dredg97

Last famous words...as the Romans used to say...'don't say cat until you have it in the bag!' (pi-iate ver inter cul)... I was not affected by the change but since the beginning I had sympathy for those whose life changed after the Government made the announcement on April 20th. Anyway, DIBP website is now updated, including the new proposal that will be introduced in the next coming months (IELTS 5, 4 years PR, etc., from July 2018). http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Citi/whats-new

This are the recommendations from the Committee led by Liberals. Have a look at the dissenting reports from Labors, Greens and NXT. They all oppose the Bill in its current form. If no amendments will come from the government and the Bill will get voted, it will be rejected (Labors+Greens+NXT have the majority). Dutton doesn't seem to be willing to amend anything. Even few amendments could not be sufficient to get the 3 votes from NXT (their position was made quite clear yesterday in the Senate). We will see what happens in the next 3 sitting dates (16-18/10). Just for your information, I recommend you to follow all Facebook groups created on opposing the Bill. They will be able to recommend what actions you can take for the time being. You will not find much sympathy in this thread unfortunately.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/09/13/greens-labor-crossbench-unite-force-governments-hand-citizenship-bill Could be interesting, let's see what happens in the next 4 sittings, if it is not voted by then, the Bill will be removed from the notice paper.

The Bill wasn't debated yesterday in the Senate, but it is listed as number 3 in the Order of the day for today. There are no amendments from the Government, the only three amendments are coming from One Nation, Liberal Democratics and Conversatives, requesting a further extension of the residency requirements (not 4 years as PR but 8 or 10). Labors, Greens and NXT are opposing the Bill in its current form, last night Lucy Gichuhi for the first time has shown concerns on the English test requirement. The Bill might be voted today, let's see what happens.

Draft legislation programme in the Senate for next week is now available: https://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/senate-week4-spring.pdf There are 8 Bills on the table, so it's not guaranteed that the highly contentious on Citizenship will be dealt with on Monday. Dutton in an interview this morning said he is confident the Bill will get through with minor changes. He may ignore the recommendations from the Senate Committee and the dissenting reports by Labors and Greens, but he will have to make more than 'minor' changes to get the three NXT votes.

During a public hearing in late August, DIPB reps said they are clearing all applications made prior to April 20th, and this will take them up to the end of the year (November-December). At that time, they will ask the Minister about how to proceed with the applications lodged after the announcement. The Bill is dead in its current form, after NXT announced its position. Dutton will need to amend it, at least watering down the English requirements and granting a transitional period. The Bill was supposed to be debated yesterday in the Senate, but it wasn't. Let's see how the government will decide to proceed.

This is definitely huge, but as the Romans used to say ('don't say cat until you have it in the bag'), it's better not getting too excited until the Bill is rejected officially in the Senate. It's just a matter of hours until the Senate Committee will issue its reports, after receiving over 10,000 submissions against the Bill VS just 2 (yes, only two) in favour. This could be another big hit to the new proposed legislation.

Absolutely, this won't be kept secret as the DIBP/Government did with the submissions received in May. It's important to include you personal situation and how you are affected by the proposed Bill.

Thank you for that, it will be interesting to see a comparison between the domestic full fee vs international fee.

Good, at least this time you have refrained from talking about terrorism attacks... Agree, it is highly contentious and far from being resolved. Truth is that hundreds of applications are currently not being processed in the interim, and that's unfair, un-Australian, illogical...

LOL...not just here, also the Government seems to be assuming that the PROPOSED changes to the Citizenship Act 2007 are already in place.

You need to get up to date, check the Budget announced in May... We are talking about University fees by the way...

PR students will pay domestic fees? Could you please provide the source of information? As far as I am aware, permanent residents and New Zealand citizens will be stopped from enrolling in Commonwealth-supported places, meaning they will have to pay full fees for degrees. They can access loans, whereas previously they had to pay upfront, but what's they point if the fees increase enormously.

Staying on PR rather than getting citizenship has several disadvantages. Do you want to study at university? From next year, as per new budget announced in May, permanent residents will pay as much as international students (i.e.$35-40K rather than $5-10K per year). Think about those families being here on PR for 1 year with 16-17 yo waiting to go to university. If the Bill will pass, they have to wait up to 3 years before having their children enrolled at university. It's true you can stay indefinitely, but things can change in the future. At the end of the day, you are still on a visa and what you are entitled to today may not be there tomorrow. Do you have to leave the country extensively for work? What if your parents in your country of origin get sick and require you to come back for a certain period of time? You might not be able to qualify for your next RRV.

Lots of speculation and a very poor last remark.... You should have reported that the Senate has referred the Bill for inquiry.

Googling it: https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen/check-if-you-can-apply

3 out of 5 years with a new Bill approved these days, migrants will have a smoother pathway for Canadian citizenship: https://www.cicnews.com/2017/06/bill-c6-passed-giving-immigrants-smoother-pathway-canadian-citizenship-069248.html

I think if the proposal had a lower bar on the English requirements (something like a IELTS 5 overall) and some sort of phase in period (as occurred when the Citizenship Act 2007 was introduced), there wouldn't be much opposition and the Bill would have passed easily. Maybe it is just my impression, but Dutton seems to be the person seeing only black or white....yes or no, so I am not sure how he will be willing to negotiate 'his' Bill and amend it to make it pass through the Senate.

Everyone agrees English is fundamental, but I honestly don't like the way it is assessed. I have met several people at work (welders, TA, electricians, scaffolders) speaking very well (8-9 in the IELTS), but would struggle to get a 6 in the writing component. Writing essays is not for everyone, they would probably fail and never become citizens. The IELTS defines a competent user a person scoring an overall 6, which is very different from asking to score 6 in each components as apparently required by the new law. The importance of each component's score makes sense for skilled visas and some specific occupations, but not for citizenship applications (a 5 overall for these would be enough in my opinion).

The Bill is finally available: http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;page=0;query=BillId%3Ar5914 Recstruct%3Abillhome There are some exemptions on the English test, other than that I am not surprised. Labor will have an official position next Tuesday.

Let's be honest, I do not agree with few aspects of the new proposal, but I understand and totally accept that the Government has the power to strengthen the process and introduce a new law. An Act can also be retrospective, even if a transitional period, as occurred in the past when the Citizenship Act 2007 was introduced, would probably be a more appropriate approach. Having said that, what is truly unacceptable is how applications after April 20th are currently managed. It is clearly stated that the applicable legislation CURRENTLY IN FORCE is the Citizenship Act 2007, see below: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2007A00020 as such, the Citizenship Act 2007 should still be applied in the interim, until the new Citizenship Act 2017 (or 2018) is enacted, no matter if it will be retroactive or not.

Please read this legal case: Raveendran and Minister for Immigration and Border Protection ( Citizenship ) [2017] AATA 653 (5 May 2017) http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2017/653.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=citizenship Considerations section, n.42-44, number 44 in particular For the sake of completeness, I note that on 20 April 2017, that is, on the day of the hearing, a joint media statement was published on the website of the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. The media statement was by the Hon. Peter Dutton MP Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull, Prime Minister, titled “Strengthening the Integrity of Australian Citizenship ”. The joint media statement provided in part as follows: In this decision, I take no account of the pending changes to the law governing Australian Citizenship . These announced alterations have not been legislated into law, nor has the date of their operation been announced.

That's what I have been trying to say yesterday... Obviously we are considering the worst case scenario in saying it's gonna take up to 2020 now, but I do hope the retrospective aspect (and yes IT IS retrospective) will be dropped during the process.

No backdating, are you serious? The new proposal was announced on April 20th, a Bill has NOT been drafted, once the Bill will pass through parliament and becomes law, it will be applied to all applications lodged after April 20th. All applications made after April 20th are currently not being processed, they are sitting in a limbo/loop/black hole and who knows when they will be processed. The current law is the Citizenship Act 2007, a new Citizenship Act 2017 or 2018 is far from being enacted and once it will, if all aspects of the proposal are kept, it will be applied retrospectively from April 20th. Are you still not seeing the backdating issue?

It is up to you whether applying or not on June 1st. If losing the fee is an issue, I would then suggest to sit back and see how things progress in the next 6 months. It is a personal choice. Those applying with current requirements are accepting the risk to lose their money, hoping a transitional period will be granted or some of the new requirements will be dropped.