Indians migrating to Australia

[Guest The Pom Queen]

People of Indian-origin have become the largest migrant group in the Australian province of Victoria for the first time in history, Australia’s national census has found. The first results of the census revealed that after 12 years of strong growth, India was the biggest source of migration to the state, beating England for the first time, Xinhua news agency reported.

Harish Budhiraja, who moved to Australia in 2005, said Indians see Victoria as accepting and multicultural. “Indians still see Australia as the land of opportunity when it comes to education, research and the standard of living,” Budhiraja was quoted as saying.

The census showed Indians were Victoria’s highest migrant group, beating England, which held top spot at the last census in 2011.

The preliminary response rate was confirmed at more than 96 per cent, a report from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) said.
Head of the Census Duncan Young, thanked Australians who submitted forms, and said every form is welcomed.

“I’d like to thank everyone who completed the Census,” Young said. “We’ve received a fantastic response from Australians which is testament to the value the community sees in the Census and the insights it generates.”

More than 58 per cent of the household forms received were submitted online. The ABS is pleased to have received 4.9 million online forms - 2.2 million more in 2016, compared to 2011. 

“Our experience in Census 2006 and 2011 was that online forms produce higher quality data and are quicker to process. This increase in online forms will allow us to release Census data more than two months sooner than in 2011,” Young said.

[Bobj]

The last 5 doctors to examine me...4 Indians, of which, one was a final year student and 1 American.

And...the last one was born in the same city as I was. So, he's ok...

Cheers, Bobj.

[starlight7]

Another bit of a worry because it is so very hard for our own people to get into medical school and it must be heartbreaking to find no job at the end of that long course.

[benj1980]

Are you telling me Australian trained doctors aren't getting jobs? 

[starlight7]

Sadly that is happening right now- hardest course to get in but it seems quite a number of graduates cannot get jobs.  Same applies to Australian law graduates. They just don't work it out when they advertise overseas.

[MARYROSE02]

I don't know if (white?) Australians are discriminated against when it comes to getting into medical schools. I imagine it's all down to your HSC results. When it comes to India, or any other country (apart from the UK) they have to have their qualifications assessed before they can practice medicine and may have to study in Australia. I was reading in the Sydney Morning Herald about an Iraqi who is sitting the HSC at 50 years old, as part of his (re) training to become a doctor, which he was in Iraq.

On Friday going to work in Parramatta my train stopped abruptly at Granville. Someone had jumped or fallen beneath a train I think. We were stuck there for an hour - good exposure therapy for my fear of crowds! The train stopped at Harris Park and I walked to Parramatta from there and found out that Harris Park is "Little India" with a street full of restaurants, cafes and businesses. I shall go back and check out some of the restaurants.

I work with lots of Indians, lots of everybody in fact, India, Philippines, Vietnam, Korea.

[benj1980]

There's only a limited amount of training schools in Australia, is it that there are not enough Junior doctor positions available and that the overseas doctors that are recruited are specialists?

[ssiri]

As far as I know (and I don't see why this would have become less exacting with time) if you are not qualified from a reputable University/accredited by a world recognised training body for professional services such as Doctoring, Accounting Engineering etc, you have to study and qualify to Oz standards.

So even if you come from the UK, US, and Europe if it's not a qualification of good standing, you have to retrain.

On that basis Indian qualified doctors too I'd expect have to go through such rigorous selection.

So the question for me would be, why are the Oz doctors being overlooked if they are so good, and most importantly available (whilst the majority of overseas doctors re-qualify/re train)?


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[ssiri]

People of Indian-origin have become the largest migrant group in the Australian province of Victoria for the first time in history, Australia’s national census has found. The first results of the census revealed that after 12 years of strong growth, India was the biggest source of migration to the state, beating England for the first time, Xinhua news agency reported.
Harish Budhiraja, who moved to Australia in 2005, said Indians see Victoria as accepting and multicultural. “Indians still see Australia as the land of opportunity when it comes to education, research and the standard of living,” Budhiraja was quoted as saying.
The census showed Indians were Victoria’s highest migrant group, beating England, which held top spot at the last census in 2011.
The preliminary response rate was confirmed at more than 96 per cent, a report from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) said.
Head of the Census Duncan Young, thanked Australians who submitted forms, and said every form is welcomed.
“I’d like to thank everyone who completed the Census,” Young said. “We’ve received a fantastic response from Australians which is testament to the value the community sees in the Census and the insights it generates.”
More than 58 per cent of the household forms received were submitted online. The ABS is pleased to have received 4.9 million online forms - 2.2 million more in 2016, compared to 2011. 
“Our experience in Census 2006 and 2011 was that online forms produce higher quality data and are quicker to process. This increase in online forms will allow us to release Census data more than two months sooner than in 2011,” Young said.

I'd imagine this is down to TMs immigration policy towards non-EU countries. It's harder for non-EU students and or families to get visas- lots more criteria and requirements. The fact that Indians see Oz, with its strict visa and immigration criteria as more attractive, says a lot.....


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[Perthbum]

On 2017-6-5 at 12:55, starlight7 said:

Another bit of a worry because it is so very hard for our own people to get into medical school and it must be heartbreaking to find no job at the end of that long course.

This is what fuels divide in our communities. Once they have been accepted into Oz they are YOUR people.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Perthbum

[Toots]

My GP is Indian and my next door neighbour also a GP is Indian.

[NickyNook]

There's definitely an over-supply of doctors in nice, coastal areas but a severe shortage in outback areas and country towns.

I believe that migrant doctors are encouraged to move to areas which have a shortage by only giving them Medicare Provider numbers if they do. No Medicare Provider number, no patients.

I know of a NSW country town who have a doctor in town for the first time in many years. He happens to be an Indian migrant, and the residents are enormously grateful for him.

[benj1980]

If you work in outback or country towns how easy is it to get back into metro areas after a period of time? Out of sight, out of mind. Teachers used to be looked favourably if they had worked in the country/outback but this isn't quite the case anymore. So I'm not surprised the supply in coastal areas isn't bigger, I wouldn't spend x amount of years training to live in the outback for the rest of my life!

[NickyNook]

27 minutes ago, benj1980 said:

If you work in outback or country towns how easy is it to get back into metro areas after a period of time? Out of sight, out of mind. Teachers used to be looked favourably if they had worked in the country/outback but this isn't quite the case anymore. So I'm not surprised the supply in coastal areas isn't bigger, I wouldn't spend x amount of years training to live in the outback for the rest of my life!

I'm no expert but I seem to recall that mostly they have to stay away from Metro regions for up to 10 years. I think the more remote the workplace is, the shorter the time required to work there. So a doctor moving to Boulia in outback Queensland might only have to stay for five years, whereas a doctor moving to Gympie might need to be there for 10 years before they're allowed to practise somewhere more desirable. 

[Perthbum]

On 2017-6-5 at 12:55, starlight7 said:

Another bit of a worry because it is so very hard for our own people to get into medical school and it must be heartbreaking to find no job at the end of that long course.

Also that is what indigenous Australians say about poms taking all the jobs.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Perthbum

[Bobj]

3 hours ago, Perthbum said:

Also that is what indigenous Australians say about poms taking all the jobs.

A good friend of mine was the yard boss for the Main Roads Dept in Kununurra, WA and hired and fired the staff. He was confronted by the Aboriginal Welfare bloke for not hiring a full blood Aboriginal chappie. My mate showed him the recruitment ledger, pointing to the person concerned...Hired and fired 26 times!! Mainly for being lazy. Incidentally, the person concerned was the son of one of the most respected Elders in the district, a spokesperson for indigenous people in the Kimberley Region.

My mate? From Sarfend...

Cheers, Bobj.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Bobj
adding

[starlight7]

If someone has trained in Australia at an Australian university and paid the exorbitant fees here then of course they should have priority over a similarly qualified person who has applied for the same job from overseas and trained overseas. Absolutely nothing to do with any prejudice ( which seems to be always in the mind of some for reasons best known to themselves). Same applies to any other country and any other person trained within that country. If you are a British trained doctor and apply for a job in a British hospital you should certainly be given preference over an overseas trained person with the same quals.  If you are an Indian doctor trained in India then you should be given preferential treatment over a similarly qualified person from Australia, Britain, China, Indonesia or whatever. Have to consider your own country just once in a while.

[starlight7]

18 hours ago, Bobj said:

A good friend of mine was the yard boss for the Main Roads Dept in Kununurra, WA and hired and fired the staff. He was confronted by the Aboriginal Welfare bloke for not hiring a full blood Aboriginal chappie. My mate showed him the recruitment ledger, pointing to the person concerned...Hired and fired 26 times!! Mainly for being lazy. Incidentally, the person concerned was the son of one of the most respected Elders in the district, a spokesperson for indigenous people in the Kimberley Region.

My mate? From Sarfend...

Cheers, Bobj.

The elephant in the room? Should always be the best man for the job wherever they come from but that is not always allowed these days.

[ScottieGirl]

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 12:22, benj1980 said:

If you work in outback or country towns how easy is it to get back into metro areas after a period of time? Out of sight, out of mind. Teachers used to be looked favourably if they had worked in the country/outback but this isn't quite the case anymore. So I'm not surprised the supply in coastal areas isn't bigger, I wouldn't spend x amount of years training to live in the outback for the rest of my life!

I thought it was a 2 year period for doctors but the rules change all the time. The bigger issue would be finding a job in the metro area. There is no shortage of GPs, not surprising as the medical system is world class and the lifestyle is great.

[benj1980]

Just read there is a 40,000 nurse shortage in the UK, I understand the politics behind this. Maybe more will be looking East instead of West? I know we have gone off topic but what I would say is the Indians that I have met in Australia have been and are awesome. Real family people and take pride in their work, I get that they don't always get the rub of the green that Poms may get in terms of job opportunities (unless they're doctors!) but I'd rather have a family with this type of attitude and ethos live next to me than most others that you see around.

[ssiri]

If someone has trained in Australia at an Australian university and paid the exorbitant fees here then of course they should have priority over a similarly qualified person who has applied for the same job from overseas and trained overseas. Absolutely nothing to do with any prejudice ( which seems to be always in the mind of some for reasons best known to themselves). Same applies to any other country and any other person trained within that country. If you are a British trained doctor and apply for a job in a British hospital you should certainly be given preference over an overseas trained person with the same quals.  If you are an Indian doctor trained in India then you should be given preferential treatment over a similarly qualified person from Australia, Britain, China, Indonesia or whatever. Have to consider your own country just once in a while.

 

 

It may also come down to experience, reputation and skills in the role, not just a piece of paper (assuming the piece of paper is from a highly regarded professional body).

 

If a world leading cancer/heart specialist sought work in any country other than their own for some reason. For example a British, Aussie, South African, Indian doctor etc, eminently respected in their field wanted to emigrate somewhere else, I'd be surprised if the country that specialist wanted to move to would turn the Doc down on the basis of 'Our nationals first'.

 

A policy/decision maker/ immigration officer who turns down the opportunity to improve healthcare in their own country because of some jingoistic bureaucratic 'nationals first' policy is not seeing the wood for the trees.

 

 

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[starlight7]

Note the word 'similarly'- not talking about specialists/experts who have the skills we need. 

[ssiri]

Note the word 'similarly'- not talking about specialists/experts who have the skills we need. 

Ok. Which begs the question why are they being overlooked? I don't think it's a wages/salary/economic issue based on how much more productive the economy is here and how competitive salaries are here (hands down compared to the UK - it was a shocking difference, I found out - so much better here.

So cutting costs/cheaper labour from abroad isn't likely to be the issue here. Besides the economy here is relatively healthy and productivity good


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[benj1980]

So what is it?

[Johndoe]

On 23/06/2017 at 10:41, ssiri said:

 

 

It may also come down to experience, reputation and skills in the role, not just a piece of paper (assuming the piece of paper is from a highly regarded professional body).

 

If a world leading cancer/heart specialist sought work in any country other than their own for some reason. For example a British, Aussie, South African, Indian doctor etc, eminently respected in their field wanted to emigrate somewhere else, I'd be surprised if the country that specialist wanted to move to would turn the Doc down on the basis of 'Our nationals first'.

 

A policy/decision maker/ immigration officer who turns down the opportunity to improve healthcare in their own country because of some jingoistic bureaucratic 'nationals first' policy is not seeing the wood for the trees.

 

 

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First Para "experience, reputation and skills in the role" "not just a piece of paper " But isn't the former only qualified by the latter? At the risk of once again the racist card being thrown, it is clearly documented that many examples of "paper qualified, from highly regarded professional bodies" from certain countries have subsequently proven to be falsified, or those "highly regarded" have only been such in their own countries..................and we know how highly regarded any quack would be in a peasant village, and how some of them work to build that "reputation", do we not? In any country, not highly regarded for it's health service to the poor, compliments may abound for anyone offering the minimum of service to that poor.

Taking at "face value" a highly regarded qualification in one country (especially those countries noted for corruption,nepotism, and service only to those who can pay) irrespective of the standards for those qualifications meeting Australian standards, is totally inept. A plumber/gas fitter, carpenter. mechanic et al has to jump through hoops to show that they meet Oz standards........................does a doctor?...............invariably no!.............they are accepted on the strength of that "bit of paper"

It is also well documented that many cases of malpractice, incompetence and even sexual abuse, have been perpetrated by those "well documented"

One only has to google to see how many so called "highly respected" doctors from ???????????????countries have been accused and convicted of malpractice.

My apologies to those who think that I am generalising here on a particular race, but I am not. I just think that if a "bit of paper" is not good enough for a plumber, then it is not good enough for a doctor.