Possible moving back to UK after 40 years in OZ

[Margie]

Hi folks...can you help!!

 

my partner and I are contemplating a move back to UK. As mentioned, we have been in OZ for a long

time. We were born in UK and worked until age 21 when we migrated. Want to go back to be with family and to live somewhere quiet to do permaculture.

We both are dual citizens of OZ and UK. We have been naturalised as Aussies and hold OZ and

UK passports.

Q. What if any benefits, would we be entitled to if we return to UK. We are both near retirement age

so would we get any form of pension, NHS benefits etc. - so we can weigh up our options.

 

We would be as self sufficient as possible, that is, buying our home in UK, maybe a part time job (if thats

at all possible) and trying not to be a burden on the UK.

 

I am sure there are websites or Govt bodies we could search, but we are not familiar with any of this.

 

Any help and assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

Margie.

[Gbye grey sky]

Margie. @Marisawright is something of a specialist in this area though is in the UK so will be sleeping right now.

 

You may be entitled to some state pension as your Aussie working years (up to 1999 I think) may qualify but not the full pension. Do you both have Super?

[Guest]

I doubt you'd have any pension apart from what you bring with you. There is an eligibility section there https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/overview

 

And from elsewhere re UK state pensions

 

To be eligible for a UK state pension, you need to have been employed or self-employed in the UK and/or have made National Insurance Contributions for a certain minimum number of years (which could include voluntary contributions or time spent in child care).

 

These years of National Insurance contributions are referred to as “qualifying years”. Depending on your age, the number of years that you need to qualify for a minimum pension will vary. There are three main groups of pensioners.

 

To see where you stand with regard to your pension, place yourself in one of three categories that may apply:

 

1) Men born before 6th April 1945 and women born before 6th April 1950

 

These people reached pension age (65 for a man and 60 for a woman) before 6th April 2010. A man needs a minimum of 11 years National Insurance contributions and a woman needs a minimum of 10 years National Insurance contributions to get any pension at all. At this late stage, just one voluntary payment can be made to top-up your pension contributions to meet the minimum, and only if you reach pension age in 2009/10.

 

2) Men born on or after 6th April 1945 and before 6th April 1951. Women born on or after 6th April 1950 and before 6th April 1953

 

Men in this group reach pension age at 65. Women reach pension age somewhere between 60 and 63 (as the pension age is steadily rising to match that for men). People in this group get some pension for every year of National Insurance contributions. A full pension requires 30 years’ contributions, and one year gets 1/30th of a full pension which currently stands at £113 per week. Between two and seven voluntary contributions can be made to top-up your contributions depending on your pension date.

 

3) Men born on or after 6th April 1951 and women born on or after 6th April 1953

 

The pension age for men in this age group is steadily increasing, starting at 65 for men and 63 for women.

 

NHS would be accessible although I suspect you will need to either dig out your old NHS number or apply for a new one and get yourselves in to the system. Find a decent GP to register with and hopefully you'll also be in a good area for local NHS trust and hospitals.

 

 

Anything else would need to be determind once you have passed the habitual residence test https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/the-habitual-residence-test-an-introduction/what-is-the-habitual-residence-test/

 

After so long out of the UK it'll be like starting over again there in many respects for access to NHS and other things. Its all doable, just takes a bit of research and working out and keeping in mind you might not be entitled to much as you've been in Aus for 40 years.

[Guest]

If you get your Australian age pension up and running before you go you can take it with you can't claim the Australian pension from the UK though.

[Guest Dave53]

If you get your Australian age pension up and running before you go you can take it with you can't claim the Australian pension from the UK though.

 

This is very interesting topic , and I will be following this one closely as it may relate to my situation too ..

As I understand it , the Aussie aged pension will only be paid in full for a period of 6 months if no longer residing in Australia , after that a reduced amount is paid ... I could be mistaken , however , I think I read it somewhere on this site .... Confirmation would be appreciated .

 

Dave C

[Guest]

I believe it is reduced but not sure by how much and i do believe it doesn't get any of the usual increases either. I'm sure someone with more knowledge on this will be able to give some more information in due course.

[flag of convenience]

One needs to be resident at time of claiming in Australia. I seem to recall a year prior to but must refresh on that. There is no pension agreement with UK, but is with a host of other European countries as well as some Asian ones.

 

I believe the pension declines for those taking up domicile in Asia. Like Thailand or Bali for example. But for Europe, hadn't heard that. The goal posts keep changing though. Length of stay in Australia was recently increased substantially to gain full pension.

 

One would assume the government would be only too happy to pay out the meagre payment called a pension, and get rid of aged folk, saving future medical expenses and the rest. Extraordinary policy.

[amibovered]

One needs to be resident at time of claiming in Australia. I seem to recall a year prior to but must refresh on that. There is no pension agreement with UK, but is with a host of other European countries as well as some Asian ones.

 

I believe the pension declines for those taking up domicile in Asia. Like Thailand or Bali for example. But for Europe, hadn't heard that. The goal posts keep changing though. Length of stay in Australia was recently increased substantially to gain full pension.

One would assume the government would be only too happy to pay out the meagre payment called a pension, and get rid of aged folk, saving future medical expenses and the rest. Extraordinary policy.

 

Interesting point, I read the other day that the U.K government is thinking of unfreezing the pensions of UK expat pensioners because so many are having to return home because of the decline in their pensions over the years, and the extra cost of them returning to the U.K outweighs the cost of increasing the pensions.

[bristolman]

To the OP, you will be eligible for full NHS treatment when you get back. Just register with a GP as soon as you are able and they will sort everything for you or at least they did for us. It's easy and painless.

[amibovered]

It used to be, and still is as far as I'm aware that the years that you lived in Australia up to March 2000 count towards a U.K pension, might be worth looking into.

[Guest]

Interesting point, I read the other day that the U.K government is thinking of unfreezing the pensions of UK expat pensioners because so many are having to return home because of the decline in their pensions over the years, and the extra cost of them returning to the U.K outweighs the cost of increasing the pensions.

I believe this particular reason is why the agreement between the UK and Australia in regards to pension broke down because of the freezing of expat pensions. If this was to change the agreement between both could be reinstated.

[Chortlepuss]

Interesting point, I read the other day that the U.K government is thinking of unfreezing the pensions of UK expat pensioners because so many are having to return home because of the decline in their pensions over the years, and the extra cost of them returning to the U.K outweighs the cost of increasing the pensions.

About time! Outrageous that they're frozen when we've contributed with UK taxes and are not a local burden on services....

[scuffythetugboat]

I doubt you'd have any pension apart from what you bring with you. There is an eligibility section there https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/overview

 

 

 

NHS would be accessible although I suspect you will need to either dig out your old NHS number or apply for a new one and get yourselves in to the system. Find a decent GP to register with and hopefully you'll also be in a good area for local NHS trust and hospitals.

 

 

 

Anything else would need to be determind once you have passed the habitual residence test https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/the-habitual-residence-test-an-introduction/what-is-the-habitual-residence-test/

 

After so long out of the UK it'll be like starting over again there in many respects for access to NHS and other things. Its all doable, just takes a bit of research and working out and keeping in mind you might not be entitled to much as you've been in Aus for 40 years.

 

As we all have different circumstances it is better that each one of us makes our own enquiries by contacting the Future Pension Centre in the UK in writing.

 

I have a letter dated 23 April 2015 which states:

 

If you now live in the UK, any time you (or your husband, wife or civil partner if you are using their UK National Insurance (NI) contributions) lived in Australia, up to 5

April 2001, can be treated as a period for which UK NI contributions were paid.

 

So the OP would be entitled to 25 or 26 years of pension out of the 35 years required for the full pension. The OP could probably add more contributions once they arrive in the UK.

[Marisawright]

@Margie - I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I have just been through the same process myself!

 

Assuming you've been in Australia exactly 40 years, that makes you 61.

 

Australian Pension

 

Just to be clear, we're talking about the government pension here, not superannuation (see further down).

 

To get your Australian pension, you'll need to stay in Australia until the day you reach pension age, then you go into Centrelink to claim it, and you can then go anywhere in the world and continue to get paid. It would be reduced if you'd been resident for less than 35 years, but that won't apply to you.

 

If you leave Australia before you reach pension age, then the only way you can claim is to move back to Australia when you reach pension age and stay for TWO FULL YEARS. If you leave the country before the two years is up, your pension will be stopped.

 

Two other alternatives - (1) pray that Australia and the UK manage to sign an agreement to allow pensions to be paid (we've been waiting since 2001!) or (2) move to Spain, Italy, Malta or France instead where you can claim your Aussie pension no problem at all.

 

British Pension

 

To get a UK pension, you must have paid at least two years' NI contributions (if you're planning to continue working, you'll be able to do that easily). Then, how much you get depends how many years' contributions you have made. You can submit a claim to have your Australian work record recognised towards it, so bring evidence of your Australian work record with you. Unfortunately they will only credit years before 2001, but it will help!

 

If you are still short of years to qualify for the full pension, then you can make voluntary contributions and as you're so close to retirement age, it would probably be worth it - unlike the Aussie pension, the UK pension is NOT means tested so you'd start receiving it the moment you reach pension age. Your best idea is to request a pension forecast ASAP:

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-statement

 

- but you'll have to wait till you're resident in the UK to claim your Australian work years.

 

Superannuation

 

If you leave your lump sum in your super and transfer it to a British account AFTER you've arrived in the UK, you could get slugged a scarey amount for tax. However, if you take your lump sum BEFORE you leave and just put it in the bank, then it's just savings and you can transfer it without being liable for any tax. If you decide to do that, I would use a service like Moneycorp to do the transaction instead of letting your bank do it - it will save you a LOT of money in commissions and fees (join through PomsinOz to get a fee-free account).

 

If you don't want to take a lump sum and prefer to convert your super to a pension, the bad news is that it won't get tax-free treatment in the UK like it would in Australia. You'll have to declare your super pension as income on your British tax return and pay tax on it (though you do get a tax-free threshold just like in Australia). That could make quite a difference to what your income would be in retirement.

 

Banking and Credit

 

This is a huge headache.

 

You cannot open a UK account from Australia, it's impossible. Even when you get to the UK, no bank will look at you until you can show them proof of a UK residential address - which means you can't even apply until you've found a place to live AND received your first electricity, water or phone bills. Even then, you can't open an account at the counter, so allow a week's wait for an appointment and two weeks for the account to be available for use. So don't close your Australian bank accounts, you'll need to go on using them (with your ATM cards) for at least a month. If you need a credit card, then you'll need to keep using your Australian credit cards for at least a year.

 

A cheat which would speed things up - if you have relatives in the UK, change your postal address for your Australian bank accounts and credit cards to their address before you go - then you'll have some bank and credit card statements waiting for you when you arrive, and can use that as proof of address (just don't let slip to the bank that it's not going to be your permanent address!!).

 

Even once you've got proof of address, you'll only be able to open the most basic account, with no overdraft and no credit card, because you have zero credit rating. Some banks will not even give you a debit card (Barclays will so they're your best bet - they will also give you a credit card earlier than most). You won't be able to get a mortgage or any personal loans, except from loan sharks.

 

The silly thing is that you can't even GET a credit rating until you've incurred some kind of debt - which you can't do because you have no credit rating. The only way to do it is to apply for a high-interest credit card designed specially for people with a bad credit rating, then use it at least once a month and pay it off on time every month. After about a year, you'll have a good enough rating to get a mortgage or bank loan.

[ramot]

Interesting point, I read the other day that the U.K government is thinking of unfreezing the pensions of UK expat pensioners because so many are having to return home because of the decline in their pensions over the years, and the extra cost of them returning to the U.K outweighs the cost of increasing the pensions.

 

Where did you read this? Don't dare hope!!

[amibovered]

 

Where did you read this? Don't dare hope!!

a newspaper article, the Telegraph, 4th of December.

[Marisawright]

a newspaper article, the Telegraph, 4th of December.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/12031851/British-pension-is-paltry-but-theres-hope-for-those-with-frozen-payments.html

[miw54]

It used to be, and still is as far as I'm aware that the years that you lived in Australia up to March 2000 count towards a U.K pension, might be worth looking into.

 

Yes - its true, my years in Oz up to this date were counted towards my UK pension. All you have to do is provide evidence of this from work and from someone who will verify that you were living there. Also, we did pay some additional contributions for a few years shortfall that we had. We are now entitled to the full pension.

[Celt Down Under]

Yes - its true, my years in Oz up to this date were counted towards my UK pension. All you have to do is provide evidence of this from work and from someone who will verify that you were living there. Also, we did pay some additional contributions for a few years shortfall that we had. We are now entitled to the full pension.

Not sure if I am understanding this correctly. I am claiming a UK pension , and get 16/30ths of it for the 16 years that I was employed prior to emigrating in 1981. So, if I now provide evidence that I was employed full time in Australia between 1981 and 2001, my pension would then increase? Where does that fit in around the private company pension that I am also claiming from a U.K. company?

[Marisawright]

Not sure if I am understanding this correctly. I am claiming a UK pension , and get 16/30ths of it for the 16 years that I was employed prior to emigrating in 1981. So, if I now provide evidence that I was employed full time in Australia between 1981 and 2001, my pension would then increase?

 

Only if you are legally resident in the UK. Assuming you're still in Australia, you can't claim it.

[miw54]

Yes. As long as you are living in the UK you can claim for those years too. You will need to fill out a form provided by the Pension Service (email: tvp.internationalqueries@thepensionservice.gsi.gov.uk). We had our group certificates and a letter from a relative and friend confirming that we had lived out there during the years we were claiming for. I also have a private pension but that does not matter. If you are resident in the UK the basic state pension is not means tested. Hope this helps.

[Petals]

If you get in touch with the Pension people you can top up your contributions that is what we did. We got the UK pension paid here and I still get a UK pension paid to me as a widow. Need to be very careful not to lose your Centrelink entitlements by leaving the country prior to your retirement age. Need to be here in Aus to get the pension, that is both of you. My friend's brother was living retired in Fiji and he was getting the Centrelink pension but they found out that his wife would not get the pension if he died so they returned to live in Australia as she needs to be here at retirement age for her to get her pension.

 

The British basic pension is not that much I would not want to live in UK on it.

 

Going back after so many years is a problem.

 

I remember my Mum and Dad thinking they would go back and they went for a three month holiday and lasted 3 weeks and returned to Aus.

 

You could look at NZ if you want permaculture but then its not all rosey living there as a pensioner either.

[Marisawright]

Yes. As long as you are living in the UK you can claim for those years too. You will need to fill out a form provided by the Pension Service (email: tvp.internationalqueries@thepensionservice.gsi.gov.uk). We had our group certificates and a letter from a relative and friend confirming that we had lived out there during the years we were claiming for. I also have a private pension but that does not matter. If you are resident in the UK the basic state pension is not means tested. Hope this helps.

 

The person who asked was living in Australia - so just highlighting that you MUST be living in the UK to claim those years. Also, if you claim them while you're in the UK and decide to come back to Australia or move elsewhere, you'll lose the extra years.

 

I knew someone who got a nasty surprise, they went back to the UK but missed the warmer weather so decided to move to Spain instead. They got a shock when their pensions were slashed - they had assumed that, having claimed the extra years while in the UK, they'd go on getting credit for them, but no. If you leave the UK permanently you lose it.

[scuffythetugboat]

Here's an update. For anyone that returns to the UK to live permanently, and they are being paid a benefit or an Australian pension, then they may not be able to use the time spent in Australia before 2001 to increase the UK pension. Whilst you reside in Australia the former Agreement cannot assist you. The DWP are waiting on confirmation that the Agreement can assist UK residents who retire after 6th April 2016.

[Marisawright]

Here's an update. For anyone that returns to the UK to live permanently, and they are being paid a benefit or an Australian pension, then they may not be able to use the time spent in Australia before 2001 to increase the UK pension. Whilst you reside in Australia the former Agreement cannot assist you. The DWP are waiting on confirmation that the Agreement can assist UK residents who retire after 6th April 2016.

 

Good point about not being able to claim the extra years if you're already getting an Aussie pension - it only makes sense since you shouldn't be able to claim the same work years for two different pensions.

 

Can you give a bit more detail about the agreement assisting UK residents retiring after April 16? Why would it not?