Jeremy Corbyn, thoughts?

[Skyba]

Yes you can assume that, because I said "in a generation" which is commonly deemed to be 30 years, not 70 years.

 

And goodness why don't you lefties change the broken record, the Tories have precided over the welfare state and the NhS for longer than Labour and it is still here isn't it, bigger than ever. I really think people are finally starting to see through this scaremongering, it seems to be the only line of argument Labour have these days. Pathetic. Have you thought about challenging policies they do have, rather than made up ones.

 

 

Mouse you may want to speak to the thousands of disabled people who are £4k a year worse off since the Tories cuts and all the NHS staff who are being overworked and underpaid before you make statements like this. The NHS will be gone before long under this lot and the welfare state has been taken back to its bare bones while the sick and vulnerable take the brunt of the pain without the ability to fight back osbourne is selling off parts of the public sector in his own billionaire only version of poundland

 

and before you say that the welfare bill is bigger so that must mean it's doing a better job. It's bigger because there are more people who need it (the Tories fault) that doesn't mean it's doing its job properly. The bit the Tories don't understand is just making the employment figures look better by spreading the £1m that used to be paid to 1000 people between 10,000 people on zero hour contracts does not actual fix the problems, more people in work than before yes but less people paying tax and being able to use those jobs to pay for essentials

Edited August 5, 2015 by Skyba

[BacktoDemocracy]

Yes you can assume that, because I said "in a generation" which is commonly deemed to be 30 years, not 70 years.

 

And goodness why don't you lefties change the broken record, the Tories have precided over the welfare state and the NhS for longer than Labour and it is still here isn't it, bigger than ever. I really think people are finally starting to see through this scaremongering, it seems to be the only line of argument Labour have these days. Pathetic. Have you thought about challenging policies they do have, rather than made up ones.

What like starting to privatise the whole education system, what about telling hospitals not to replace non essential staff and to consider whether they stick to guidelines on nursing ratios, what are actually non essential staff in a hospital, the cleaners, the porters, the clerical staff, I suppose they are, it just means nursing staff do it instead, welcome to the UK in the 21st C, my wifes Lithuanian volunteer at her hospital goes home to Lithuania for medical treatment and for free drugs, can you believe it, she works at a nhs hospital and gets on a plane back home because she has had such bad treatment in the UK and has to pay so much for prescribed drugs.

[Skyba]

What like starting to privatise the whole education system, what about telling hospitals not to replace non essential staff and to consider whether they stick to guidelines on nursing ratios, what are actually non essential staff in a hospital, the cleaners, the porters, the clerical staff, I suppose they are, it just means nursing staff do it instead, welcome to the UK in the 21st C, my wifes Lithuanian volunteer at her hospital goes home to Lithuania for medical treatment and for free drugs, can you believe it, she works at a nhs hospital and gets on a plane back home because she has had such bad treatment in the UK and has to pay so much for prescribed drugs.

 

 

 

it's all a myth, Drs and nurses are all liars and they sit around all day drinking tea on seats made from all the spare £50 notes the NHS has because of the generous Tories

[j19jjr]

I leave for Oz next week and am currently doing the goodbye rounds in Scotland as we speak so forgive me if this is more than confusing (too many alcohol induced lunches/dinners). The English cannot vote for the SNP so could have voted Labour, UKIP won how many seats at the election??? I am neither elitist, selfish or greedy and certainly not an Etonian tosser, don't even think they would give a working class Dundonian like me any time whatsoever, have a father who could outdo Stalin on his communist views, BUT along with my husband, having worked bloody hard to start up and then run successfully 2 companies ( where all employees are paid more than double the minimum/living wage) I could not and would not vote for Labour who are hell bent on believing that all private companies that do well, are the scourge of the country. My husband whilst building up his companies, supplemented his non income by going cabbing every evening, and when he was at home I was going to college/night school to learn how to do his accounts, this went on for 4 years. Are we now happy to hand over 50% or more of our profits to fund the country, when we sacrificed so so much, not on your nelly. Yes there are large companies that are able to avoid paying large tax bills, but this has happened under both governments because they realise the implications of scrapping the tax loopholes. And still the left wing go on about the bankers, I have watched several adverts in the last 24 hours that would reduce my utility bills alone, BT and Sky spring to mind straight away. Why do we think its ok to pay "celebrities" huge amounts of money to advertise a service that we need or want when we cannot/should not pay bonuses to people that have generated business/money for this country? My dad still insists that Thatcher is today responsible for the lack of social housing in the whole of the country, but cannot seem to grasp that the Left Wing held power for 10 years in which this could have been over turned!!

[BacktoDemocracy]

Yes you can assume that, because I said "in a generation" which is commonly deemed to be 30 years, not 70 years.

 

And goodness why don't you lefties change the broken record, the Tories have precided over the welfare state and the NhS for longer than Labour and it is still here isn't it, bigger than ever. I really think people are finally starting to see through this scaremongering, it seems to be the only line of argument Labour have these days. Pathetic. Have you thought about challenging policies they do have, rather than made up ones.

 

could we try this as a test as to whether being right wing is about self interest or not:-

at the election approx 11,350,000 voted conservative, in the last couple of days the chancellor, George Osbourne, started to sell Royal Bank of Scotland shares which were bought by the Govt to prevent RBS from going bankrupt, they were bought on avg at 5 pounds a pop, he has sold them at approx 3.30 pounds a pop on the basis that the banks should be in the hands of the shyster private sector( quite apart that 40% were bought by US investors) despite it costing the country 1000,000,000, and there are still further sales to be announced which will be at a further deficit figure.

Now I think it is only fair that all those who support the market doctrine of the Conservatives should pay a levy to make up the loss to the cash strapped UK economy and to show how much they support Right Wing ideology, according to my Left Wing calculator that works out that every Conservative voter should pay 88.10pounds to show solidarity with the Conservative view of the world, which is that private ownership is infinitely better than public ownership, even when it incurs a loss to achieve it, and to continue with that level of payments for each loss made on the sale of the bank shares including the losses on the sale of Loyds shares.

Can I make a prophesy that there would not be a Conservative voter to be found in the whole of the UK if such a requirement was made, that is how much people believe in Conservatism, fine whilst ever it is putting money in their pockets but not when it comes to underwriting the principles on which it supposedly built.

Does it occur to anyone with some knowledge of the world to work out that Georges friends picking up bargain basement banks might think that George is a good egg and that he might just benefit from a few directorships in the coming years along with all of his placemen.

Edited August 6, 2015 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

I leave for Oz next week and am currently doing the goodbye rounds in Scotland as we speak so forgive me if this is more than confusing (too many alcohol induced lunches/dinners). The English cannot vote for the SNP so could have voted Labour, UKIP won how many seats at the election??? I am neither elitist, selfish or greedy and certainly not an Etonian tosser, don't even think they would give a working class Dundonian like me any time whatsoever, have a father who could outdo Stalin on his communist views, BUT along with my husband, having worked bloody hard to start up and then run successfully 2 companies ( where all employees are paid more than double the minimum/living wage) I could not and would not vote for Labour who are hell bent on believing that all private companies that do well, are the scourge of the country. My husband whilst building up his companies, supplemented his non income by going cabbing every evening, and when he was at home I was going to college/night school to learn how to do his accounts, this went on for 4 years. Are we now happy to hand over 50% or more of our profits to fund the country, when we sacrificed so so much, not on your nelly. Yes there are large companies that are able to avoid paying large tax bills, but this has happened under both governments because they realise the implications of scrapping the tax loopholes. And still the left wing go on about the bankers, I have watched several adverts in the last 24 hours that would reduce my utility bills alone, BT and Sky spring to mind straight away. Why do we think its ok to pay "celebrities" huge amounts of money to advertise a service that we need or want when we cannot/should not pay bonuses to people that have generated business/money for this country? My dad still insists that Thatcher is today responsible for the lack of social housing in the whole of the country, but cannot seem to grasp that the Left Wing held power for 10 years in which this could have been over turned!!

 

Have you considered that maybe your dad is right, anyway you will be a shoe in for Australia.

[bristolman]

What like starting to privatise the whole education system, what about telling hospitals not to replace non essential staff and to consider whether they stick to guidelines on nursing ratios, what are actually non essential staff in a hospital, the cleaners, the porters, the clerical staff, I suppose they are, it just means nursing staff do it instead, welcome to the UK in the 21st C, my wifes Lithuanian volunteer at her hospital goes home to Lithuania for medical treatment and for free drugs, can you believe it, she works at a nhs hospital and gets on a plane back home because she has had such bad treatment in the UK and has to pay so much for prescribed drugs.

 

Not replace non essential staff, perhaps there is a clue there We have had fantastic service from the NHS BUT had several very bad experiences in Australia. I tend to think they were individual examples and not indicative of the whole system.

[flag of convenience]

I'm sorry but you must be dillusional if you honestly think this will without doubt keep labour out. It will win back the Scottish and it will bring an entire generation back into politics who feel that they aren't being represented by politics.

 

An honest politician!! Oh how the right would hate for this to happen, someone who isn't going to rip off the country and sell of its assets, you have the right banging on about brown and the gold reserves and Osborne just stitched the country up to the tune of £1bn when selling RBS to his buddies!!

 

The Right would be running scared if a politician of fortitude and honesty, compassion and integrity was anywhere close to winning the trust of the voting public. That includes both sides of politics. The public have rightly lost interest on all mainstream politics on offer over recent decades. It has all too little to do with their lives.

 

I am watching Corbyn now with great interest, not a firmed supporter but live in hope someone may yet take the bit between the teeth and present policy relevant to people.

[bristolman]

Dennis Lenin Skinner?

 

Labour will never win another election.

 

Well fingers crossed lol

[caramac]

Not replace non essential staff, perhaps there is a clue there We have had fantastic service from the NHS BUT had several very bad experiences in Australia. I tend to think they were individual examples and not indicative of the whole system.

 

Who are the non essential staff? Cleaners? Clerical staff? Porters? That was the question.

[bristolman]

Who are the non essential staff? Cleaners? Clerical staff? Porters? That was the question.

 

Non essential are probably paper pushers, non productive staff. Cleaners and porters are essential staff.

[flag of convenience]

I leave for Oz next week and am currently doing the goodbye rounds in Scotland as we speak so forgive me if this is more than confusing (too many alcohol induced lunches/dinners). The English cannot vote for the SNP so could have voted Labour, UKIP won how many seats at the election??? I am neither elitist, selfish or greedy and certainly not an Etonian tosser, don't even think they would give a working class Dundonian like me any time whatsoever, have a father who could outdo Stalin on his communist views, BUT along with my husband, having worked bloody hard to start up and then run successfully 2 companies ( where all employees are paid more than double the minimum/living wage) I could not and would not vote for Labour who are hell bent on believing that all private companies that do well, are the scourge of the country. My husband whilst building up his companies, supplemented his non income by going cabbing every evening, and when he was at home I was going to college/night school to learn how to do his accounts, this went on for 4 years. Are we now happy to hand over 50% or more of our profits to fund the country, when we sacrificed so so much, not on your nelly. Yes there are large companies that are able to avoid paying large tax bills, but this has happened under both governments because they realise the implications of scrapping the tax loopholes. And still the left wing go on about the bankers, I have watched several adverts in the last 24 hours that would reduce my utility bills alone, BT and Sky spring to mind straight away. Why do we think its ok to pay "celebrities" huge amounts of money to advertise a service that we need or want when we cannot/should not pay bonuses to people that have generated business/money for this country? My dad still insists that Thatcher is today responsible for the lack of social housing in the whole of the country, but cannot seem to grasp that the Left Wing held power for 10 years in which this could have been over turned!!

 

You are not seriously thinking The Blair/Brown outfit was an example of a Left Wing government are you? Listen to your Dad, I'd suggest he's been around the traps and has at least an idea into what he talks about.

Not ok to pay Chief Executives and celebs big bikkies, but the culture of adoration and individualism (to the point of screw everybody else) took off from those Thatcher times.

 

 

The Left go on about the banksters with just cause. They came close to collapsing the entire economic system but felt no pang of embarrassment as socialising the losses which hence tax payers paid the bill. I note the first one went to prison only recently. Should have done an Iceland.

 

You may care to read up on economic policy under Labour pre Thatcher times to see what you say regarding all being the same when it comes to the rich exploiting the nation as simply being untrue.

 

Hopefully Scotland isn't losing its left edge in politics? Now that would be a shame.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Non essential are probably paper pushers, non productive staff. Cleaners and porters are essential staff.

 

That is what this govt want you to believe but they have introduced so many requirements for paperwork in order to try and clamp down on so called waste that it can take my wife a half a days paperwork, including a 36 page form to make an expenditure of 5.5k, whilst she does that she is totally unproductive but the finance dept can satisfy the auditors that due process has been followed, no local suppliers will work for the hospital because they cannot wait 3 months to be paid so everything is routed thro approved suppliers who load every item with an on cost to reflect their cost of waiting for payment while due process is followed and because they have monopolistic powers.

The govt are setting the NHS up to fail, it's as simple as that.

[bristolman]

The govt are setting the NHS up to fail, it's as simple as that.

 

Well that's the way you see it and that's fair enough.

[Guest51810]

Well that's the way you see it and that's fair enough.

 

to be fair, quite a lot of healthcare workers in the nhs see it that way. Obviously some of them don't though

[caramac]

Well that's the way you see it and that's fair enough.

 

 

It's how many working in the system see it too. But, hey, what would they know? It's all about self interest after all..

[Skyba]

could we try this as a test as to whether being right wing is about self interest or not:-

at the election approx 11,350,000 voted conservative, in the last couple of days the chancellor, George Osbourne, started to sell Royal Bank of Scotland shares which were bought by the Govt to prevent RBS from going bankrupt, they were bought on avg at 5 pounds a pop, he has sold them at approx 3.30 pounds a pop on the basis that the banks should be in the hands of the shyster private sector( quite apart that 40% were bought by US investors) despite it costing the country 1000,000,000, and there are still further sales to be announced which will be at a further deficit figure.

Now I think it is only fair that all those who support the market doctrine of the Conservatives should pay a levy to make up the loss to the cash strapped UK economy and to show how much they support Right Wing ideology, according to my Left Wing calculator that works out that every Conservative voter should pay 88.10pounds to show solidarity with the Conservative view of the world, which is that private ownership is infinitely better than public ownership, even when it incurs a loss to achieve it, and to continue with that level of payments for each loss made on the sale of the bank shares including the losses on the sale of Loyds shares.

Can I make a prophesy that there would not be a Conservative voter to be found in the whole of the UK if such a requirement was made, that is how much people believe in Conservatism, fine whilst ever it is putting money in their pockets but not when it comes to underwriting the principles on which it supposedly built.

Does it occur to anyone with some knowledge of the world to work out that Georges friends picking up bargain basement banks might think that George is a good egg and that he might just benefit from a few directorships in the coming years along with all of his placemen.

 

Post of the month!!!!

[Skyba]

It's how many working in the system see it too. But, hey, what would they know? It's all about self interest after all..

 

 

My Mrs worked at the BRI in Bristol and left to become a veterinary worse due to stress, there was an article in the paper the other day that stated an alarming rate of employees at the hospital were either off ill or had left for the same reason.

Our GP said he has NHS employees in on a weekly basis being signed off sick due to being overworked and stressed.

 

And new as for the treatment I have had very major surgery under both a labour led NHS and a Tory run one with only 15 months gap between the 2 very similar and equally invasive operations. Under the labour led NHS, after the crash may I add, I couldn't have wanted for better treatment, there were 4 nurses and a care assistant to look after around 12 patients, enough to keep them busy but also abide by their duty of care. Under the Tories the same ward in the same hospital left me unattended for hours, once after removing an epidural and my morphene drip and sitting me off of my bed until I screamed for help. This wasn't the staffs fault it was the fact that this was a busy surgical ward and there was 2 nurses and 4 care assistants to look after 48 patients.

 

I'm not old enough to remember much of thatcher but from my parents reports of hospitals there were people on here in th corridors waiting for help because she was doing just what this lot are, indirectly attacking it until it collapses.

[bristolman]

Can't blame this on the Tories

http://anmf.org.au/news/entry/high-workloads-will-see-more-nurses-quit

 

No one is saying that nurses, doctors, medical staff aren't overworked here and seemingly in Australia as well. Until Governments manage to find an unlimited amount of money the NHS will continue to be pushed.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I leave for Oz next week and am currently doing the goodbye rounds in Scotland as we speak so forgive me if this is more than confusing (too many alcohol induced lunches/dinners). The English cannot vote for the SNP so could have voted Labour, UKIP won how many seats at the election??? I am neither elitist, selfish or greedy and certainly not an Etonian tosser, don't even think they would give a working class Dundonian like me any time whatsoever, have a father who could outdo Stalin on his communist views, BUT along with my husband, having worked bloody hard to start up and then run successfully 2 companies ( where all employees are paid more than double the minimum/living wage) I could not and would not vote for Labour who are hell bent on believing that all private companies that do well, are the scourge of the country. My husband whilst building up his companies, supplemented his non income by going cabbing every evening, and when he was at home I was going to college/night school to learn how to do his accounts, this went on for 4 years. Are we now happy to hand over 50% or more of our profits to fund the country, when we sacrificed so so much, not on your nelly. Yes there are large companies that are able to avoid paying large tax bills, but this has happened under both governments because they realise the implications of scrapping the tax loopholes. And still the left wing go on about the bankers, I have watched several adverts in the last 24 hours that would reduce my utility bills alone, BT and Sky spring to mind straight away. Why do we think its ok to pay "celebrities" huge amounts of money to advertise a service that we need or want when we cannot/should not pay bonuses to people that have generated business/money for this country? My dad still insists that Thatcher is today responsible for the lack of social housing in the whole of the country, but cannot seem to grasp that the Left Wing held power for 10 years in which this could have been over turned!!

 

I spent 7 years going to night school and on day release to get from apprentice bricklayer to site agent/manager and then later a 3 year degree to become a Chartered Building surveyor after a further 2 years as a trainee/assistant surveyor and then spent almost 20 years as one of the few professional surveyors working for Housing Depts trying to maximise the value of their housing stocks by carrying out properly administered maintenance and improvement contracts, I could have had a much more glamorous life in the private sector but I believed that community assetts should be properly maintained and people should have decent living conditions in easy to heat houses.

I still believe that everyone has to pay taxes as a way of making society equitable and that is the price of living in a civilised society, yes there will alwsys be percentage who take advantage of the system and I have had to deal with those in the past, but the majority in the past were working people looking to get with their lives, and the exploiters were shunned and shamed, now Social housing is housing of the last resort and to be in it you are instantly categorised as a failure and stigmatised for it and all the people having a hard time of it are thrown together and just like going to prison, you might be a petty criminal when you go in but when you come out you've learnt all the tricks from the real hardened crims.

Where is all of this leading to, I suppose to the point that working hard to achieve is not just about making money and wanting to participate in the good life and feeling aggrieved that others are having it easy on the taxes that you have to pay on the fruits of your labours but that others have worked hard to schieve and still feel that society demands sacrifices so that everyone in society can improve their position.

Even in Australia there are poor people dependent on the state for survival and a huge number are the original inhabitants of the continent and who still ostracised and stigmatised for it even though they have been treated shockingly over the past 200 years, so the difficulties of seeing taxes given to the undeserving poor is still a issue in a country which loves to call a spade a shovel.

The poor are always with us and it will always be convenient to single out the deserving and the undeserving as means of limiting expenditure .

[BacktoDemocracy]

Can't blame this on the Tories

http://anmf.org.au/news/entry/high-workloads-will-see-more-nurses-quit

 

No one is saying that nurses, doctors, medical staff aren't overworked here and seemingly in Australia as well. Until Governments manage to find an unlimited amount of money the NHS will continue to be pushed.

It is not that they are simply overworked but that they are given tasks over and above what they are professionally trained for and also their support systems are strangled by red tape and then they are hung out to dry when things go wrong because they do not have any control over things which are crucial to them being able to perform at their best.

[caramac]

My Mrs worked at the BRI in Bristol and left to become a veterinary worse due to stress, there was an article in the paper the other day that stated an alarming rate of employees at the hospital were either off ill or had left for the same reason.

Our GP said he has NHS employees in on a weekly basis being signed off sick due to being overworked and stressed.

 

And new as for the treatment I have had very major surgery under both a labour led NHS and a Tory run one with only 15 months gap between the 2 very similar and equally invasive operations. Under the labour led NHS, after the crash may I add, I couldn't have wanted for better treatment, there were 4 nurses and a care assistant to look after around 12 patients, enough to keep them busy but also abide by their duty of care. Under the Tories the same ward in the same hospital left me unattended for hours, once after removing an epidural and my morphene drip and sitting me off of my bed until I screamed for help. This wasn't the staffs fault it was the fact that this was a busy surgical ward and there was 2 nurses and 4 care assistants to look after 48 patients.

 

I'm not old enough to remember much of thatcher but from my parents reports of hospitals there were people on here in th corridors waiting for help because she was doing just what this lot are, indirectly attacking it until it collapses.

 

 

I'm old enough to remember doing my training under the Thatcher administration and remember clearly thinking how taking the cleaning staff out of the ward team and putting it out to private tender was a big mistake.

So it proved to be. We had our first case of MRSA within 6 months. Coincidence? Possibly, but there were so many jobs that the original ward cleaners did as a part of their duties which the contracted out service wouldn't touch. Cleaning toilets being one of them! We never had the same cleaners twice, so there was little pride taken and no loyalty to the rest of the team which was a given previously.

I remember there not being enough sheets, blankets etc and wrapping pillows in towels because there weren't enough pillowcases.

I remember bring newly qualified and being left in charge on a full ward on an operating day, with only auxiliaries and students for support.

Seems like we've come full circle..

[Skyba]

I'm old enough to remember doing my training under the Thatcher administration and remember clearly thinking how taking the cleaning staff out of the ward team and putting it out to private tender was a big mistake.

So it proved to be. We had our first case of MRSA within 6 months. Coincidence? Possibly, but there were so many jobs that the original ward cleaners did as a part of their duties which the contracted out service wouldn't touch. Cleaning toilets being one of them! We never had the same cleaners twice, so there was little pride taken and no loyalty to the rest of the team which was a given previously.

I remember there not being enough sheets, blankets etc and wrapping pillows in towels because there weren't enough pillowcases.

I remember bring newly qualified and being left in charge on a full ward on an operating day, with only auxiliaries and students for support.

Seems like we've come full circle..

 

 

The hospital I had my treatment in was trelisk in Truro, I now work for a company called MITIE as an electrician in bristol and these oxygen thieves got the contract to clean trelisk, within 3 months they had 4 cases of MRSA and within 6 the contract was cancelled, they were also caught out for not paying minimum wage. They clean a lot of the banks we look after and looted bank in Yeovil has actually started to employ their own cleaner locally as the Mitie one hasn't shown up for 3 months, the ladbrokes I was in today haven't had toilet roll for 6 months. MITIE are a perfect example of a Thatcherite company, I took a job with them as I was self employed and wanted holiday pay for my trip to oz, I also didn't quite realise what type of company they are. I will probably be under their employment for another 3 weeks, I have a couple offers on the table but if neither are right for me I'll go back to being a sub contractor.

 

it makes me sick that I work for a company like this, they are everything I hate but I have to put food on the table, all I can do for now is assess my options and play them at their own games and take them for anything I can get

Edited August 6, 2015 by Skyba

[MARYROSE02]

Just because a job is sub-contracted out to a private company does not mean that it wll be stuffed. State ownership can be just as incompetent.

[Skyba]

Just because a job is sub-contracted out to a private company does not mean that it wll be stuffed. State ownership can be just as incompetent.

 

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong here when it comes to the public sector sub contracting to the private sector. They go with the lowest bid and usually the lowest bid has been made by vastly underestimating the cost of running the contract and more often than not leads to poor standard of service. Like I said I work for MITIE who are one of those companies that provides a very poor service due to this type of operation, our most common complaint they comes from literally every site I go on is that most of the engineers are great but the company as a whole is a joke, especially the cleaning side. other companies such as servo, capita and corillion all seem to be very much the same, although I do think Mitie take the biscuit.

It's become worse lately because there's less competition because companies like MITIE bought out the smaller ones when the GFC hit so the people looking for the service have less choice. It's almost like the last election when you say it like that, the choice was absolute pricks and people who think they need to act like absolute pricks to get voted in

Edited August 7, 2015 by Skyba