Being indian ( asian ) in australia

[Marisawright]

I have been to australia many times and whenever i walk on aussie streets, i always get some racist vibes. Whenever i read their newspapers, there's

always a column of racist attacks.I have been to uk,us and canada as well but i never felt racism there or maybe i was just lucky.Im moving to aus next month, so i would really like to know if im making the right decision?

 

Where in Australia have you visited? Is it just one city or many cities? In one state or many states?

 

Racism is everywhere,but it is also exaggerated by the press because sensationalist stories sell newspapers, and they often fudge the facts. For instance - several Indian students were attacked in Melbourne a few years ago. They were presented as racist attacks but they were not. The fact was that the gangs were going after students who were carrying expensive technology. The local students knew to hide their laptops or phones when walking around in poor areas, but the Indian students did not, so they were easy targets.

 

I have a friend who is from Chicago, he is an African American. In Chicago, he would be stopped regularly by the police and searched just because he was black and driving a nice SUV. Not in Sydney. The thing that really got me was when we went to a Chinese restaurant for a colleague's farewell. We were all sitting around a big table together in the middle of the restaurant, and he said that in Chicago he wouldn't have been able to do that, because everyone would have been staring at him.

[Daveakaginge]

Ummmmm! racism, a word used more by non-whites. But let's take India for example, are they racist? they operate a caste system, which is as follows, so discuss whether they are more racist there, than in Australia.

[h=2]What's the caste system?[/h]Broadly speaking, a caste system is a process of placing people in occupational groups. It has pervaded several aspects of Indian society for centuries. Rooted in religion and based on a division of labor, the caste system, among other things, dictates the type of occupations a person can pursue and the social interactions that she may have. Castes are an aspect of Hindu religion. Other religions in India do not follow this system.

Castes are ranked in hierarchical order (originally, the system wasn't to have a hierarchy based on occupation or birth but purely on personality; this has been skewed somehow over time), which determines the behavior of one member of society over another. Even in a modern business setting, where caste isn't openly acknowledged, there may be subtle observances of village or family-style ranking. For instance, a young official may address a senior person, not necessarily his superior, aschachaji, a respectful term for a paternal uncle.

[h=2]How it's structured[/h]India's caste system has four main classes (also called varnas) based originally on personality, profession, and birth. In descending order, the classes are as follows:

 

 

• Brahmana (now more commonly spelled Brahmin): Consist of those engaged in scriptural education and teaching, essential for the continuation of knowledge.
  

 

 

 

• Kshatriya: Take on all forms of public service, including administration, maintenance of law and order, and defense.
  

 

 

 

• Vaishya: Engage in commercial activity as businessmen.
  

 

 

 

• Shudra: Work as semi-skilled and unskilled laborers.
  

 

The most obvious problem with this system was that under its rigidity, the lower castes were prevented from aspiring to climb higher, and, therefore, economic progress was restricted.

[flybyknight]

Ummmmm! racism, a word used more by non-whites. But let's take India for example, are they racist? they operate a caste system, which is as follows, so discuss whether they are more racist there, than in Australia.

What's the caste system?

 

Broadly speaking, a caste system is a process of placing people in occupational groups. It has pervaded several aspects of Indian society for centuries. Rooted in religion and based on a division of labor, the caste system, among other things, dictates the type of occupations a person can pursue and the social interactions that she may have. Castes are an aspect of Hindu religion. Other religions in India do not follow this system.

Castes are ranked in hierarchical order (originally, the system wasn't to have a hierarchy based on occupation or birth but purely on personality; this has been skewed somehow over time), which determines the behavior of one member of society over another. Even in a modern business setting, where caste isn't openly acknowledged, there may be subtle observances of village or family-style ranking. For instance, a young official may address a senior person, not necessarily his superior, aschachaji, a respectful term for a paternal uncle.

How it's structured

 

India's caste system has four main classes (also called varnas) based originally on personality, profession, and birth. In descending order, the classes are as follows:

 

 

• Brahmana (now more commonly spelled Brahmin): Consist of those engaged in scriptural education and teaching, essential for the continuation of knowledge.

 

 

 

• Kshatriya: Take on all forms of public service, including administration, maintenance of law and order, and defense.

 

 

 

• Vaishya: Engage in commercial activity as businessmen.

 

 

 

• Shudra: Work as semi-skilled and unskilled laborers.

 

The most obvious problem with this system was that under its rigidity, the lower castes were prevented from aspiring to climb higher, and, therefore, economic progress was restricted.

 

this has been explained to me in my current job, as all the middle management and 'cushy' positions are occupied by Indians.

the middle managers are also confrontational and rude, this is believed to be standard practise as a management style in India.

sadly this is the first time i have personally (as a white brit) experienced blatant directed racism.

i am careful not to allow it to change my views, but it is a challenge when it's right in your face!

outside of this business i find melbourne to be the most welcoming and multicultural of places. it's a wonderful melting pot of cultures generally living in harmony.

[flag of convenience]

Probably more logical to allow a person of another race to answer with any degree of certainty. Appearances and reality often conflict.

[Lambethlad]

Hey guys,

 

Just a quick question- Is australia really a racist country?

 

FYI:-

I have been to australia many times and whenever i walk on aussie streets, i always get some racist vibes. Whenever i read their newspapers, there's

always a column of racist attacks.I have been to uk,us and canada as well but i never felt racism there or maybe i was just lucky.Im moving to aus next month, so i would really like to know if im making the right decision?

 

Are you serious?

[MARYROSE02]

There are no non-racist countries.

[MovingtoTasmania]

So true @MARYROSE02 it's just that the target of the racism is different in each country.

[Nearlythere1]

To be frank, if you have always found Australia to be racist, unlike the UK, US, and Canada, why come here? I thought I was going to be called a Pommie B*stard by every Aussie I met but, after more than 30 years here, I am still waiting.

 

Most of the Australian cities have large migrant communties from just about every part of the world. Of course, there is some racism, and contrary to popular opinion, 'racism' does not mean white people being nasty to everybody else. The worst racism is often committed by non-white ethnic groups, and Aborigines hardly live in harmony with each other, but it's just not politically correct to say this. Look at the awful revelations recently in Yorkshire.

 

You might recall the attacks on Indian students in both Sydney and Melbourne which were reported in depth in India. The attacks were not racist and neither were they committed by white Australians. The motive was robbery.

 

I've only ever been called a Pommie B**tard by my Aussie friends lol.. I find it quite amusing.. And only happens when they've just been beaten in darts or pool etc.. :smile: Sometimes I feel that PC has gone too far, people can sometimes be too touchy.. Not to dismiss actual racism in any way.. When I was growing up, black people were called coloured and it was rude to call them black (not meaning to offend anyone, just an example).. Now it's the other way around.. I heard someone on the radio yesterday who was absolutely incensed by someone who referred to him as coloured. It wasn't meant as a racial slur, the guy just picked the wrong word because he was from an older generation and not familiar with the right PC term for this particular ethnic group. I don't really get what the difference is, if neither are meant as a racial slur.. Just my opinion... Should I be outraged by someone calling me a pommie, as others are in similar positions? Nah, can't say it bothers me in the slightest... I might feel different about it, if I fail to get a job or a house because I'm a Pommie B**tard though.. Just saying... :wacko:

[MARYROSE02]

Remember the furore when Prince Philip referred to 'Indian builders?' I remain convinced he just made a mistake and meant to say 'Cowboy', but talk about making Mount Everest out of a pimple.

 

And although I've personally never been abused for being a Pommie, whenever The Ashes are on, some sections of the media, ie the Murdoch tabloids (NOT 'The Australian') will sometimes go over the top and use words that, if 'Pommie' was swapped for any other nationality, would be accused of racism. Didn't the Courier-Mail have a right go at Stuart Broad? You never hear the likes of Sarah Hanson Young going on about it though, which is entirely typical of leftie hypocrisy.

 

I notice too, just how relaively silent, the lefties are on the subject of the student protests in Hong Kong.

 

I can't really speak for the rest of Australia, but Sydney has a HUGE Indian community, or perhaps I should say 'Sub-continental' community? (What IS the correct word? 'Indian' has become almost a generic word, much like 'Hoover' for a vacumn cleaner. I have an Indian surgeon, a Bangla-deshi (and Moslem) accountant, ditto my favourite restaurant just down the road.

 

In a city of over four million people with a racial mix probably second only to London, there are bound to be some 'incidents', which, naturally, are blown up by those ubiquitous lefties to be PROOF POSITIVE that Sydney is full of the world's worst racists. Sure there is the odd incident on a bus or a train, but when you see how many millions of journeys are taken, it is truly insignificant. And even our worst riot - Cronulla - is another Mount Everest out of a pimple compared to the sort of riots that occur in the USA and UK.

 

When people start to leave Sydney, rather than clamour to be allowed in, I will believe it is full of racists.

[MovingtoTasmania]

 

I can't really speak for the rest of Australia, but Sydney has a HUGE Indian community, or perhaps I should say 'Sub-continental' community? (What IS the correct word? 'Indian' has become almost a generic word, much like 'Hoover' for a vacumn cleaner. I have an Indian surgeon, a Bangla-deshi (and Moslem) accountant, ditto my favourite restaurant just down the road.

 

 

You can say "South Asian" which covers just about India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and also in academia has been applied to Kashmir and Afghanistan too!

[Harpodom]

OP, the Cronulla riots WERE important, they shocked Australia back in 2005, they were a wake up call that all was not well with multicultural Australia, and it became apparent that there was a lot of resentment towards the Islamic community in Sydney. It took a lot of work at the time to repair the damage to community cohesion.

 

Alan Jones, shock jock, who is featured in the article below, miraculously continues to ply his trade and STILL has access to our PM for interviews. Make of that what you will.

 

 

 

[h=1]Alan Jones: I'm the person that's led this charge[/h]BY THURSDAY last week Alan Jones was screaming like a race caller whose horse was coming home. "I'm the person that's led this charge here. Nobody wanted to know about North Cronulla, now it's gathered to this."

 

The riot was still three days away and Sydney's highest-rating breakfast radio host had a heap of anonymous emails to whip his 2GB listeners along. "Alan, it's not just a few Middle Eastern bastards at the weekend, it's thousands. Cronulla is a very long beach and it's been taken over by this scum. It's not a few causing trouble. It's all of them."

Sunday's trouble did not come out of the blue. It was brewing all week on talkback radio — particularly on 2GB.

Radio doesn't get much grimmer than Alan Jones' efforts in the days before the Cronulla riot. He was dead keen for a demo at the beach — "a rally, a street march, call it what you will. A community show of force."

He assured his huge audience he "understood" why that famous text message went out and he read it right through again on air. "Come to Cronulla this weekend to take revenge. This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support the Leb and wog bashing day …"

Daily he cautioned his listeners not to take the law into their own hands, but he warmed to listeners who had exactly that on their minds.

Last Thursday Charlie rang to suggest all junior footballers in the Shire gather on the beach to support the lifesavers. "Good stuff, good stuff," said Jones.

"I tell you who we want to encourage, Charlie, all the Pacific Island people because, you want to know something, they don't take any nonsense. They are proud to be here — all those Samoans and Fijians. They love being here. And they say, 'Uh huh, uh huh. You step out of line, look out.' And, of course, cowards always run, don't they?"

When John called on Tuesday to bluntly recommend vigilante action — "If the police can't do the job, the next tier is us" — Jones did not dissent. "Yeh. Good on you, John." And when he then offered a maxim his father had picked up during the war — "Shoot one, the rest will run" — the broadcaster roared with laughter. "No, you don't play Queensberry's rules. Good on you, John."

It was horrible stuff, larded with self-congratulation. And pity poor Berta — "not of a Middle Eastern family" — who tried to argue there were two sides to this story. When she reported hearing "really derogatory remarks" aimed at Middle Eastern people on Cronulla beach, Jones cut her off: "Let's not get too carried away, Berta. We don't have Anglo-Saxon kids out there raping women in western Sydney."

Yesterday, 2GB broadcasters claimed two-thirds of calls coming into the station supported "what happened" at Cronulla on Sunday. But Alan Jones is not around to deal with the aftermath. He's having a well-earned holiday.

[h=3]TALKBACK RADIO[/h] CALLER TO 2UE, SYDNEY

MOIR: Look, you know, I feel like everybody else. I'm really upset about this whole thing. I grew up in Cronulla. I'm a Cronulla girl, and I reverted to Islam four years ago, and I get so upset to hear people talking about these thugs, these Lebanese thugs, in terms of Islam. CALLER TO 2GB, SYDNEY

MARK: It's not about keeping Australia white, it's about keeping Australia right — having the right people, the right culture and the right feeling. What we've got here now is totally away from where we want to be.

CALLER TO 3AW

DOROTHY: I'd class those ones who took part in that yesterday, they're not fit to be called Aussies — dirty, filthy, drunken little scumbags.

 

 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/alan-jones-im-the-person-thats-led-this-charge/2005/12/12/1134236003153.html

[Petals]

Racism is an individual experience and works both ways so it really depends on what one perceives.

[MARYROSE02]

OP, the Cronulla riots WERE important, they shocked Australia back in 2005, they were a wake up call that all was not well with multicultural Australia, and it became apparent that there was a lot of resentment towards the Islamic community in Sydney. It took a lot of work at the time to repair the damage to community cohesion.

 

Alan Jones, shock jock, who is featured in the article below, miraculously continues to ply his trade and STILL has access to our PM for interviews. Make of that what you will.

 

 

 

Alan Jones: I'm the person that's led this charge

 

BY THURSDAY last week Alan Jones was screaming like a race caller whose horse was coming home. "I'm the person that's led this charge here. Nobody wanted to know about North Cronulla, now it's gathered to this."

 

The riot was still three days away and Sydney's highest-rating breakfast radio host had a heap of anonymous emails to whip his 2GB listeners along. "Alan, it's not just a few Middle Eastern bastards at the weekend, it's thousands. Cronulla is a very long beach and it's been taken over by this scum. It's not a few causing trouble. It's all of them."

Sunday's trouble did not come out of the blue. It was brewing all week on talkback radio — particularly on 2GB.

Radio doesn't get much grimmer than Alan Jones' efforts in the days before the Cronulla riot. He was dead keen for a demo at the beach — "a rally, a street march, call it what you will. A community show of force."

He assured his huge audience he "understood" why that famous text message went out and he read it right through again on air. "Come to Cronulla this weekend to take revenge. This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support the Leb and wog bashing day …"

Daily he cautioned his listeners not to take the law into their own hands, but he warmed to listeners who had exactly that on their minds.

Last Thursday Charlie rang to suggest all junior footballers in the Shire gather on the beach to support the lifesavers. "Good stuff, good stuff," said Jones.

"I tell you who we want to encourage, Charlie, all the Pacific Island people because, you want to know something, they don't take any nonsense. They are proud to be here — all those Samoans and Fijians. They love being here. And they say, 'Uh huh, uh huh. You step out of line, look out.' And, of course, cowards always run, don't they?"

When John called on Tuesday to bluntly recommend vigilante action — "If the police can't do the job, the next tier is us" — Jones did not dissent. "Yeh. Good on you, John." And when he then offered a maxim his father had picked up during the war — "Shoot one, the rest will run" — the broadcaster roared with laughter. "No, you don't play Queensberry's rules. Good on you, John."

It was horrible stuff, larded with self-congratulation. And pity poor Berta — "not of a Middle Eastern family" — who tried to argue there were two sides to this story. When she reported hearing "really derogatory remarks" aimed at Middle Eastern people on Cronulla beach, Jones cut her off: "Let's not get too carried away, Berta. We don't have Anglo-Saxon kids out there raping women in western Sydney."

Yesterday, 2GB broadcasters claimed two-thirds of calls coming into the station supported "what happened" at Cronulla on Sunday. But Alan Jones is not around to deal with the aftermath. He's having a well-earned holiday.

TALKBACK RADIO

 

CALLER TO 2UE, SYDNEY

MOIR: Look, you know, I feel like everybody else. I'm really upset about this whole thing. I grew up in Cronulla. I'm a Cronulla girl, and I reverted to Islam four years ago, and I get so upset to hear people talking about these thugs, these Lebanese thugs, in terms of Islam. CALLER TO 2GB, SYDNEY

MARK: It's not about keeping Australia white, it's about keeping Australia right — having the right people, the right culture and the right feeling. What we've got here now is totally away from where we want to be.

CALLER TO 3AW

DOROTHY: I'd class those ones who took part in that yesterday, they're not fit to be called Aussies — dirty, filthy, drunken little scumbags.

 

 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/alan-jones-im-the-person-thats-led-this-charge/2005/12/12/1134236003153.html

 

Have you considered the possiblity that the Cronulla riot was not so much proof positive of the innate racism of white Australians as just another example of what happens when you try to create an 'artificial' multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-religious society, without setting firm rules for everybody to abide by?

 

And by comparison to the 'wake up calls' that Britain endured, Cronulla was just a pimple compared to the British Everest. Remind me of how many cities erupted into violence in the early 80's and again a couple of years ago.

 

Alan Jones did not turn white Australians into anti-Islam bigots. If you want to blame someone then look at the people who carried out the Bali bombs.

[Petals]

I just wonder why we have to think about every act or thing we say these days, we are allowed to swear, be rude to people who we do not know but we must not mention any ethnic origin of people. I think its got way too hard and there are so many people who are critical and its very easy when we are not involved.

 

My daughter's partner is cross cultural, my best friend is half moari but you know we have been friends for over 40 years and never once has race come into our relationship and that is what matters its how we interact on a personal basis not the mob variety.

 

What I am trying to say who has not been abused by a drunk on a street, I know I have, who has not had obnoxious comments said I have and I expect I will get many more out there on the streets. So what is the difference, someone abusing me and saying I am slut or whatever they want to say, I am pretty hurt by that comment but that's ok as long as they don't mention my racial background.

 

We need to get over all this sorry op but its a very touchy subject in Aus and if you just go about your world and your work and your family things will be just fine wherever you come from, however you may get abused like me on the street, the tram, the whatever and it may be because you look different, but you know we all look different to somebody who takes a dislike to us and we just have to get on with it.

[flag of convenience]

Remember the furore when Prince Philip referred to 'Indian builders?' I remain convinced he just made a mistake and meant to say 'Cowboy', but talk about making Mount Everest out of a pimple.

 

And although I've personally never been abused for being a Pommie, whenever The Ashes are on, some sections of the media, ie the Murdoch tabloids (NOT 'The Australian') will sometimes go over the top and use words that, if 'Pommie' was swapped for any other nationality, would be accused of racism. Didn't the Courier-Mail have a right go at Stuart Broad? You never hear the likes of Sarah Hanson Young going on about it though, which is entirely typical of leftie hypocrisy.

 

I notice too, just how relaively silent, the lefties are on the subject of the student protests in Hong Kong.

 

I can't really speak for the rest of Australia, but Sydney has a HUGE Indian community, or perhaps I should say 'Sub-continental' community? (What IS the correct word? 'Indian' has become almost a generic word, much like 'Hoover' for a vacumn cleaner. I have an Indian surgeon, a Bangla-deshi (and Moslem) accountant, ditto my favourite restaurant just down the road.

 

In a city of over four million people with a racial mix probably second only to London, there are bound to be some 'incidents', which, naturally, are blown up by those ubiquitous lefties to be PROOF POSITIVE that Sydney is full of the world's worst racists. Sure there is the odd incident on a bus or a train, but when you see how many millions of journeys are taken, it is truly insignificant. And even our worst riot - Cronulla - is another Mount Everest out of a pimple compared to the sort of riots that occur in the USA and UK.

 

When people start to leave Sydney, rather than clamour to be allowed in, I will believe it is full of racists.

 

You are surely not suggesting that the authoritarian regime in China is left? It is about as hard right in policy as possible.

[akiralx]

What I am trying to say who has not been abused by a drunk on a street, I know I have, who has not had obnoxious comments said I have and I expect I will get many more out there on the streets. So what is the difference, someone abusing me and saying I am slut or whatever they want to say, I am pretty hurt by that comment but that's ok as long as they don't mention my racial background.

 

We need to get over all this sorry op but its a very touchy subject in Aus and if you just go about your world and your work and your family things will be just fine wherever you come from, however you may get abused like me on the street, the tram, the whatever and it may be because you look different, but you know we all look different to somebody who takes a dislike to us and we just have to get on with it.

 

I have never been abused by a drunk or anyone else on the street, and what is 'a very touchy subject in Aus' - the country's racism? Your last paragraph just sounds like a justification for racial abuse.

[flag of convenience]

I've certainly been abused on Australian streets but not in recent times, but have as well on UK and Danish streets. Must have the face that incites anger but gave it back usually with relish as well.

[Diane]

I have not found Adelaide to be particularly racist - there seems to be a good multicultural mix - but some sectors of community seem to have a bit of a sheep-mentality and take their lead from the media, shockjocks on talk radio, and the reporting of what people in government say in public, so sometimes there are unpleasant side effects from that. The main stream media isn't as well -balanced here in Australia as it is in England (for instance) and tabloid newspapers aren't treated with the pinch of salt they should be sometimes.

 

[Paul1Perth]

I don't know what you mean by a racist vibe but I find Aussies will openly voice their opinions on different races and racism in general a lot more freely than in the UK. If an Aussie thinks something, no matter how politically incorrect, they will generally let you know their opinion.

 

There is racism everywhere and if you are easily upset then you might think people are picking on you. Truth is they don't discriminate on race or colour but like a good piss take.

[blossom]

Back to the ops question please. This thread has already had to be tidied once. We don't want to have to do it again.

[blossom]

If you want to discuss asylum seekers then go start your own thread in CTF! Even after asking people to get back to the op's question you are still going on. Any more on this thread will receive infractions. How many times do you need telling people?

[Guest]

My personal opinion based on 5 years in Perth only is that Australian's are far less reserved in expressing their views on migrants than in the UK. You will see 'Fit in or F-k off' stickers everywhere. Yes, that same mindset exists in the UK but rarely amongst the educated middle classes and that is the difference that I found and I was rather shocked.

 

I am white anglo-saxon so it is difficult to really know what it would feel like to be an Indian in Australia, I did sponsor an ex-colleague of mine from the UK (because he was exceptionally good at his job and I needed those skills in my team!) who was from Pakistan although had lived in Scotland most of his life, he adjusted well but his wife, who had spent much more of her life in Pakistan did struggle at first. She found it hard to find employment and found the brashness of Australian culture hard to stomach (though to be honest so did I), they were teetotal and so much of Australian socialising is focussed on drinking. Whereas he was happy to join us in the pub after work and drink soft drinks, she wouldn't be in situations where there was alcohol.

 

They moved to an area of Perth where there were a higher number of people from their culture and as far as I know are very settled - they are still there, we aren't

 

I couldn't fit in so I f-ked off

 

I think you do have to understand the culture is different and as a migrant to an extent you have to accept that culture - you can't take the good without accepting the bad. Complaining about aspects of the culture is frowned upon if you are a migrant, and I found that very difficult, I am used to being a political activist and I remember being told that I had no right to complain as 'this is the Australian way', yet most of my Australian friends were petitioning, demonstrating etc. too!

 

I do not think though based on my experience that you are any more at risk of discrimination or hate crimes than you would be for example in the UK. Certainly growing up with a best friend from Pakistan opened my eyes to the abuse that goes on in the UK even if it isn't so obvious to the masses as it is in Australia.

[NickyNook]

I've lived here in Sydney for 35 years and I've never, ever seen a 'Fit in or F* off' sticker anywhere.

 

Maybe it's a bogan Perth thing?

[blossom]

I've lived here in Sydney for 35 years and I've never, ever seen a 'Fit in or F* off' sticker anywhere.

 

Maybe it's a bogan Perth thing?

I used to see loads when I first got to Adelaide 6 years ago. I don't think I've seen one in the last couple of years though.

[Guest]

I've lived here in Sydney for 35 years and I've never, ever seen a 'Fit in or F* off' sticker anywhere.

 

Maybe it's a bogan Perth thing?

 

Wow that is interesting

 

They are sold and displayed everywhere, I even bought a 'Fit in or go home' sticker to bring back to the - big Aussie flag on it, I intended to add 'I did' but it's still in a drawer somewhere