Que Sera Sera Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Private schools here aren't just for the rich. My sons school fees are $5000 per year. Hardly unattainable to even the lowest paid worker.In our Suburb currently thereis oonlyone high school and its private. To drive my son to the nearest High School would cost almost the same in petrol as his fees. Add to that the school performs well it reallywas a no brainer to send him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Private schools here aren't just for the rich. My sons school fees are $5000 per year. Hardly unattainable to even the lowest paid worker.In our Suburb currently thereis oonlyone high school and its private. To drive my son to the nearest High School would cost almost the same in petrol as his fees. Add to that the school performs well it reallywas a no brainer to send him there. Minimum wage is less than $35k a year, I would say $5k would be pretty unattainable at that level - espesh if there are multiple kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Minimum wage is less than $35k a year, I would say $5k would be pretty unattainable at that level - espesh if there are multiple kids. If there was only one wage coming in at minimum which I would imagine is very rare. and even if it wasnt benefits would top that amount up hugely. We have a newly built area of social housing in our suburb and there are a fare few families that send their kkids to the private school. One family have three sons at the school. Dad is a taxi driver, Mum is a Home Help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 If there was only one wage coming in at minimum which I would imagine is very rare. and even if it wasnt benefits would top that amount up hugely. We have a newly built area of social housing in our suburb and there are a fare few families that send their kkids to the private school. One family have three sons at the school. Dad is a taxi driver, Mum is a Home Help. Good on 'em.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I haven't read all the thread but want to ask the question, do you think it's down to each individual student and teacher rather than the school as a whole? Maybe our wonderful maths teacher can answer that? The reason I ask is, take my son for an example, he loved Japanese he never got below an A for term work or exams, the teacher said he was the best in class. She then left to have a baby, his first report with a new teacher was a D. Now this was in no way the schools fault but it was the fault of either my son who just didn't want to work hard for this new teacher, or this new teacher taught and marked a totally different way. I think it's a mixture - my boy is like yours responds very well to teachers he likes, my daughter can just get on with it and put the effort in regardless but just enjoys it more if it's a teacher she likes. She's really not enjoyed anthropology so far this semester because of the teaching style of the lecturer, then the other night she couldn't stop talking about it - seems the lecturer has gone on long service leave and the new one fits more into her learning style. I think choosing the right school environment for your child is important - my two are chalk and cheese - my daughter is academic, my son more into sports (but still a reasonable scholar .. just different priorities), we're lucky to have a public school on our doorstep which has met both their needs - they had an academic extension programme which my daughter was part of, and there is also a strong sports programme which my son enjoys - at the end of the day, whilst I obviously want them to achieve their potential - I want them to be happy and settled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Kids at private schools are more likely to have parents with professional jobs and wealthier economic backgrounds, conversely in public schools the opposite is often true. So do you want your kids to hang out with children who know what working hard can achieve or the children whose families rely on benefits, don't work, or where being a larrikin with the police is part of the norm? Obviously there are great public schools and not so great private ones. Interestingly, if this is the aim, you would often be better moving to a govt school closer to the city than a suburban non-govt school. Of course you then have to pay the house prices as they are usually catchment controlled. Edited September 13, 2014 by fish.01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 My priority is to send my now aged 8 son to private school . Alternatively get him into a good public school on an academic extension or some sort of scholarship. His results dont concern me but effort and attitude do and I think he's the kind of child that will do well where expectations are high and he's not singled out for being 'smart'. My ideas may be slightly scewed by my experience with my daughter who bombed out at school despite being a high achiever in some areas. She couldn't handle the peer pressure and the subtle and not so subtle bullying in the public school she went to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali B Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Maybe folk choose an affordable private education because they hope to buy their children into a better peer group? After all a child who doesn't apply themselves sent to the best school will come out just as uneducated as the child who doesn't apply themselves in the public system. Being around kids with grander aspirations at the private school - and hoping they rub off - is the minimum a parent can hope for. Peach, people need honesty about reasons for buying private education anywhere in the world. Couple of reasons. They think buying something automatically = better quality. They think their kids will mix with richer therefore better people (because if you don't have money you are failures OR don't care about paying for your children.) They think buying education = buying business contacts in a rich world with nicer richer and better behaved people. Money also buys arrogance and better drugs in teenage years. They think private schools have better teachers, will get better results for their kids and will look after their kids better. They think private schools will surround their kids with nice kids, better opportunities and will protect their kids better from the nasty outside world. All of these are by and large myths but contain an element of truth, lets be honest. Money does not and cannot buy you a life but it does give you a few extra choices. Private school kids do learn to look down on others, often sneer at teachers by the time they are in yr 11/12 senior school because if teachers had real ooomph they wouldn't be teachers. Teachers are only useful to ensure grades to get a foothold in a job with one of mother/father's contacts. Many not all learn that money buys grades (private schools often "require" staff to produce high grades because parents don't pay for Ds and Es so students are spoon-fed work. I have many friends who have worked in both systems and seen this 1st hand) Many not all private school kids who drop out of tertiary courses because they haven't properly learnt resilience and study skills. Many not all when faced with studying really hard, independently, can't hack it. Many not all families that fall on hard times see the hard face of private schools who kick them out unceremoniously if cheques bounce. I have interviewed MANY weeping parents begging to enrol in good government schools they should have considered in the first place. Sorry Peach. If you choose private, just be honest, you are buying privilege, nice uniform, not necessarily the best type of education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Sorry Peach. If you choose private, just be honest, you are buying privilege, nice uniform, not necessarily the best type of education. Where did I say anything different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingbacksoon Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Having taught for over a decade in the Queensland state system, the push for student data is enormous and placing a tremendous strain on teachers and their work load. I am going back to the UK in a few months and realistically don't expect the data gathering to be any different. One thing I am looking forward to is the half term system - Aussie kids usually have 10 week terms and for some of them it is just too much and they need a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Hopefully the OP has found the conversation and replies helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 About class sizes - the classes are smaller here than the UK but that's not the whole story. I would say DS has about 23 in the class but there is very little Teacher Aide time (after prep). In the UK, DS's school had 30 in each class but each one had a full time TA. Also one child had CP and had a full time carer who also did a lot of general TA type duties (don't think that would be in her job description but she did for whatever reason). So that made the ratios a bit different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 My priority is to send my now aged 8 son to private school . Alternatively get him into a good public school on an academic extension or some sort of scholarship. His results dont concern me but effort and attitude do and I think he's the kind of child that will do well where expectations are high and he's not singled out for being 'smart'. My ideas may be slightly scewed by my experience with my daughter who bombed out at school despite being a high achiever in some areas. She couldn't handle the peer pressure and the subtle and not so subtle bullying in the public school she went to. I would say though Fi I don't think that was to do with the school, I think that is down to the makeup of our daughters. Mine went to a very nice private school but suffered similarly to your daughter. It's just the way they are I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) My priority is to send my now aged 8 son to private school . Alternatively get him into a good public school on an academic extension or some sort of scholarship. His results dont concern me but effort and attitude do and I think he's the kind of child that will do well where expectations are high and he's not singled out for being 'smart'. My ideas may be slightly scewed by my experience with my daughter who bombed out at school despite being a high achiever in some areas. She couldn't handle the peer pressure and the subtle and not so subtle bullying in the public school she went to. My ideas are similarly screwed by my own experiences - a long, long time ago but i don't think it has changed. I was super smart - 1st year exam results I was top of the class in every single subject (by a mile in some cases) and I quickly learnt that didn't equal being popular. I was bullied and in a desperate need to be liked emulated the behaviour of the 'cool' kids - drinking, smoking, sex....at 16 I dropped out before taking a single exam. My teenage years were ones of anguish and pain (unwanted pregnancy, suicide attempt...not talking a bit of teenage blues) - now I agree with Northernbird personality comes into it too but I would have stood a better chance if I hadn't gone to an inner city Comprehensive in Middlesbrough. My son is perhaps not quite as academically gifted and therefore not quite the geek I was (am LOL!), he plays in the school rugby team whereas I was the last to be picked (well second from last, my rival for last place was at the other end of the special needs spectrum) but he is still a high achiever and I could not bear for him to go through the experiences I did. If we'd stayed in Perth he would have tried out for the GATE programme at John Curtin and Academic Extension at Shenton College. His class teachers were confident he could achieve a place but we did also had a place at Murdoch College as a 'back up'. The local high school was not great for academics though it was one of the best achieving vocational schools in Perth, the best school for one child isn't the best school for all - I do know from teachers it was a tough environment though. Probably the fact one school is in the UK and another in Australia is the least important factor - the catchment area within the countries probably has a far bigger influence. Edited September 13, 2014 by Lady Rainicorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Yes I know what you mean NB but I think she'd have stood a better chance...perhaps. I made the mistake of thinking her natural talent would get her through, maybe without the distractions and proximity to the 'gang culture' that exists there...I don't know. I also found the school lacking in terms of pastoral care...and support when grades were failing, it wasn't a case of guidance and care it was...right then you're not good enough for this pathway how about we put you in the alternative pathway....no thoughts as to why she wasn't thriving, I also thought some of the teachers were piss poor to be frank. I think there are 'pockets' of society in all areas/countries where kids are less aware/shielded/protected a bit more from the 'less desirable' elements of society. Before I get jumped on I've seen it first hand and maybe if I'd known then what i know know we wouldn't have settled where we did. (Even though the school she attended was in a 'better, suburb) In hindsight I should have continued the Christian education she already had. I will be looking for a christian faith school ideally for son and that means private. LR your thoughts are appreciated. There's no way son is going to the local school, it's just not happening. We are moving when he is 11 anyway and will consider schools carefully. You ca't guarantee outcomes but you can minimise risks and I hope the schools I am looking at will be a better fit for the son. He would get eaten alive at the local one and I don't want him to have to change who he is in order to 'fit in' Edited September 13, 2014 by HappyHeart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoadedDog Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I'm not familiar with the UK system, but I was a primary school kid in NSW in the 1970s, and that was an utter nadir in education. It made me jealous of older friends (esp. Pommy ones) who had the traditional education of Fr. Lat. Geog. etc. What I copped was a bunch of hippie teachers stoned out of their gourds telling us all to "sway like a tree" or do finger painting while they hid in the staff room and smoked Benson and Hedges Special Filter and talked about how many Harvey Wallbangers they'd knocked back the night before. Honest to God, I never even learned my times table by rote (my sister, two years ahead, did), and it was only when I learned German in high school that I got a basic understanding of simple grammatical concepts. Our German teacher (who WAS German) was astounded at our lack of knowledge of our native English language. I believe it has bounced back a little from those bad days, but my sister has primary school kids, and she still tells me some horror stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanbear Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Kids at private schools are more likely to have parents with professional jobs and wealthier economic backgrounds, conversely in public schools the opposite is often true. So do you want your kids to hang out with children who know what working hard can achieve or the children whose families rely on benefits, don't work, or where being a larrikin with the police is part of the norm? Obviously there are great public schools and not so great private ones. I completely disagree with you. My kids are at a state school and have the nicest friends whose parents are all professional people. Their teachers are more conscientious than many I know in the private sector and the students more orderly and considerate, both to each other and to the staff. They are exposed to a wider mix of ethnicity and know that they are working for their own future, rather than relying on money or influence to help them out. My friends who teach at uni say that a lot of the private students struggle more as they are used to being spoon fed and to having parents make excuses for them - I also found this to be the case when I taught at uni here. Although there are some positives at primary here like the confidence instilled in students and the lack of pressure, the general lack of accountability impacts on standards and my bright son was bored rigid for the last two years of primary. I agree with the post about the stresses of teaching in the UK, which is why I will give up teaching when we move back, but I am glad my kids will ultimately take A'levels which are more rigorous than SACE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanbear Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Having taught for over a decade in the Queensland state system, the push for student data is enormous and placing a tremendous strain on teachers and their work load. I am going back to the UK in a few months and realistically don't expect the data gathering to be any different. One thing I am looking forward to is the half term system - Aussie kids usually have 10 week terms and for some of them it is just too much and they need a break. That's interesting as SA seems lacking in that department (well certainly the schools I have taught at). There is little understanding or interest in insuring progression by setting targets based on results etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishenka Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Wow, thank you all for so many detained replies! It all def sounds reassuring can't comment on schools as we are not there yet but in regards to posts about daycare, it's official government requirements here for 2-3y olds 1:8 ratio and it's becoming 1:5 from 2016 whereas in the uk it's been 1:4 for ages. If it is different in any particular daycare that means they are volunteeraly doing more and above. I would imagine it would be a hard find in Sydney with 3y waiting lists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Yes I know what you mean NB but I think she'd have stood a better chance...perhaps. I made the mistake of thinking her natural talent would get her through, maybe without the distractions and proximity to the 'gang culture' that exists there...I don't know. I also found the school lacking in terms of pastoral care...and support when grades were failing, it wasn't a case of guidance and care it was...right then you're not good enough for this pathway how about we put you in the alternative pathway....no thoughts as to why she wasn't thriving, I also thought some of the teachers were piss poor to be frank. I think there are 'pockets' of society in all areas/countries where kids are less aware/shielded/protected a bit more from the 'less desirable' elements of society. Before I get jumped on I've seen it first hand and maybe if I'd known then what i know know we wouldn't have settled where we did. (Even though the school she attended was in a 'better, suburb) In hindsight I should have continued the Christian education she already had. I will be looking for a christian faith school ideally for son and that means private. LR your thoughts are appreciated. There's no way son is going to the local school, it's just not happening. We are moving when he is 11 anyway and will consider schools carefully. You ca't guarantee outcomes but you can minimise risks and I hope the schools I am looking at will be a better fit for the son. He would get eaten alive at the local one and I don't want him to have to change who he is in order to 'fit in' Would thorough recommend St Mark's Fiona, they were excellent with Katie and really did all they could to help her and make her want to stay there. Great Christian environment without being too religious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Would thorough recommend St Mark's Fiona, they were excellent with Katie and really did all they could to help her and make her want to stay there. Great Christian environment without being too religious. Will be going down south all being well NB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Wow, thank you all for so many detained replies! It all def sounds reassuring can't comment on schools as we are not there yet but in regards to posts about daycare, it's official government requirements here for 2-3y olds 1:8 ratio and it's becoming 1:5 from 2016 whereas in the uk it's been 1:4 for ages. If it is different in any particular daycare that means they are volunteeraly doing more and above. I would imagine it would be a hard find in Sydney with 3y waiting lists... Have to all be over 2.5yo to be 1:8 i think....here in qld anyway. Ages 2-3 is 1:6 at the moment and as you say 1:5 phasing in for both categories. Edited September 13, 2014 by fish.01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellybr Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 The parents at my sons public school are all professionals and as to there being a nicer kind of child at private school the 2 teams with the worst attitudes and un sporting behaviour my 7yr old played against this year at Auskick were from two local private schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 The parents at my sons public school are all professionals and as to there being a nicer kind of child at private school the 2 teams with the worst attitudes and un sporting behaviour my 7yr old played against this year at Auskick were from two local private schools. No one said kids at private schools were nicer. What I did say was that all you can really hope to get from paying to send your kids to private school is a better peer group, you can't guarantee they'll work any harder or get better grades. But you can 'hope' that through mingling with the children from wealthier families (or those that make sacrafices for their kids) - and whether people like it or no affordability is a barrier to entry for private schools - that they get a better realisation or there being a whole world outside the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali B Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 No one said kids at private schools were nicer. What I did say was that all you can really hope to get from paying to send your kids to private school is a better peer group, you can't guarantee they'll work any harder or get better grades. But you can 'hope' that through mingling with the children from wealthier families (or those that make sacrafices for their kids) - and whether people like it or no affordability is a barrier to entry for private schools - that they get a better realisation or there being a whole world outside the school. Peaches, you are so misguided. Having taught over 6000 students for 32 years in 9 schools, I can only say you are utterly and absolutely wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.