What's wrong with the schooling here?

[ali]

DS only had 6 months of UK education and I LOVED the school and the teacher so it was a bit of a shock coming here to a massive school after a small one in the UK.

 

It has grown on me though and the new principal is implementing a lot of good stuff. There are good extension programmes, music, sport etc. There is a lot more "freedom" which freaked me out a bit but actually turns out to be a good thing for them and learning responsibility and doing the right thing. They also have some great strategies for dealing with bad behaviour.

One thing I'm really impressed with is the emphasis on confidence and so many activities where they talk in front of the class. My son does "show and tell" every week which has done his confidence no end of good.

 

I remember the first time my hubby dropped our son off at his new school and my son just dumped his bag and went into class .. hubby was freaking out and saying "he can't just do that" ... at his school in the UK there was a bell, first bell everyone had to stand still in the playground, second bell was to line up in classes and then "to proceed in an orderly fashion" with the teacher leading.

[Phoenix16]

Maybe folk choose an affordable private education because they hope to buy their children into a better peer group? After all a child who doesn't apply themselves sent to the best school will come out just as uneducated as the child who doesn't apply themselves in the public system. Being around kids with grander aspirations at the private school - and hoping they rub off - is the minimum a parent can hope for.

 

i keep reading your comment to check I've actually read it right?? What a load of crap and actually pretty insulting....

 

Why do kids at private schools have grander aspirations???? I send my daughter to a private school, simply because she was seriously struggling, not educationally but emotionally, she had very low self esteem and resilience, she was in a class of 28, some of whom had disability both physically and mentally and required support, in the mix of all of this the teachers simply did not have the capacity and time to nurture my daughter, they flagged up their concerns but readily accepted they could not really address this. my daughter is a lone child, gets lots of support at home but obviously needed more. The school she was at was a good school but nevertheless we have moved her to a private school, there are sacrifices to be made but she is now thriving emotionally. I cannot say it's because the private school is 'better' but for her, the environment and approach is working, she is happy, I would not say she is intellectually more advanced, she is simply going to school every day, she is loving it, she is being emotionally and physically challenged in a way that she responds very positively too and all round she is now just a happy, contented child whose confidence grows more and more mad for us the financial burden and sacrifices are worth it.

 

By the way, I know all her class mates, lovely lovely girls, none of them (or their parents) have grandeur aspirations whatsoever.........

[ali]

i keep reading your comment to check I've actually read it right?? What a load of crap and actually pretty insulting....

 

Why do kids at private schools have grander aspirations???? I send my daughter to a private school, simply because she was seriously struggling, not educationally but emotionally, she had very low self esteem and resilience, she was in a class of 28, some of whom had disability both physically and mentally and required support, in the mix of all of this the teachers simply did not have the capacity and time to nurture my daughter, they flagged up their concerns but readily accepted they could not really address this. my daughter is a lone child, gets lots of support at home but obviously needed more. The school she was at was a good school but nevertheless we have moved her to a private school, there are sacrifices to be made but she is now thriving emotionally. I cannot say it's because the private school is 'better' but for her, the environment and approach is working, she is happy, I would not say she is intellectually more advanced, she is simply going to school every day, she is loving it, she is being emotionally and physically challenged in a way that she responds very positively too and all round she is now just a happy, contented child whose confidence grows more and more mad for us the financial burden and sacrifices are worth it.

 

By the way, I know all her class mates, lovely lovely girls, none of them (or their parents) have grandeur aspirations whatsoever.........

 

I think it depends on the school and parents (I don't disagree with Peaches comments in some instances) ... I had someone mention to me when talking about their daughter that they were out at a party .. and added in the same sentence "she goes to private school and they're all loaded"

[Phoenix16]

I think it depends on the school and parents (I don't disagree with Peaches comments in some instances) ... I had someone mention to me when talking about their daughter that they were out at a party .. and added in the same sentence "she goes to private school and they're all loaded"

 

To be honest I can agree! I'm perhaps a little touchy as my motives definitely weren't to 'improve the peer group' just worried to bits about my kid! But I remember on my first week at the new school I got the most pompous arrogant father ranting at me about his daughters missing jumper as he thought I was the temporary teaching assistant (and no disrespect there just his ignorant arrogance), it really knocked my confidence and I shied away from any parent events as I assumed they were all the same, luckily after a few kiddies parties and getting to know the mums I learned that they all think he's an arrogant prat, some of them are very fortunate financially, but many are also making the sacrifices, I have to say all in all very, very nice people and since the girls are now together until year 12 there is a good bond developing across the board!!

[Bound4Tassie]

How did you get to the 1:8 nursery ratio? My 3 year old is at nursery here and it is brilliant, she loves it and the staff are fantastic and that is 1:6 but there are always additional staff around. A lot more expensive here than UK, Base rate is $430 a week for my daughters nursery but that includes all meals, sunscreen, hats, nappies if applicable which we think is great as we didn't have that in the UK - You get the CCR so not actually that bad in comparison.

 

Don't read too much into it, i think you can only truly decide once you have been to see a few schools yourself, I don't think you can make a sound judgement on what you read.

 

I don't think nursery prices sound that bad! We were paying over £50 a day in Bedford which is about the equivalent of $466 a week and had to provide everything nappies/wipes/sudocrem/sunscreen/formula etc etc ! Admittedly up here in the north it's a bit cheaper!

[ali]

To be honest I can agree! I'm perhaps a little touchy as my motives definitely weren't to 'improve the peer group' just worried to bits about my kid! But I remember on my first week at the new school I got the most pompous arrogant father ranting at me about his daughters missing jumper as he thought I was the temporary teaching assistant (and no disrespect there just his ignorant arrogance), it really knocked my confidence and I shied away from any parent events as I assumed they were all the same, luckily after a few kiddies parties and getting to know the mums I learned that they all think he's an arrogant prat, some of them are very fortunate financially, but many are also making the sacrifices, I have to say all in all very, very nice people and since the girls are now together until year 12 there is a good bond developing across the board!!

 

I can agree about the friendship group, on her first day in HS my daughter was faced with sitting with 2 girls she didn't know or a group of boys - she chose the girls - despite being at different Uni's they've still the firmest of friends, they're great girls from lovely families who have very similar values to our own. Similarly, my son is still friends with boys who were allocated as being his 'buddy' when he started at PS in year 2.

[Ali B]

Im a secondary school teacher. I can only speak for eastern suburbs Melbourne. The government schools in this area are great. I don't support private education from an educational or social perspective but over here theres a solid mix of private and government.

 

Prep to Grade 6 (UK equiv of yr1-7) are almost always decent, well resourced, small classes of around 22-25. Teachers here are paid more and have more preparation time. Their morale is higher and it shows in the atmosphere.

 

Secondaries go from Yr7-12 (uk yr8-13) and the government ones here are all decent in content and curriculum delivery, tho goverment schools have been run down in buildings. You see a lot of shabby carpet and broken windows, which looks crap alongside sparkly private schools with plants in hallways. Choose where/how to spend your money. We put our three kids through local govt schools and spent our surplus money on camps, music lessons, sport, dance and holidays in fun places. Your call. They have done well here and in smaller classes with happier staff.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I haven't read all the thread but want to ask the question, do you think it's down to each individual student and teacher rather than the school as a whole? Maybe our wonderful maths teacher can answer that?

The reason I ask is, take my son for an example, he loved Japanese he never got below an A for term work or exams, the teacher said he was the best in class. She then left to have a baby, his first report with a new teacher was a D. Now this was in no way the schools fault but it was the fault of either my son who just didn't want to work hard for this new teacher, or this new teacher taught and marked a totally different way.

[Ali B]

Yep TPQ you are spot on. And thats the case in UK or Oz. Theres good and bad in every school and honestly just as many bad in private schools as in government ones. You just don't have to waste thousands for bad teachers if your kids are in govt schools! Also theres more transparency of qualifications and processes and accountability in govt schools. If we dont jump through hoops we lose registration.

[caramac]

Im a secondary school teacher. I can only speak for eastern suburbs Melbourne. The government schools in this area are great. I don't support private education from an educational or social perspective but over here theres a solid mix of private and government.

 

Prep to Grade 6 (UK equiv of yr1-7) are almost always decent, well resourced, small classes of around 22-25. Teachers here are paid more and have more preparation time. Their morale is higher and it shows in the atmosphere.

 

Secondaries go from Yr7-12 (uk yr8-13) and the government ones here are all decent in content and curriculum delivery, tho goverment schools have been run down in buildings. You see a lot of shabby carpet and broken windows, which looks crap alongside sparkly private schools with plants in hallways. Choose where/how to spend your money. We put our three kids through local govt schools and spent our surplus money on camps, music lessons, sport, dance and holidays in fun places. Your call. They have done well here and in smaller classes with happier staff.

 

 

 

State primary schools in the UK go from R- year 6 and secondary from year 7 - 11 or 13, unless they're in a three tier area where they go from R - 3/4, 4/5 - 8/9 and 8/9 - 11 or 13.

I would agree re morale especially since Gove, but none of the schools my friends children have gone to have had larger classes. My daughter had 35 in her first year in primary in Aus. Again, it depends where you are and the school you're looking at.

[Ali B]

State primary schools in the UK go from R- year 6 and secondary from year 7 - 11 or 13, unless they're in a three tier area where they go from R - 3/4, 4/5 - 8/9 and 8/9 - 11 or 13

 

yep thanks caramac - i know i taught at home in uk for 20 yrs before emigrating ) - people often think yr7 UK = yr 7 Oz and they arent the same. 18 yr olds qualify here in yr12.

 

 

I would agree re morale especially since Gove, but none of the schools my friends children have gone to have had larger classes. My daughter had 35 in her first year in primary in Aus. Again, it depends where you are and the school you're looking at.

35 in any class in Oz is very unusual as numbers are capped by government/unions. Was it private?

[caramac]

35 in any class in Oz is very unusual as numbers are capped by government/unions. Was it private?

 

No, but it was a while ago, so things must have changed. Same here really. I don't know anyone who's had that many in their class, but then, we've never lived in London!

There were 20 in her private school class. They wouldn't go above that until year 3 when they took four more.

[Gbye grey sky]

Seen 3 schools. All private. At a senior level. Massively impressed. All different but all strong in their chosen focus.

 

Hi Vandeux. I have been thinking about you both and wondering how you were getting on with the schools as I know they are the same ones that we saw (well 2 out of 3 anyway). We, or rather our daughter, chose Sheldon and have a place from next October though we were impressed with all of them. You can PM if you prefer but curious how you viewed the options.

[jac2011]

Iv no experience of Aus schools but in my childrens primary in the UK I do have to say they only have around 24 in the class and if it starts getting larger then they will split 2 year groups into 3 classes to keep the numbers down. It is a smaller country school though so I presume this isnt normal.

[Gbye grey sky]

Iv no experience of Aus schools but in my childrens primary in the UK I do have to say they only have around 24 in the class and if it starts getting larger then they will split 2 year groups into 3 classes to keep the numbers down. It is a smaller country school though so I presume this isnt normal.

 

Definitely not here. The primary reason we opted to take our daughter out and place her in a private school is that there were at least 30 per class in the two local schools and our daughter was one of the invisible children who was well behaved but a bit lazy so was able to go unnoticed. It was apparent when you met the teachers that they really didn't know who she was. They were oversubscribed though not highly rated. Think that is typical in the south east of England.

[jac2011]

I think I was lucky, its a lovely village South of Nottingham, whilst the schools in Nottingham are struggling this school appeared to just stay off people's radar as it was out of the City itself. Its rated outstanding too but it is never over subscribed. The head is fantastic and she honestly knows each child well, she knows and talks to the parents each day at the front of school. She doesn't forget your name, or grandparents if they visit for school plays. It really shocked me. I do worry that I will miss that in Australia but I am sure I will find it again. After all, we moved to Nottingham with the sole plan that in 4 years time we would emigrate.

[caramac]

Definitely not here. The primary reason we opted to take our daughter out and place her in a private school is that there were at least 30 per class in the two local schools and our daughter was one of the invisible children who was well behaved but a bit lazy so was able to go unnoticed. It was apparent when you met the teachers that they really didn't know who she was. They were oversubscribed though not highly rated. Think that is typical in the south east of England.

 

 

Exactly why why we moved ours. Well behaved, but able to get away with doing the bare minimum. We've never regretted it. I hope your daughter loves her new school (Sheldon was on our list had we moved to Melbourne - we know a girl who went there and she loved it! She was lovely too).

[Gbye grey sky]

Exactly why why we moved ours. Well behaved, but able to get away with doing the bare minimum. We've never regretted it. I hope your daughter loves her new school (Sheldon was on our list had we moved to Melbourne - we know a girl who went there and she loved it! She was lovely too).

 

Thanks Caramac but that must be a different Sheldon School as we are headed for Redlandshire, south of Brisbane.

[MARYROSE02]

There is nothing wrong with the schools here.

[caramac]

Thanks Caramac but that must be a different Sheldon School as we are headed for Redlandshire, south of Brisbane.

 

 

Ah. Sorry. I'm sure they'll be lovely too. :cute:

[Ali B]

For those of you looking at class sizes check out this link for Victoria including Melbourne.

http://www.education.vic.gov.au/Documents/about/department/statsvicschbrochure.pdf. Especially paragraph 12 on class size (see graphic below)

 

Classes are generally a lot smaller in Oz generally than UK so kids get massively more attention. Aussies will moan about government schools because they have nothing to compare their experiences to! Ive taught 33 to a class in Sth London. Believe me many many GOVT schools in Victoria would be on a par with UK private schools. I really think you don't need to buy private education in Oz to get a good school for kids but like anywhere do your research and live in zone for a good govt school with good rep.

[Bound4Tassie]

My husband would take issue with this! Being an Aussie qualified teacher but taught over here for 8/9 yrs - he hates the education system here. He has been a deputy head and also done supply teaching, so worked in a variety of schools. He feels it is far too focussed on attainment targets as such a young age. For example he has been working in the Reception class ie the first yr of 'proper' school. He HAS to take a photo on an ipod linked to each individual pupil everytime they achieve one of ofsteds bullet points! There are 30 kids in a class so he spends all day documenting this evidence. When can you teach?? And for gods sake these kids just started school a few days ago and yet are immediately under assessment!

And marking ... If it took 5 mins.to.mark a book x 30 kids - that's 2.5hrs....just for 1 subject ( and there's numeracy, literacy, science,RE, god knows what else.)

Where is a human being meant to find all these hours in a day as well as teach?? And then to do all the lesson planning?

And the Uk does not financially reward teachers...so no wonder morale is low!

So my point is, the UK education system leaves a lot to be desired unless you are happy with your child being taught by passionless worn out shells of previously enthusiastic teachers!

Edited September 12, 2014 by Bound4Tassie

[Ali B]

My husband would take issue with this! Being an Aussie qualified teacher but taught over here for 8/9 yrs - he hates the education system here. He has been a deputy head and also done supply teaching, so worked in a variety of schools. He feels it is far too focussed on attainment targets as such a young age. For example he has been working in the Reception class ie the first yr of 'proper' school. He HAS to take a photo on an ipod linked to each individual pupil everytime they achieve one of ofsteds bullet points! There are 30 kids in a class so he spends all day documenting this evidence. When can you teach??

 

Agreed B4T ! Tho I hope you don't take issue with the stats I posted from Melbourne! They are an official source!

I taught for 20 yrs in UK (London Sussex Brighton) and 14 yrs here in Melbourne. I hear from old colleagues the UK is crazy for attainment targets and evidence.

Attainment is of course monitored here in Oz too but it's more realistic and manageable. Plus classes of 22-25 mean that you can sit, talk and review work with students. I loved having my Yr 8 & 9 students sit with me this week at my desk and just talk to me about the projects they have just finished. That NEVER happened in UK. There was never time. I actually KNOW kids as people.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Ali B

[Peach]

i keep reading your comment to check I've actually read it right?? What a load of crap and actually pretty insulting....

 

Why do kids at private schools have grander aspirations????

 

Kids at private schools are more likely to have parents with professional jobs and wealthier economic backgrounds, conversely in public schools the opposite is often true. So do you want your kids to hang out with children who know what working hard can achieve or the children whose families rely on benefits, don't work, or where being a larrikin with the police is part of the norm? Obviously there are great public schools and not so great private ones.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Peach

[Bound4Tassie]

Sorry post was not aimed at you AliB! You must have posted while I was typing! It's just aimed at all the people saying oz is so far behind in education. No, it isn't. It's a different approach. Finland is said to have one of the best education systems. They don't start formal learning until 7! They outstrip us when it comes to high school results!

All the UK schools have loved the way my husband teaches and he was asked to teach other Uk teachers his behaviour management techniques (acquired through the Aus teaching degree / practice) so they must be doing something right in Australia!

Edited September 12, 2014 by Bound4Tassie