Are you 'comfortable' with Australia's handling of Tamil asylum seekers at sea?

[Parley]

Are you glad the 41 will face 'two years of rigorous imprisonment and a fine'?

 

Does that make you happy, seeing them punished?

 

Sounds harsh if that is the penalty. I doubt it will be.

But if they have broken the law I'm not surprised the police wanting to look into it. If only to try to arrest the people smuggler.

[Parley]

As I said, many thousands have done exactly that. Not because they are desperate, or persecuted, but because they want a better life in Australia.

They pay something like $10000 to $20000 each for the passage.

[betterskierthanthewife]

As I said, many thousands have done exactly that. Not because they are desperate, or persecuted, but because they want a better life in Australia.

They pay something like $10000 to $20000 each for the passage.

 

So you honestly don't think that someone who is prepared to pay $10,000+ for a long and uncomfortably journey on a rickety boat across an Ocean is desperate?

 

You still haven't actually answered my question, try again: Would you board a rickety boat to cross an Ocean? Would you pay $10,000+?

 

I'm migrating to Australia in January, paid less than a £grand each for my wife, kids and myself for a flight aboard a well known and respected airline. I couldn't countenance paying a lot more to make the journey on a rickety boat, indeed I'd have to be desperate.....

Edited July 7, 2014 by betterskierthanthewife

[Parley]

The difference is you can get a visa. These people will not get here legally any other way. That doesn't mean they are necessarily refugees though.

[docboat]

The difference is you can get a visa. These people will not get here legally any other way. That doesn't mean they are necessarily refugees though.

 

And this is the nub of it. Undoubtedly, life is better here. Undoubtedly, getting here by hook or by crook will give your children a better future. The desperation to ensure a better future for yourself is clear. But you are not necessarily a refugee. You may, however, call yourself a refugee and ensure that enough people swallow the lie to gain entrance the country. You can even smuggle yourself in large numbers with refugees, and pass yourself off as being in danger in your homeland.

[noworriesmate]

And this is the nub of it. Undoubtedly, life is better here. Undoubtedly, getting here by hook or by crook will give your children a better future. The desperation to ensure a better future for yourself is clear. But you are not necessarily a refugee. You may, however, call yourself a refugee and ensure that enough people swallow the lie to gain entrance the country. You can even smuggle yourself in large numbers with refugees, and pass yourself off as being in danger in your homeland.

 

I take your point but the issue is the starting point in the way the government deal with this. In law there is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty but the government has taken the view that some on here appear to in that EVERYONE who attempts to come to Australia by boat is doing so illegally. There are many of us who are really concerned at the way the current government is showing zero compassion and breaking laws in the meantime. I happen to have spent a fair bit of time talking with Asylum seekers and It really concerns me that the government are doing everything covertly, illegally and without ANY compassion. I am all for non-genuine asylum seekers being sent home but it MUST be after due process and within international law. Many of the actions the government is now resorting to is cruel by any standards and it is that that I oppose - not the sentiments of those worried about protecting our borders which I happen to also agree with.

 

NWM

[betterskierthanthewife]

The difference is you can get a visa. These people will not get here legally any other way. That doesn't mean they are necessarily refugees though.

 

Still avoiding the question?

[Harpodom]

Sounds harsh if that is the penalty. I doubt it will be.

But if they have broken the law I'm not surprised the police wanting to look into it. If only to try to arrest the people smuggler.

 

And you're confident of that are you?

[Harpodom]

And this is the nub of it. Undoubtedly, life is better here. Undoubtedly, getting here by hook or by crook will give your children a better future. The desperation to ensure a better future for yourself is clear. But you are not necessarily a refugee. You may, however, call yourself a refugee and ensure that enough people swallow the lie to gain entrance the country. You can even smuggle yourself in large numbers with refugees, and pass yourself off as being in danger in your homeland.

Honest question to you.

 

Does it give you pleasure to think these people are being punished? That they will probably be 'rigorously' imprisoned, possibly even tortured? Does Sri Lanka's dodgy human rights record not make you worry about their safety?

 

Likewise, does it give you satisfaction that people (including unaccompanied children) are locked up in offshore detention indefinitely, subjected to degrading treatment, de-humanised, made effectively invisible? For what reason? Oh, yeah, to set an example to the vast hoards of 'others'

 

I know you'll deny it, but that is what I'm hearing, loud and clear. Not just from you by the way.

 

I just don't understand what makes people like you tick.

[Sammy1]

Honest question to you.

 

Does it give you pleasure to think these people are being punished? That they will probably be 'rigorously' imprisoned, possibly even tortured? Does Sri Lanka's dodgy human rights record not make you worry about their safety?

 

Likewise, does it give you satisfaction that people (including unaccompanied children) are locked up in offshore detention indefinitely, subjected to degrading treatment, de-humanised, made effectively invisible? For what reason? Oh, yeah, to set an example to the vast hoards of 'others'

 

I know you'll deny it, but that is what I'm hearing, loud and clear. Not just from you by the way.

 

I just don't understand what makes people like you tick.

 

I once again go back to the thousands of people that overstay their 'legal' visas each and every year. The vast proportion of illegal over stayers are British. Who (lucky things that they are), come from a developed and persecution free country and are able to pretty easily obtain a work visa.

 

Of course there is barely an outcry and more often than not, there is sympathy on here for European over stayers and the predicament they find themselves in.

 

So, I wonder what punishment should be dished out in those cases? A three year ban is the norm, but wait, the general tone on this forum is that 'illegals' should be dealt with harshly. Perhaps they should be imprisoned instead. Can you imagine the outcry if that was to occur? The breach of human rights?

 

I think so many have allowed themselves to become led,fed and ultimately brainwashed by the mass media that empathy is lost along the way and instead replaced by fear of the other.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Sammy1

[starlight7]

Visa overstayers should be shipped off to Manus Island too until they have their claims sorted. Could take years. That's fair.

[Harpodom]

Punish them all!!

[caramac]

I take your point but the issue is the starting point in the way the government deal with this. In law there is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty but the government has taken the view that some on here appear to in that EVERYONE who attempts to come to Australia by boat is doing so illegally. There are many of us who are really concerned at the way the current government is showing zero compassion and breaking laws in the meantime. I happen to have spent a fair bit of time talking with Asylum seekers and It really concerns me that the government are doing everything covertly, illegally and without ANY compassion. I am all for non-genuine asylum seekers being sent home but it MUST be after due process and within international law. Many of the actions the government is now resorting to is cruel by any standards and it is that that I oppose - not the sentiments of those worried about protecting our borders which I happen to also agree with.

 

NWM

 

 

:notworthy:

[Harpodom]

Apparently around 80% of Channel 9 viewers are 'comfortable'. Quite a large sample too.

 

VOTE

 

Is it right to return asylum seekers to Sri Lanka?

 

88502

 

19883

[Harpodom]

Meanwhile, the numbers (as well as sample size) are VERY different on ABC's The drum:

 

The Federal Government has confirmed that 41 asylum seekers were processed at sea and transferred to the Sri Lankan navy. Do you support this action?[TABLE=class: vc_results_table poll-results-table]

[TR]

[TD=class: poll-results-answer]No[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-percentage]75%[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-bar votecentral_resultbar][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: poll-results-answer]Yes[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-percentage]24%[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-bar votecentral_resultbar][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: poll-results-answer]Unsure[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-percentage]2%[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-bar votecentral_resultbar][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

2902 votes counted

[Harpodom]

Apparently around 80% of Channel 9 viewers are 'comfortable'. Quite a large sample too.

 

VOTE

 

Is it right to return asylum seekers to Sri Lanka?

 

88502

 

19883

 

Meanwhile, the numbers (as well as sample size) are VERY different on ABC's The drum:

 

The Federal Government has confirmed that 41 asylum seekers were processed at sea and transferred to the Sri Lankan navy. Do you support this action?[TABLE=class: vc_results_table poll-results-table]

[TR]

[TD=class: poll-results-answer]No[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-percentage]75%[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-bar votecentral_resultbar][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: poll-results-answer]Yes[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-percentage]24%[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-bar votecentral_resultbar][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: poll-results-answer]Unsure[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-percentage]2%[/TD]

[TD=class: poll-results-bar votecentral_resultbar][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

2902 votes counted

 

Conclusions?

 

Well, the 'bogan' vote completely outnumbers the 'educated' one, as evidenced by the sample size.

 

And as the bogans are SO in favour of govt actions, the asylum seekers are pretty f@@ked, unless the high court steps in and stops this madness.

 

Scott Morrison KNOWS he has majority support for his actions. This isn't the only such poll to show up Australians as lacking in compassion (or IMO the ability to think critically), other recent polls indicate that between 60-70% of Australians favour offshore processing, towbacks and even harsher measures.

[Parley]

So anyone who watches Channel 9 is a bogan ? is that it ?

 

or do you mean most Australians are bogans ?

 

Maybe the high court will turn out to be bogans ?

Edited July 7, 2014 by parleycross

[mattmcleod2]

The answer to all this is not easy. I believe a very small percentage of these people are legitimate refugees however I also believe there are people abusing the system and trying to gain easy access to Australia. I have an English friend who has been trying to get Permission to live in Australia as her daughter lives here but with still no success. She would be fully self supported and never ask the government for a cent. You never hear about this sort of thing though because she understands there is a process

 

At some point if Australia accepted every single person that arrived by boat we would eventually have 2 major problems. The first being that at some point the country would be spending billions upon billions of dollars allowing people to stay here to the point where financially as a country the burden would be to great. Secondly for our own safety and yes I am not being dramatic we have to screen the "refugees" to make sure they are who they say. I have problems with the ways both side of politics handle it but there is no one easy solution and Harpodom if you have a solution I would love to hear it. There has to be a balance of helping genuine refugees and sending the rest back so that they do not burden Australia's economic future

Edited July 7, 2014 by mattmcleod2

[Harpodom]

So anyone who watches Channel 9 is a bogan ? is that it ?

 

or do you mean most Australians are bogans ?

 

Maybe the high court will turn out to be bogans ?

 

Pretty much, yeah. I've tried watching it and it's reminiscent of this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4jQttzATo8

[Ausborn]

Let's just destroy Australia like the poms did to the uk over the last 40 yrs. let them all in. I'd love to take some of you through our lower class suburbs and show you some families.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Ausborn

[flag of convenience]

OK so now we all have the ability to pass judgment based on how we view past performance, may not be the same view or judgment as yours, and does not mean either are right or wrong, everybody to their own, but there are only a few that choose to push their view down other peoples throats as being the only right one and are unwilling to accept the views of others, even if they appear to agree on some points.

 

If you agree with breaking International Legal Agreements as being ok I suppose. I would consider the appalling treatment of human beings, especially those not broken any law, in no shape or form can be considered otherwise, and called an opinion, a mere detail, by any considerate, thinking person by a government in order for political gain. It is a blight on Australia and discredits the nation's previous international image.

There is no other way to think about it and yes treating people with decency is the only correct manner for a state to conduce itself and no the tabloid opinion is null and void in the matter concerned.

[flag of convenience]

refo....refou....refoule.....refoulement?

 

I wonder if something suggestive in that the English language doesn't even have a word for it?

[Harpodom]

The answer to all this is not easy. I believe a very small percentage of these people are legitimate refugees however I also believe there are people abusing the system and trying to gain easy access to Australia. I have an English friend who has been trying to get Permission to live in Australia as her daughter lives here but with still no success. She would be fully self supported and never ask the government for a cent. You never hear about this sort of thing though because she understands there is a process

 

At some point if Australia accepted every single person that arrived by boat we would eventually have 2 major problems. The first being that at some point the country would be spending billions upon billions of dollars allowing people to stay here to the point where financially as a country the burden would be to great. Secondly for our own safety and yes I am not being dramatic we have to screen the "refugees" to make sure they are who they say. I have problems with the ways both side of politics handle it but there is no one easy solution and Harpodom if you have a solution I would love to hear it. There has to be a balance of helping genuine refugees and sending the rest back so that they do not burden Australia's economic future

 

So your 'solution' is just to swallow whole whatever the govt tells you? Not much of a solution that, sounds more like apathy.

 

At what point do they cross the line into territory which makes you think twice about what they are doing?

 

You asked me for a solution. The ONLY solution is to follow international law and respect human rights AND to construct regional agreements that do the same.

 

You want to stop the flow of refugee movements. I don't think that is even possible. By stopping the flow of refugees to Australia you're just deflecting the misery to somewhere else.

 

Billions are already being spent on Operation Sovereign Borders. It isn't cost effective: refugees and asylum seekers could be much more cheaply 'processed' in the community, with work rights and permanent protection. I don't accept your argument that refugees and asylum seekers are by definition a burden on society. The vast majority are desperate to be given a 'fair go' and work their arses off to prove themselves. This has been shown to be the case ever since refugees started coming to Australia since WW2.

[flag of convenience]

Why obviously ?

It is not obvious to me at all.

 

Rather obvious that. Then the state breaking the law appears to hold very little concern for you anyway. Rather a preference to gloat about it.

[flag of convenience]

Sounds harsh if that is the penalty. I doubt it will be.

But if they have broken the law I'm not surprised the police wanting to look into it. If only to try to arrest the people smuggler.

 

You really are naïve aren't you?