Isabelt28 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I guess that adds more weight to Alan's point about getting the timing of a defacto application right.... So he's not in breach of his visa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I guess that adds more weight to Alan's point about getting the timing of a defacto application right.... So he's not in breach of his visa Yes, this is a case which really needs a good migration agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 He could hardly claim he's not "accompanied" by a dependent child since the mother is Australian, then turn around and ask for compassionate consideration of a de facto visa because he has a child with his Australian partner. While there are times I think perhaps people can consider not using an agent, I wouldn't consider this one of them. Even if you simply get some guidance on what your options are and what you need to do. Alan is a well-respected member of this forum, and Go Matilda is a frequent name you see when someone asks for recommendation of agents. I wouldn't dismiss his comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killara Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 You're not allowed to be accompanied by any dependent children in Aus on a working holiday visa. So as soon as the kid is born, he will be in breach. I don't consider that a child born in Australia in these circumstances would be a breach of the working holiday visa conditions. The condition is that the Minister is satisfied that the visa applicant (for the WHV) will not be accompanied by dependent children during his or her stay in Australia and is set out in the regulations as a criteria to be satisfied at time of application for the visa and at the time of a decision being made on the WHV application. If it was not known or anticipated at time of WHV application and grant that he would become accompanied by a dependent child then I don't think DIBP could make out the case that there was any breach of visa conditions, and I would consider it highly unlikely that DIBP would seek cancellation of the WHV following an Australian citizen child being born - it would be perverse to cancel the visa of a parent of an Australian citizen child (and consequently expel from Australia the parent) on the sole ground that the parent is now accompanied by a dependent child - that child being a citizen of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 It IS considered a breach of the whv conditions if a child is born in these circumstances. We have seen it many times on this forum. The whv says that you are not to be accompanied by dependent children at any time of the visa, not just when you apply. You can have children, they just can't be with you, even for a holiday. As I'm sure you know as an agent, there are many times when a parent of an Australian child can not stay in the country with them. Perverse? Sad certainly, but thems the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Wow. Note to self, don't use Go Matilda Visas. Some people know nothing and cannot be told anything. In the last dicey one I got through (after an urgent pro bono MRT review) the parties had lived together for 6 weeks and had not seen each other for 18 months at the time of application, but they demonstrably had maintained their de facto relationship. Are you thinking what I am thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killara Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 It IS considered a breach of the whv conditions if a child is born in these circumstances. The legislation provides that not being accompanied by a dependent child is a criteria of the WHV which must be met at the time of visa application and at the time of grant of the visa. It does involve a forward-looking exercise at the time it is being considered, to consider whether the visa applicant might be accompanied by a dependent child at some point during the visa validity. The decision-maker (the Minister or the Minister's delegate) must be satisfied that the WHV applicant will not be accompanied by a dependent child during the validity of the visa. If the decision maker is not satisfied of this - considers at that time that the WHV might be accompanied in Australia at some point by a dependent child, then the visa will not be granted. A WHV could be cancelled if it transpired that the visa applicant purposely misled DIBP when making the visa application (such as for example knowing at the time of the visa application or grant that they or their partner were pregnant and would give birth while they were in Australia). When the WHV is granted, it does not have a condition that the visa holder not be accompanied by a dependent child in Australia during the validity of the visa (but the visa could be subject to cancellation if the visa holder had misled the Department at time of visa application or grant). I will edit this post later and include a link to the applicable regulation (was going to link to austlii site - but it is down at the moment). [ http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2013C01002/Html/Volume_4#_Toc374087524 for ComLaw link] As I'm sure you know as an agent, there are many times when a parent of an Australian child can not stay in the country with them. It is true that there are many times when a parent of an Australian child can not stay in Australia - but that relates to the non-Australian parent not being able to apply for a visa, or their current visa expiring or being cancelled (for reasons other than having an Australian citizen child). But that is very different to cancelling the visa of a non-Australian parent due to having an Australian-citizen child. A WHV visa holder could have their visa cancelled if they had misled the Department at the time of application or visa grant (including not providing information to the Department, known to the visa applicant at the time of visa application or grant, about the visa applicant's circumstances). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Surely there is a BIG problem in that you can't apply for a whv while in Australia, so at the time of application or visa grant most people would be with their dependent children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think the issue is what is meant by "accompanied", which is not defined in the legislation. I would not view the WHV holder as being accompanied for immigration purposes by a child who is an Australian citizen and being in the care of an Australian citizen. The bit about being accompanied by a dependent child seems to me to refer to non-citizens who would need to accompany the primary visa holder on a secondary visa or who might require the state to intervene to support the welfare of the child. As a citizen, the child is automatically entitled to state welfare and does not require a visa. The whole "vibe" of Australian law is to ensure that Australian kids can live in Australia with their parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killara Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Surely there is a BIG problem in that you can't apply for a whv while in Australia, so at the time of application or visa grant most people would be with their dependent children? The fact that you cannot apply for a (first) working holiday visa while in Australia is not relevant to the dependent child consideration. On a first working holiday visa application, where you must be outside Australia, if you have dependent children, you need to be able to satisfy the Department that those dependent children are not going to accompany you to Australia - this could be the case for example if the other parent, also outside Australia, has sole custody of the child and confirms that the child will not be travelling to Australia. The Department would need to assess whether they are satisfied that the dependent child would not later travel to Australia to be with the WHV visa holder (following grant). Any misleading by the visa applicant about that, could lead to the cancellation of the visa. But the criteria not to be accompanied by a dependent child would not amount to a breach of WHV visa conditions where a child is born in Australia during the visa validity, and this eventuality was not known or anticipated by the visa applicant at the time of visa application or grant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 He is advertising his business at the bottom. He isn't exactly working for free. But he didn't advise the OP to use his company - he recommended someone in WA who i'm assuming (knowing Alan) has some expertise in this type of visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 My partner and I haven't been together for a full 12 months however we are expecting our first child in July... my partners visa expires at the end of August. Does anyone know if we will have any problems with our visa application? Stacey - can I ask how long you and your partner have actually been together as a couple, whilst I appreciate you're having a child together, I also thought that defacto visa's were also about proving length of relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 But he didn't advise the OP to use his company - he recommended someone in WA who i'm assuming (knowing Alan) has some expertise in this type of visa. That's not correct. Alan also included a link to his own business in the body of his message (which I think is fair enough, as it goes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 But he didn't advise the OP to use his company - he recommended someone in WA who i'm assuming (knowing Alan) has some expertise in this type of visa. I was just responding to the comment that he was working for free. Every time he responds it is promoting his company in the signature. I don't have an issue with it, but was just pointing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I was just responding to the comment that he was working for free. Every time he responds it is promoting his company in the signature. I don't have an issue with it, but was just pointing it out. And without agents like him ,willing to spend hours a week, over years and years, helping point forum members in the right direction, the forum would not have half the info it does and would contain 100% 'hear say'. Forums that dont contain good factual info tend not to last long. Anyone with any business from an agent to a window cleaner can have a signature containing a link on this forum, its in the forum rules and is in a way a 'perk' , a way of PIO saying thanks for taking time to be on our forum giving info to our members, when you could easily be charging for it over the phone. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Can't believe posters are knit picking about the help MA's give on PIO. A big thank you to them from me over the years I have been a member. Would think more have been helped than hindered by their free advice, and if as an off shoot they have picked up business then why should that bother any one. Do your own visa if you want and use an MA if you want, it's a personal decision, and nobodies business but your own, but recommendation goes a long way when choosing an MA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I was just responding to the comment that he was working for free. Every time he responds it is promoting his company in the signature. I don't have an issue with it, but was just pointing it out. Alan has no choice but to have his signature, he wouldn't be permitted on the forum otherwise. If he personally chose to have it there then I would agree with you but agents don't get this choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wow. Note to self, don't use Go Matilda Visas. And its people like yourself that turn agents away from forums like this and from offering free advice. Alan has rescued numerous members of this forum when another agent vanished with their money He did this free of charge and from the goodness of his heart. He also stayed up very late one night helping members submit their applications after a deadline for submissions had been put in place, half of the members didn't even know about this deadline and if it wasn't for Alan there would be quite a few members without their visa or any way in to Australia. I see you have only been registered on the forum a few months, maybe when you have been here 8 years and seen all the help the agents on the forum have offered members free of charge you can judge. We have some damn good agents on here, in fact I bet we have over 150 as well as DIAC officials(who remain anonymous) but how many stay around to offer help, I bet I can count them on one hand and that's because of people like yourself who attack them at every given opportunity. What you forget is that agents see what goes on behind the scenes, people who try getting a visa themselves and mess up and then go running to an agent to put it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Can't believe posters are knit picking about the help MA's give on PIO. A big thank you to them from me over the years I have been a member. Would think more have been helped than hindered by their free advice, and if as an off shoot they have picked up business then why should that bother any one. Do your own visa if you want and use an MA if you want, it's a personal decision, and nobodies business but your own, but recommendation goes a long way when choosing an MA. Im sure it's very helpful having an MAs on here, nobody is disputing that. But it isn't free advice as such unless you are suggesting that they make no business from PIO posters? It makes great business sense for them to post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Im sure it's very helpful having an MAs on here, nobody is disputing that. But it isn't free advice as such unless you are suggesting that they make no business from PIO posters? It makes great business sense for them to post Yes it is free advice, they are not charging full stop so its free. If they manage to pick some business up along the way then good for them, but they have still offered free advice on the forum. Anyway let's get back to helping the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 well one good turn deserves another as far as I can determine, if you receive free unconditional advise, but you or others can see the need for more then the obvious place to go would be where the free info came from. It's part of sales tactics not gimmicks, and in this case I believe a more agreeable, genuine and applaudable tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 well one good turn deserves another as far as I can determine, if you receive free unconditional advise, but you or others can see the need for more then the obvious place to go would be where the free info came from. It's part of sales tactics not gimmicks, and in this case I believe a more agreeable, genuine and applaudable tactic. Exactly. But to act like the migration agents get nothing out of it but a warm fuzzy feeling is slightly naive. Same goes for moneycorp etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abz123 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I saw an advert for Maccas this morning but didn't go and buy a brekkie wrap... Advertising does not always give a return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I saw an advert for Maccas this morning but didn't go and buy a brekkie wrap... Advertising does not always give a return. We are derailing this thread. But, the fact you know all about their brekkie wrap and have commented on it here probably makes the macca's marketing department very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Southern Cross Personnel Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 We are an international recruitment company who have heard many horror stories of people who have tried to do visa's on their own. Granted holiday and working holiday visas can be very simple especially if you are single with no dependants and meet all the criteria. Outside of that it starts to get more and more complex and I commend any migration agent who gives their time freely in assisting others on this forum. Whether they gain business from that down the track is neither here nor there. Instead of knocking these people how about just remembering to say "thank you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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