whichway1 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I am not that knowledgeable about politics right, so it has to be said when it comes to the big independence vote for Scotland I was pretty much going to go with my heart and my brain a little and vote to stay United. It is pretty impossible for someone like me who is not that into politics to make an informed guess. I mean the other day, they were saying that Scotland has more ageing population and the oil will run dry (this is true of course) and not enough young people to contribute to the income, but then, someone else comes on and says exactly the opposite, I mean I know it makes me really stupid, but how am I supposed to know? Sensible answers please People are telling me that we will be a really rich country but I just can't see it, then there is the fact that Alex Salmond is SO not giving us the full story, he is being very cagey, but people say we will get rid of him when we go independant. Will we? He has been the leader of that party for yonks. I think it's pretty scary as most people are just not using their brains and simply saying WE want independence. I need an educated person to be honest about the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkiwd Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It is so complicated, I agree with what you say, there are so many people using 'Braveheart' as their reason for voting without actually looking at the actual consequences of going independant. I can't see how the negatives that currently exist in Scotland are going to miraculously disappear with Independance, all the unemployed and on long term benefits will wake up and say 'right off to get a job today' ! IMO we already have the best of both in so many things i.e free prescriptions and free uni which England doesn't have I understand people voting that way as they want to have a say in who runs the government (poor conservative support in Scotland but yet they are in charge) but this theory of ' we can get rid of Alex Salmond after 'is risky because there is no going back if things aren't working out. The actual separation if Scotland votes YES sounds so complicated as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I think it would be a disaster for Scotland. The nationalists bleat on about oil revenue without checking basic facts. Most of the oil is currently drilled in international waters, so does not result in royalties. The tax is paid at point of entry which for most is now Hull. The small amount currently drilled in UK waters is produced around Shetland and the Shetland Islands are talking about independence from Scotland! They have said, thy will just become members of Europe, but europe has said, that is not the case and they would need to apply. So all of the European funding currently received would stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrumac Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 try and think about what you care about in your own life and what might be gained from full independence as opposed to what you have got from devolved power as it is in place currently. I'm thinking not much but im on the outside looking in. Talking to the Scottish half of my family they only care the Scottish footy and rugby teams are separate :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger2shirts Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Staying in the Union is the best thing for Scotland. Its a bit like saying Queensland would be better off alone; Scotland effectively has a State and Federal government now which seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's not really a vote for true independence. More a who do you want to be 'ruled' by? London (with a view to improving things in the UK) or Brussels (looking to improve the EU). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichway1 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 I agree with pretty much everything everyone says. I think to go "independent" is an unknown and I doubt we could get rid of Salmond. I really hope we don't, I just am glad that my thoughts were confirmed. I live in a town which is more Nationalist than not and TBH it's a bit of a nightmare sometimes. You can't have a hea;thy discussion with these people who have totally made up their minds. The argument is always the same, oil and whisky.........I feel like screaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thombatt Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 My wife is Scottish and we plan to retire in Scotland, so the decision has consequences for us, even if we are not able to vote. My natural reaction is a "no", so I've asked questions on the Yes Scotland site. I've not received a reply, despite asking again, twice. This in it's own right concerns me. These are some of the concerns that I've raised 1 in the development of the economic figures presented by the SNP what can the price of oil decline to before the current SNP policies become unsustainable? 2 are there any proposal for an upper house like the House of Lords or the Australian Senate, how will its members be elected/appointed and how will a bill passage actually work? 3 There is currently a "special relationship" between the UK and the USA. How will Scotland fit into this relationship post independence, if at all? 4 Is the economic viability of Scotland based on the "Common Weal" paper put forward? (if the answer is yes, then my vote would definitely be no) 5 the economic viability of an independent Scotland seems to be entirely based on the SNP policy of running down defense and depending on rUK to move north of the border when there are issues, is this correct? 6 What happens if an independent Scotland is a complete disaster, are there any safeguards to allow Scotland to rejoin the UK, or would the rUK hold that decision entirely? I understand that Scottish see value for deciding for themselves how their affairs are run, and to many that is worth the price of a decline in wealth. New Zealand and Iceland are quoted as examples of successful smaller countries by Salmond, but he fails to mention that both of them very nearly went bankrupt in the last 40 years, Iceland in 2008 and NZ in 1984. The pain those countries went though to get out of it was huge and I don't think Scotland is up to that sort of pain quite frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichway1 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Oh God I'm quite scared now. I don't understand number 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I get quite confused by a lot of the stuff too, some of it seems complicated. I've been trying to be as informed as possible. So far my vote is No and i think it'll stay the same. Im happy to stay together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's a shame that the rest of the UK doesn't get a vote on it either. It'd be interesting to see the spin when the Scotts vote to stay, and the rest of Britain votes for them to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichway1 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's a shame that the rest of the UK doesn't get a vote on it either. It'd be interesting to see the spin when the Scotts vote to stay, and the rest of Britain votes for them to leave. That's nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 That's nice Most people in London would like to cut anything outside the M25 and home counties off to be fair. If they could add in NI, Wales and most of the north into the independence debate they'd be happy. There is a feeling down there, that London money supports these areas. Also a lot of people are getting fed up with Salmond and the expense & hassle that the referendum will cause. Personally? I couldn't care. I'm not Scottish and I don't live in the UK. But I do think it's a massive gamble for not a great reward. Must how much are you willing to spend to have your Braveheart "Freedom"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Definitely a big YES! Look at Independent Scotland for some information. They have a Facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Most people in London would like to cut anything outside the M25 and home counties off to be fair. If they could add in NI, Wales and most of the north into the independence debate they'd be happy. There is a feeling down there, that London money supports these areas. Also a lot of people are getting fed up with Salmond and the expense & hassle that the referendum will cause. Personally? I couldn't care. I'm not Scottish and I don't live in the UK. But I do think it's a massive gamble for not a great reward. Must how much are you willing to spend to have your Braveheart "Freedom"? Thats really nice of you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Definitely a big YES! Look at Independent Scotland for some information. They have a Facebook page. Yeah we all know they have a facebook page.. Im already sick of seeing it on tv all the time aswell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Thats really nice of you.. But I don't think it is particularly nasty either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeorgeD Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 It's a shame that the rest of the UK doesn't get a vote on it either. It'd be interesting to see the spin when the Scotts vote to stay, and the rest of Britain votes for them to leave. That's the beauty of democracy...if the rest of the UK voted for political parties with policies to have a referendum on removing Scotland from the United Kingodm, then there's probably nothing to stop it happening. Clearly there is no political will for it in the rest of the UK. Or at least, not yet...it has taken the Nationalists decades to get to this stage in Scotland. If enough people feel strongly about it, then the UK is a free country...they can propose it (probably) I say probably, because whilst there is a legal method to leave the union, there may not be a legal basis for one of the member countries to be expelled from the Union. I honestly don't know. My thoughts on the matter are that the romantic notion of it is probably much more attractive than the reality of it. I worry that it really is an awful lot of hassle and upheaval for not an awful lot of real benefit to the people of Scotland. I've said this before though...the notion of self determination and sovereignty is not just an economic notion. The people of Scotland may not be better off financially long term in an independent Scotland, but for many, that isn't the most important thing...being their own nation is more important, whatever the cost. Having left the Uk 3 years ago I have no say in it...and that worries me too...would I be able to go back?? How many passports am I going to need once I have Australian citizenship if Scotland becomes independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Yeah we all know they have a facebook page.. Im already sick of seeing it on tv all the time aswell! Sorry! As I live in Australia I had no idea it was constantly on TV in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Well maybe im particularly oversensitive today but considering a lot of people seem to be saying no and they didnt want to go for it in the first place its just lovely to hear the rest of the UK wish they could kick us out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I get quite confused by a lot of the stuff too, some of it seems complicated. I've been trying to be as informed as possible. So far my vote is No and i think it'll stay the same. Im happy to stay together Agree Stacey. If it's not broke don't try to fix it. There will be huge costs involved for both countries if it goes ahead. Talking about Braveheart as a means to pursuade people to vote one way or the other is just crap. It was a film. Look at the history if you want to know the true story. It bears no meaning on the relationship between the two countries now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Well maybe im particularly oversensitive today but considering a lot of people seem to be saying no and they didnt want to go for it in the first place its just lovely to hear the rest of the UK wish they could kick us out.. Westminster wouldn't allow that. Scotland pays 9.9% of the taxes to Westminster and apparently only receives around 8% back in funding. If Scotland seceded the south east of England would have to subsidise the rest on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Westminster wouldn't allow that. Scotland pays 9.9% of the taxes to Westminster and apparently only receives around 8% back in funding. If Scotland seceded the south east of England would have to subsidise the rest on it's own. You have been genning up on the Facebook propaganda. Have a gold star. I say give the rest of the Union the vote to eject Scotland. I'd let them leave in heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I think all this whole thing has done is stir up bad feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Doesn't bother me what people vote for as I don't or won't be living in Scotland....soo happy voting. They should stay in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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