Jessica Berry Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 So, what you are saying is, take a big knock back on career. A big knock on salary and a big knock on lifestyle. Particularly for more senior staff. It begs the question as to why bother. Oz has the highest working hours in the developed world. Some of the highest cost housing. Some of the highest cost of living and your answer is to take a cut? I am saying it depends on what you do and what job you can realistically get. In job hunting one size does not fit all. In the example I gave, I see no reason why this person can't achieve management level again and I have advised them of this, it just wasn't going to happen the minute they arrived in Adelaide and with the first job they got. It is down to the individual whether they want to sit and wait for their ideal job to come along. No one forces them to take a job, but if you have rent to pay and a family to feed, I would suggest getting a job that perhaps is not your dream job but a job, is better than the alternative. I always say to people, this is my advice, but what you choose to do is up to you. It is not always about going backwards, my partner works in IT (but his skill set is very much in demand) and his career has gone from strength to strength and he earns money that he could never earn where we are from in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 So, what you are saying is, take a big knock back on career. A big knock on salary and a big knock on lifestyle. Particularly for more senior staff. It begs the question as to why bother. Oz has the highest working hours in the developed world. Some of the highest cost housing. Some of the highest cost of living and your answer is to take a cut? In your scenario i wouldn't bother... Nobody is being forced here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamffc Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Ultimately people migrate to improve their standard of living. It's impossible to make sweeping generalisations as everyone's circumstances and priorities are different, that includes where they are going from and to. I have met people that by the sounds of it had quite nice lives in the UK, came to Australia found it a real struggle and eventually went home. Sure you could tell them to give it longer, take a step back to increase chances of getting a job etc. But I can fully understand people not being willing to make such hardships if they believe they had a better standard of living at home, so long as they give it a good go in Australia first (ie at least a few months). And before anyone points out that such people shouldn't bother trying, there is no way anyone can know for sure without trying for real and hindsight is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownEyedGal Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Fryertuck..I have to agree. My brother is here to look for work. Like you and your wife he is highly skilled in the Boilermaker arena and fills three positions on the short skills Immigration list. He paid thousands of pounds to get the visa and jump through hoops to get his certificates through. He hit the ground running when he got here, updating his CV, sending information to the recruiters such as Seek etc. and visiting recruiters at their offices. And still NOTHING. He's been here about 7 weeks and is fed up. I don't get it. How can Australia say they need these skilled workers and when they get here there is no job and its a not what you know but who you know network. And this major wall of having to go through **** recruiters that don't know what they are looking for is just damned intolerable. He's now resorting to looking for any job. What a waste of his 25 years plus of hard earned skills - it just gets me mad. Anyhow - He's given himself another couple of months and then he has to review what he is going to do. Maybe you're right Fryertuck - come back in 2 years but by then he will have to do his PR visa again. So a bit of a quandary. I'm wishing luck to everyone searching for job. Keep up the searching and keep your chins up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Ultimately people migrate to improve their standard of living. It's impossible to make sweeping generalisations as everyone's circumstances and priorities are different, that includes where they are going from and to. I have met people that by the sounds of it had quite nice lives in the UK, came to Australia found it a real struggle and eventually went home. Sure you could tell them to give it longer, take a step back to increase chances of getting a job etc. But I can fully understand people not being willing to make such hardships if they believe they had a better standard of living at home, so long as they give it a good go in Australia first (ie at least a few months). And before anyone points out that such people shouldn't bother trying, there is no way anyone can know for sure without trying for real and hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's the ones who are all about the money that ultimately seem to come a cropper. It's not its much more than that for us and not even that for lots . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Berry Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 He's been here about 7 weeks and is fed up. The average time it is taking to gain work is 3 months (and for new migrants it may take longer), have a look at this posting if you haven't already seen it...... http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/jobs-careers/192557-statistics-time-its-taking-find-job-australia.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamffc Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 It's the ones who are all about the money that ultimately seem to come a cropper. It's not its much more than that for us and not even that for lots . The phrase 'standard of living' was intended to be all encompassing. For some people it means having higher disposable incomes, for some its having more time to spend with their family, and for others it might be doing a job they feel passionate about. For most it will be a combination of these and other factors, but how they prioritise each is entirely subjective. It depends on the individual and isn't fair for others to pass judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Fryertuck..I have to agree. My brother is here to look for work. Like you and your wife he is highly skilled in the Boilermaker arena and fills three positions on the short skills Immigration list. He paid thousands of pounds to get the visa and jump through hoops to get his certificates through. He hit the ground running when he got here, updating his CV, sending information to the recruiters such as Seek etc. and visiting recruiters at their offices. And still NOTHING. He's been here about 7 weeks and is fed up. I don't get it. How can Australia say they need these skilled workers and when they get here there is no job and its a not what you know but who you know network. And this major wall of having to go through **** recruiters that don't know what they are looking for is just damned intolerable. He's now resorting to looking for any job. What a waste of his 25 years plus of hard earned skills - it just gets me mad. Anyhow - He's given himself another couple of months and then he has to review what he is going to do. Maybe you're right Fryertuck - come back in 2 years but by then he will have to do his PR visa again. So a bit of a quandary. I'm wishing luck to everyone searching for job. Keep up the searching and keep your chins up. There are lots if vacancies for boilermakers/welders in WA had he tried Newcastle ( I see your in Sydney ) are there large industrial areas near you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursealli Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Personally I think it's a massive risk to give up everything and move to the otherwise of the world without having secured a job before I left........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamffc Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Personally I think it's a massive risk to give up everything and move to the otherwise of the world without having secured a job before I left........ Is it, but is the only option for many people. Unless relocated by your existing employer or you have a niche job there is no chance that a company would employ somebody who is not even in the country yet. Would be exactly the same if it were a UK company hiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamffc Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 The average time it is taking to gain work is 3 months (and for new migrants it may take longer), have a look at this posting if you haven't already seen it...... http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/jobs-careers/192557-statistics-time-its-taking-find-job-australia.html Well done for highlighting this as it can really help people remain positive. A friend of mine moved back to Melbourne having spent two years in London and it took him, fully qualified and with network already in place, three months so find a job. It doesn't help people who's finances might be running out and also supports the suggestion that the availability of vacancies is diminishing, but do not take it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownEyedGal Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 It is a massive risk to come to a country with no job! But you have to be in the country for some of the skills that are wanted and his are three of them on the short skills list! He tried to secure things before coming over but to no avail. What I write is not the full extent of his story. As soon as he got into Perth, he got a phone sim, his driving licence, white card, re-did his CV and started calling the vacancies advertised only to be pushed to recruitment agencies. He even went to the offices for the Gorgon project to talk to the staff there. There's nothing he hasn't done or tried. Don't get me wrong he knew it would be hard. But when you are looking for work in your skilled area, you don't imagine that there are so many barriers - hence my comment about who you know. (He doesn't know any one!). There may be adverts saying there are jobs available but those do not appear to be 'real' jobs for the skills he has. He has been applying for jobs all over NSW including Newcastle soon. He's moved four times already to be near any areas that may hold work. As I said, he's looking at other type of work now. I really feel for others in similar situations and I am also happy for those that can find a role that suits them and can also adapt to something else. Just want to say good luck to all the searchers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Has he actually gone to companies and knocked on doors? The metal industries do tend to be that casual over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownEyedGal Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 It is a massive risk to come to a country with no job! But you have to be in the country for some of the skills that are wanted and his are three of them on the short skills list! He tried to secure things before coming over but to no avail. What I write is not the full extent of his story. As soon as he got into Perth, he got a phone sim, his driving licence, white card, re-did his CV and started calling the vacancies advertised only to be pushed to recruitment agencies. He even went to the offices for the Gorgon project to talk to the staff there. There's nothing he hasn't done or tried. Don't get me wrong he knew it would be hard. But when you are looking for work in your skilled area, you don't imagine that there are so many barriers - hence my comment about who you know. (He doesn't know any one!). There may be adverts saying there are jobs available but those do not appear to be 'real' jobs for the skills he has. He has been applying for jobs all over NSW including Newcastle soon. He's moved four times already to be near any areas that may hold work. As I said, he's looking at other type of work now. I really feel for others in similar situations and I am also happy for those that can find a role that suits them and can also adapt to something else. Just want to say good luck to all the searchers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 It's the ones who are all about the money that ultimately seem to come a cropper. It's not its much more than that for us and not even that for lots . It is not all about money. But there is no escape that money is important. Would you leave a lifestyle in the UK that gave you a good house, good schools for your kids, good lifestyle for a lesser version in Oz? For an increasing number of people, this is what the gamble is risking and for a lot, there is little way back as the cost of the move traps them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursealli Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 True VERYSTORMY..... i have a good job and a relatively small mortgage.....a very big gamble in my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 True VERYSTORMY..... i have a good job and a relatively small mortgage.....a very big gamble in my eyes It is all about why you want to come to Oz. Is it realistic that Oz will deliver what you want - for example, so many think it is more time with family, yet it is reported to have the longest working hours in the industrialized world. Ask your self questions about what you might gain and lose and research. All I ever say ultimately is some will come and it will work and they will enjoy it. For some it will be a disaster. Research will give a lot of indication as to which it is likely to be. It wont answer everything and then you have to weigh up the gamble of what you stand to gainnor lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rose Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Not surprised so many Pommy HR advisors are struggling to get a job in Oz. No disrespect intended, but what do they know about Australian labour laws? Next to nothing. If I was an Australian employer I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Another thing I don't get is why anyone would want to leave the UK at the moment. The economy (and weather) is picking up. The feel good factor is back. 2013 has been an awesome year so far for Britain on so many levels. I have Aussie PR but I am in no rush right now to leave a country in recovery for one that is in sharp decline. Britain is beginning to boom and I'm lovin' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownEyedGal Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Yes, Que Sera Sera He has traversed the industrial sites near where he was living in Perth and knocked on doors and dropped in CVs and offered to do the associated welding tests. He is now doing the same in Parramatta industrial areas corridor. So he is doing as much as he can as I stated already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali B Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I don't know any skilled person personally who does not have a job. I am unskilled and currently have 2. The description of Australia that keeps being banged out here bears no relation to the one I live in. Agreed, our kids are all in early 20s with masses of friends male/female in trades and professions and not one unemployed among them. Problem is, this isn't just a UK v Oz job issue... More than ever in history, global economies are linked, so what happens in say China or Brazil WILL cause a ripple that will knock on to High Street UK, jobs and the economy. A bit of sunshine in UK may lift the mood there, make ppl feel better and sell a few more houses and cars for a quarter, maybe two, but friends of ours in high London finance tell us its naive to think things are turning upwards when major companies (globally) are struggling. Politicians of all persuasions will say their policies will get a country through (they would wouldn't they). Don't believe it. Until there is much tighter regulation of banks and banking practices internationally, the people like us at the end of the paper trail will be the ones to pay wherever you live. Have to say to that Oz is very very tight on having qualifications alongside experience. In UK you get jobs on experience. Here you need the paper quals to prove it as well, whatever the field. A lot of 475s getting work 'under the counter' and getting ripped off I hear too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyay1 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I don't think it is so bad to be honest, depends on your visa and what contacts you had/have here as always in leaner times these things become more important. Your personal situation makes you think everyone is having the same experience but i doubt that's the case, although the job market is undoubtedly tougher now. It's sad for you but Project management when there are fewer projects is always going to be thinner on the ground and HR jobs which fall under office support services are always cut first unfortunately. Hang on in there and keep trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candygirl Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Only come to Australia at present if you have a job, all Australia can offer now is sunshine, my wife and I have been here since last August, she is a Very experienced HR consultant, I a senior PM in construction and we can't get a job at any level, we have international experience and when you go for an interview you be told, oh you don't have Australian or Queensland experience, or you don't have a PR class visa which we do. 3/4 of the jobs on Seek are data base builders, recruiters no the situation call then they will tell you it's dire here. There are not any roles out there, construction is dead here, mining the bubble has well and truly burst, oil & gas only has a pulse nothing more and to believe 6% unemployment forget it, every recruiter, every politician knows its at least 10-12% unemployment in Australia and climbing rapidly. Dont come to Oz now, leave it 2 years this is far worse than the credit crunch in the UK, this is on the Spain- Ireland scale, it's damn expansive book on $5 a month living costs minimum and for that your just an existence. People will jump on this saying us not that bad, my first to you is do you have a job...? If you do you will not see the big picture, I went for a job last week, I know the recruiter 420 applicants for a construction, and she was data base building only. Dont come here, wait till it picks up, and we haven't hit the bottom yet, it's bad getting worse, 2 years maybe a better time but lets hope sooner because lots are heading back to the UK sadly. Paradise is still here but the dreams if living in it are over for now sadly. Oz has nowhere near the unemployment rates of Spain or Ireland. Spain is actually picking itself up a bit now. I wish you the best of Luck I really do, but things are a lot lot worse in the Eurozone than Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incata Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Not surprised so many Pommy HR advisors are struggling to get a job in Oz. No disrespect intended, but what do they know about Australian labour laws? Next to nothing. If I was an Australian employer I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Another thing I don't get is why anyone would want to leave the UK at the moment. The economy (and weather) is picking up. The feel good factor is back. 2013 has been an awesome year so far for Britain on so many levels. I have Aussie PR but I am in no rush right now to leave a country in recovery for one that is in sharp decline. Britain is beginning to boom and I'm lovin' it. You are absolutely right, as an HR specialist, we know nothing about Australian Labour Laws and unfortunately, no matter how much we have read up, we don't stand a chance against local candidates. The same would be the case for an Australian HR person coming to the UK. I have no problem with that. The problem or where many of us HR people got caught out, was that when we applied for our visas, the market was booming, there were more jobs than candidates and had we got out here at the time, we would have secured work because we had a pulse and had some HR experience, even if it was not local. However, it took 5 months from start to finish to get the visa (including time for ILETS, Skills Assessment/Medicals etc) and a further 5 months for my husband to be able to leave the armed forces, and in that time the market changed for the worse, much worse. Now it is the case that there are more candidates than jobs, so naturally they will go to the candidates with local experience. As an employer, if I had a choice of an HR person with local experience or one without, I would go for the one with local experience. Unfortunately, HR people in the UK do not want to listen to what is happening here and are only wanting to hear good news. I see story after story from other HR people who are having the same issues. The HR people I have met who are working all moved out here during the boom years. Those who are planning to move and think that they will walk into a job if they try hard enough are setting themselves up for a huge fall and I would hate others to feel as despondent as I am feeling. Suffice to say, if we were still in the UK right now, we would be coming out to activate our visas, but delaying the move until the market improves. The irony is, that the area of HR I worked in is booming and I could get a contract in London tomorrow if I was back there, but our circumstances now mean that, even if I wanted to, we could not move back, so I just have to keep my fingers crossed and keep trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Its easy to write sweeping statements regarding jobs. I'm sure that there has been a downturn in most sectors but still beleive that most people are in employment. Persoanlly been lucky here in the UK and though we are in a recession I've felt little of it. Its easy to look at the immediate facts in front of you however life is generally good for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2012 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 OP: Construction is really picking up back in the UK, particularly in the South of England. At the moment we're struggling to find skilled machine operators, 360 / FLT etc. I'm a trainee manager with a main contractor and always planned to move to Australia once I've gained enough experience, I guess those plans will be on hold until things pick up in Oz too. Are others also having difficulty finding working in construction? Would I be wasting my time considering Australia at this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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