Visa Capping - Senate Inquiry

[Jeffster]

I'm not convinced that the European Court of Human Rights would get you anywhere.

 

The dispute would be with the Australian government, no doubt covered by Australian laws, and I suspect that the small print in the terms and conditions of applying for a visa says that complaints are heard in an Australian court.

 

In short, it's way outside the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights.

 

 

 

That's precisely where a good lawyer would find it might be in the jurisdiction of the ECHR - for offshore applicants in the EU who have paid good money to Australian Embassies or Consulates in exchange for a service to be returned which hasn't been returned in good faith, under the conditions at the time or in the time frame promised.

 

This is not about whether applicants are getting visas or not - that could never realistically be challenged - it is about people paying money for a service and then the provider turning round and saying "we're changing the rules, we're taking 5 times longer than we promised and you can't get a refund if you want one."

 

That would make a very good case. And much of the aim of such a case would be to expose what Evans and co. are doing to peoples lives, cause an International outcry and provoke a major backpedal by the Govt.

 

If it is out of the ECHR jurisdiction then there is always the UN, the International Court of Arbitration or even just a plain old civil suit - can you imagine the media exposure if Mr and Mrs Smith, plumber and hairdresser, took the Aussie Government to court to seek a refund and compensation for their 2 year old visa application?

[Jeffster]

I sincerely hope it doesn't get hit. It's all very well Mr Evans saying he wants people to get jobs before visas but has he actually looked at IT jobs on the likes of SEEK? - 99.9% of IT job adverts state in big bold letters that you must have the appropriate work visa BEFORE applying for a job. Does he really think we like the prospect of landing on the other side of the planet with no job lined up? I'd love it if my OH could secure a job and THEN we get a visa and go, but it just doesn't seem to be possible in the IT sector, unless you are a IT shadow ninja.

 

I would ignore that and send your application anyway, can't do any harm. Pretty much all the jobs I applied for here said they wanted people with PR but no-one ever checked and I was never asked about it at interviews.

 

Very few employers understand the rules anyway and even fewer can be bothered to check. Their main concern is that they sponsor someone who turns out to be useless - my company did that (not me!) - and that they can't get rid of them because they are somehow obliged to employ them for the full 2 years. I'm fairly certain this isn't true and that they can get rid of a sponsored worker - they just have to inform DIAC.

 

It might be worth getting an agent to write a one page brief on sponsorship to send along with any applications and to also let them know if you will be paying all the sponsorship fees yourself or if you would be expecting the company to cover them.

[George Lombard]

Reasonably confident that Peter Mares will address these issues in his ABC Radio Program The National Interest. The link for making an input to his program is The National Interest - Contact Us .

 

Cheers,

 

George Lombard

[User Name]

Rudd and Evans need to realise that Australia is no Dubai when it comes to work.

 

When people apply for 10 jobs, they might get 1 phone call for interview. When you have no PR, 8/10 of those jobs are out of reach. That leaves you 1/10th chance of scoring an interview with the 2/10 jobs that are willing to consider you.

[User Name]

 

I think eventually IT would be the next to get hit .

 

Shane

 

 

Given India is the IT powerhouse, many IT pros will try to flood in given there are serveral IT roles in new SOL.

 

Cooks, hairdressers, IT pros, meds, engineers, India got it all. Whatever Chris Evans puts up on SOL, it'll be Indians applying by thousands until it gets taken off.

[User Name]

Hi !

the situation in India...

The advertisements in the news papers have gone down like hell where the MARA agents advertised to come and study/live in Australia. The seminars as late as 2009 by the present government advertising their esteemed schools and colleges... B**L S**t. No one really(Few) wants to come to Australia to study..

 

Migration was the only attractive thing about studying in Australia. In UK you get better benefits as intl student. Medical, free school for dependants etc.

 

IMO, PR is the only thing that drove Australia's education system. The $15 billion industry could be worth less than a billion, but its for the good really.

[Jeffster]

EuI have done my own calculations and its finacial suicide to refund thousands of potential migrants. The Australian government only recently got dragged through the media for spending $37 million of the taxpayers money on Public Relations, so can you imagine the outcry if they start parting with hundreds of millions of dollars?

 

 

The majority of the hundreds of millions - lets say 150,000 x 2,000 = $300 million - has not actually been "spent". A paper application arrives at Adelaide / elsewhere processing centre, is removed from the envelope and is pidgeonholed according to the visa type. This probably takes in the order of 30 seconds. There are no document checks (that all medicals, police checks etc. are present and correct), no one opens or looks at the application until a CO is assigned. For an online application I imagine the process is the same, except automatic which would mean about half a second of "work"...for a server.

 

This is where the majority of applications are at - this parking stage, this big room full of applications waiting to be moved on.

 

Now I would be outraged if my application is capped and I have paid $2,000 odd for someone to open an envelope and put my papers in a big pile that is then consigned to a bin - not to mention all related expenses. Actually in my case, it would be a split second of server processing time and deletion - for $2000.

 

There is absoultely no question they will have to refund, they have done NO work on these applications AT ALL, NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, ZIPPO.

DIAC has not employed lots of new people - they have cut back actually - and online applications have made it even cheaper for them. Lets not even mention that the visa fees are some of the highest in the world.

 

And how about the fact I could have had that $2000 in my bank earning interest for the last 2 years - what about that?

 

If anyone dares complain about the Government refunding visa application fees when it, inevitably, has to happen I will personally slap them in the face. I will also be accepting "virtual" slaps to pass on from those offshore.

[Guest Jamie Smith]

Rudd and Evans need to realise that Australia is no Dubai when it comes to work.

 

When people apply for 10 jobs, they might get 1 phone call for interview. When you have no PR, 8/10 of those jobs are out of reach. That leaves you 1/10th chance of scoring an interview with the 2/10 jobs that are willing to consider you.

 

There are ways to deal with this.

[matjones]

Rudd and Evans need to realise that Australia is no Dubai when it comes to work.

 

When people apply for 10 jobs, they might get 1 phone call for interview. When you have no PR, 8/10 of those jobs are out of reach. That leaves you 1/10th chance of scoring an interview with the 2/10 jobs that are willing to consider you.

 

plus they need to realize that a lot of people are not willing to uproot and move half way around the world, and be stuck on a employer sponsored visa, where they can get kicked back out if they can't maintain employment.

[robin]

Hi,

I am very much upset about all this recent Australian immigration changes, Bill for visa capping etc. I think Australian Immigration is nothing but a corner cigarette shop in your local area. No morality no business ethics to price up. They just need money for country’s economic so nakedly. The way a dog can snatch meat from another dog, if he is little bit stronger than the other.

Canada is same first world country like Australia. How immigration works there?! You lodge residency application today, if all your papers are right you get residency after 2 - 4 years time frame at best. They don't cap up visas or cease and refund application fees by only saying that too much application to process for one year, skill needed shifted from one area to another. They also have quota system for instance 75,000 a year, they also get huge amount of application every year (approx. more than 170,000 a year). They are not big mess like Australian Immigration. They know what they are doing, which skill they need regardless when and the no. of applicant in the pipeline or whatever.

I find Australian Immigration is handled by a small child. Who changes his mind without notice, who will promise you to give you something again will take it back. This is a childish attitude. An adult can never do this.

I think Australian immigration playing with emotion and people's lives and dreams. This big shot people of Australian Immigration should be stopped, before Australia looses its complete reputation of high class citizen in front of the world. Do you think the way they are so ruthless with innocent students and off shore applicant at this moment that will bring big honour and pride to this country?! I don’t think so. To get the actual reaction they have to yet few years time. It’s something like if you frighten your investors they will not come to you, because you can change and trap them any time like innocent student and overseas applicant.

I say let it be handled like other first world countries. Do according to your promise of existing and old system/rules. Don’t dump these people in the name of economic. If you need to change anything take action for the future. Existing students or off shore applicants, who are already in the process didn’t do anything wrong applying or studying course from previous or new SOL. To fix back log of 130,000 applications shouldn’t take more than 4 years. Let them wait like Canada. In that way at least garneted residency there one day if all the requirements are full filled properly.

My opinion is that this is nothing but a political move or you can say game from Rudd govt. Just trying to put down liberal parties before next election comes (by saying Howard govt did this, did that) which suppose to be within next few months and date still not yet fixed as far as i know (Rudd govt is in the power nearly 4 years. “Was he sleeping?” “Didn’t he and Mr. Evan know too many applicant to process for PR at that time?”) The reason rudd govt. Not ready yet for the election. As some saying there popularity yet down again in recent activities.

I hate politics. Any way good luck for everyone and Take care.

 

ROBIN.......................................................................................

[matjones]

Hi,

 

I am very much upset about all this recent Australian immigration changes,.........

 

 

 

 

:arghh: whats with all the people posting the same stuff on multiple threads today? Please don't! :policeman:

[Guest Raja]

Hi All

 

Most people applying for GSM visas (skilled independent visas - eg sc 175, 176 or sc 475) are already aware / are becoming aware that the Minister for Immi has introduced a new Bill to the Australian Parliament.

 

The Bill proposes that every year, the Minister will be able to cap & kill applications for the visa subclasses described above (plus for all of the onshore GSM visa subclasses.) Basically, the idea is that the Minister will say that he wishes to allow X00 Bricklayers and Y00 Accountants to be granted GSM visas during the Financial Year in question. (The Aussie Financial Year runs from 1st July until the following 30th June.)

 

The Bill received its second reading in the Aussie Parliament earlier this week. Somebody has decided that the Legal & Constitutional Affairs Committee of the Aussie Senate should hold a Public Inquiry into the idea.

 

The link to the Inquiry is below:

 

Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee: Current Inquiries

 

More information has been published by the Migration Institure of Australia (MIA.) The link to the MIA's information is below:

 

Call for submissions into Inquiry into the Migration Amendment (Visa Capping) Bill 2010

 

EVERYBODY WHO MIGHT BE AFFECTED IS ABLE - AND IS INVITED - TO MAKE YOUR OWN SUBMISSIONS TO THE INQUIRY, PLEASE.

 

I will make a formal submission on behalf of all present and future members of the Poms in Oz forum. However this does not prevent individual Members of the forum from making individual submissions as well and I believe strongly that anybody who wants to make such a submission should do so.

 

There is nothing to fear from making an individual submission. Nobody is going to "mark your cards" with your existihng or intended visa application or anything.

 

I will do some more research later this evening and I will try to get all of the relevant information into this thread.

 

In the meantime, if anybody has anything - any points or any quesries - that you want me to include in the submission on behalf of Poms in Oz, please make sure that you put a post on this thread to tell me what it is that you want me to say, please. Please put your post on this thread. Please do not send me private messages or e-mails instead.

 

Time is very short. Submissions must be received by the Inquiry Committee no later than Friday 4th June 2010. The Inquiry Committee will provide its formal Report and Recommendations on Tuesday 15th June 2010, apparently.

 

Please add any points that you want me to include just as soon as you possibly can.

 

Very many thanks

 

Gill

 

Dear mr. Gollywobbler,:notworthy:

 

In your post you have cited one example of the capping of a particular category or class or subclass for a financial year after fixing the quota. In this connection can you advise the position/status of the pending applications that were made around a year and a half to two years for same category or any other category, class or subclass that may be subjected to capping or not.

 

Cheers:hug:

 

Raja

[Guest perry]

Hi everyone...i am a silent reader of poms in oz and a genuine 886 visa applicant like many others here. Can anyone tell me is there anyway we can challenge this in court if they start cap and cease which seems highly likely that they will...... I feel so distraughted after years of hard work and doing everything right and its come to nothing....IS there anything possibly we can do to avoid this unjustice on us.

[ranjith47]

:arghh: whats with all the people posting the same stuff on multiple threads today? Please don't! :policeman:

 

Check this out. we've got ourselves a PomsinOz Chris Evans here trying to cap and cease all the posts.. .. Lol dude, just kidding.:wink:

:policeman:

[ramot]

Have you lodged your protest? Hopefully you have as they must be in by today

[ramot]

Sorry replying to Perry, must have posted at the same time!

[matjones]

Check this out. we've got ourselves a PomsinOz Chris Evans here trying to cap and cease all the posts.. .. Lol dude, just kidding.:wink:

:policeman:

 

For some strange reason I have become a much less tolerant person :biggrin:

[User Name]

Apparently there was a small protest by group of students in Sydney.

 

Int students protest Australia’s new skilled occupation list - Express India

[Guest perry]

hi ramot..

yes i did that but not sure if that will enough to avoid the bill....anyhow i hope it works

[Ozzieland]

I would ignore that and send your application anyway, can't do any harm. Pretty much all the jobs I applied for here said they wanted people with PR but no-one ever checked and I was never asked about it at interviews.

 

Very few employers understand the rules anyway and even fewer can be bothered to check. Their main concern is that they sponsor someone who turns out to be useless - my company did that (not me!) - and that they can't get rid of them because they are somehow obliged to employ them for the full 2 years. I'm fairly certain this isn't true and that they can get rid of a sponsored worker - they just have to inform DIAC.

 

It might be worth getting an agent to write a one page brief on sponsorship to send along with any applications and to also let them know if you will be paying all the sponsorship fees yourself or if you would be expecting the company to cover them.

 

I too have got the same reply to jobs I have applied for. They all want you to have PR. I have even received some saying when will you be in Australia, however, we cannot sponsor / employ without a visa.

[Guest keenuz]

that protewst wasnt against bill,,it was against SOL

[Guest Jamie Smith]

Minister Evans being interviewed along with a good migration agent and a UK hairdresser(!), starting at 6pm or 6.14 Australia time

 

ABC Radio National

The National Interest

 

Guests

 

Julie Beaumont

Hairdresser who trained in Australia as an international student

Senator Chris Evans

Immigration Minister

Mark Webster

Registered Migration Agent and the President of the Migration Institute of Australia for NSW and the ACT

[SHANO7]

Iv'e just listened to the interview.

 

Unfortunately. it was more a question and answer session re onshore students with one or 2 snippetts in reference to offshore. I thought it might have been more even.

 

All I could decipher really was that the problem with onshore is just that they are onshore whereas offshore aren't . Its easier to deal with offshore in a negative way.

 

Very dissapointed that the interview didn't really clarify things. Senator Evans said some good things but one thing he kept refering to was " Those people that would never get a visa" What does he mean by this and what sort of applicant would never get a visa. Once this is clarified we might no more. When we lodged our visa and then received SS we were advised basically that if we had lodged prior to the FEb 8th changes we would at least be processed and not be effected by these changes. He alluded to this date but then said you wouldnt be effected unless you are not capped and ceased. Somewhat a double negative.

 

This is all doing my nut in

[Guest lindyverm04]

I agree with you SNAN07!!!

 

Why doesn't he just spell out his exact intentions - put us out of our misery!

IE. We intend to cap the following occupations: x, y and z.

We intend to cap the following applications that have been in the system for w years.

We intend to cap the following applications that do not have a certain standard of English, as determined by s.

 

It is the not knowing that is driving me insane!!:wacko:

[Ozzieland]

According to what I gathered is that from now on there will be no refusals only capped and ceased. What he smartly did not mention is the reason for refusal and obviously a person who has not been refused will never know why he was capped and ceased and therefore not be able to fight his case !!! I DONT MIND A REFUSAL BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY WHY WHY and if this bill is passed, NO ONE CAN QUESTION WHAT HE DOES WITH AN IMMIGRANT'S APPLICATION !!! This is a very shrewd move to get what he wants. He is obviously trying to make it sound as if this bill will only be able to assist them do our jobs better but there is more than what meets the eye.

 

One question that keeps coming back to my mind is why do this now and not before when you were in office for so many years, at the near end of your tenure when you are not sure of your return to office, why do you want to pass such a bill at this time......