MovingtoTasmania Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I know of a couple who do the same thing and it works fantastically for them. So what is your solution ? That the mother should have 100% and the father 0% ? No, the child needs a stable homelife. With either the mother or the father and the other can visit/have access. But to feel like an inconvenience isn't nice for the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Anyway we have gone off track as we were discussing whether the mother should be able to unilaterally take a child overseas away from the father. Clearly that is not in the child's best interests which is why the law generally doesn't allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Anyway we have gone off track as we were discussing whether the mother should be able to unilaterally take a child overseas away from the father.Clearly that is not in the child's best interests which is why the law generally doesn't allow it. Definitely agree. The child needs both parents but more importantly, both to agree to put the needs of the child first, regardless of which parent has residency rights. Unless the absent parent is a hardcore criminal, violent, psychological abuse, that type of thing, in which case the child should be kept away from such a horrible person who can only ever bring misery to them eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I know of a couple who do the same thing and it works fantastically for them. So what is your solution ? That the mother should have 100% and the father 0% ? Of course not, it is important for the child to have regular contact with each parent, but sadly not all parents are mature that is the main issue, and sadly it is the kids who are in the middle of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Of course not, it is important for the child to have regular contact with each parent, but sadly not all parents are mature that is the main issue, and sadly it is the kids who are in the middle of it all. Also not necessarily correct, there are many factors to consider in each and every case. From personal experience I and my siblings were at an age to know and understand what was going on between our parents, besides our father going we were also dropped like a ton of horse $#!te by the grandparents and others, no enquiries or care of our wellbeing, not even birthday or xmas cards from anyone from that side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Also not necessarily correct, there are many factors to consider in each and every case. From personal experience I and my siblings were at an age to know and understand what was going on between our parents, besides our father going we were also dropped like a ton of horse $#!te by the grandparents and others, no enquiries or care of our wellbeing, not even birthday or xmas cards from anyone from that side. That's terrible :hug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops13 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 This is all still very raw for me as I am in the middle of trying to have my two children returned to Australia. I can understand the frustrations of being held in a situation which is clearly not in the child's best interest such as no financial stability, lack of effort on the other parent and even violence. However, in my scenario my children are at the centre of everything I do, they are my whole world and we have a fantastic relationship. Unfortunately it would appear that my wife and I have just....drifted apart, and due to her desire to be closer to here family, my children have been simply snatched away and held in another country which is totally unacceptable and is the single most selfish thing one parent could ever do. A parent that truly had their child's best interest at heart would have filed for separation/divorce where they were living and where the children were settled and had a support network; secured custody and then request the right to move to overseas. If they could prove that they could support the children and clearly show that such a move was in the best interests of the children they would be granted the rights to move. It they couldn't prove this then they would be required to stay as it will have been deemed the best for the child. How a 'loving' parent can put their own wishes and happiness ahead of their child's is something I will never be able to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 This is all still very raw for me as I am in the middle of trying to have my two children returned to Australia. I can understand the frustrations of being held in a situation which is clearly not in the child's best interest such as no financial stability, lack of effort on the other parent and even violence. However, in my scenario my children are at the centre of everything I do, they are my whole world and we have a fantastic relationship. Unfortunately it would appear that my wife and I have just....drifted apart, and due to her desire to be closer to here family, my children have been simply snatched away and held in another country which is totally unacceptable and is the single most selfish thing one parent could ever do. A parent that truly had their child's best interest at heart would have filed for separation/divorce where they were living and where the children were settled and had a support network; secured custody and then request the right to move to overseas. If they could prove that they could support the children and clearly show that such a move was in the best interests of the children they would be granted the rights to move. It they couldn't prove this then they would be required to stay as it will have been deemed the best for the child. How a 'loving' parent can put their own wishes and happiness ahead of their child's is something I will never be able to understand. Coops 13 I feel your pain and I am sorry you like so many others are in this awful situation. I agree this could have been handled better. When you say "if moving had been seen in the best interests of the children they would have been allowed to go" by that who would have allowed them to go you or the courts ? The fact now is that unless one partner gives the other parent there full support to move away be that interstate or overseas it is highly unlikely the courts would support the application, so for many the desperation of the situation becomes to much and they simply "run" "something" needs to be done so that when this situation arises there is a fair and reasonable option where all sides need to try to see the others situation and find a way that works for everyone but sadly I doubt that will ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) Spot on Coops. It is incredibly selfish. Have you engaged a solicitor yet ? Edited November 2, 2014 by parleycross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Spot on Coops. It is incredibly selfish. Have you engaged a solicitor yet ? Depends if he has the money to engage one. Over the last 4 years we have spent over $200,000 on trying to find a solution that is fair and in the "best interest" of the children and we are in no better situation than when we started, in fact things are worse. Our retirement fund is gone, the children are still being used as a weapon to get at the other parent, and basically our daughters life is totally stuffed and on hold for another 12 years. No one wins in these situations, as I said major changes need to happen in the family court system, but that is highly unikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 It is very hard or impossible to please everyone I suppose in these situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 It is very hard or impossible to please everyone I suppose in these situations. Exactly, especially when one party is bitter, angry and hell bent on destroying the other person for things that didnt work in the marrage. As has been said so many times it is sadly the kids that end up getting hurt, emotionally if not physically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Depends if he has the money to engage one. Over the last 4 years we have spent over $200,000 on trying to find a solution that is fair and in the "best interest" of the children and we are in no better situation than when we started, in fact things are worse. Our retirement fund is gone, the children are still being used as a weapon to get at the other parent, and basically our daughters life is totally stuffed and on hold for another 12 years. No one wins in these situations, as I said major changes need to happen in the family court system, but that is highly unikely. If jurisdictions like UK can, and do, allow movement when a good case is made then I don't see why Australia won't - but the courts just will not agree to a move if even the worst drop kick of a parent says no they can't go. It is all about control and spite unfortunately in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulRaynor Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 After 23 years of marriage including 7 years in Australia my wife suddenly and without warning upped and left us for someone else. I have been living here for the last 6 years and our children are 22 and 19. Yes all grown up but now their mother has left Brisbane to move in with her partner and his family on the Sunshine Coast. I have longed to return home and start a new life, I have written down and filled two pages the reasons for going home. For staying I wrote two words. The Kids. I could go of course, but if I did they would have no one to turn to. It doesn't stop when they reach 18, it never stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 After 23 years of marriage including 7 years in Australia my wife suddenly and without warning upped and left us for someone else. I have been living here for the last 6 years and our children are 22 and 19. Yes all grown up but now their mother has left Brisbane to move in with her partner and his family on the Sunshine Coast. I have longed to return home and start a new life, I have written down and filled two pages the reasons for going home. For staying I wrote two words. The Kids. I could go of course, but if I did they would have no one to turn to. It doesn't stop when they reach 18, it never stops. Really and truly sorry to hear this :hug: Of course you don't stop because they turn 18 but also, you need to find a way to move your own life forward too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops13 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 For me it is all about the kids and I can honestly say with total conviction that if I could provide for my children the same financial, emotional and physical support in the UK as I can and have always done here in Australia then I would go and sacrifice my own plans for their benefit. The truth of the matter in my situation anyway is that this just isn't the case as the location my wife insists on being is where all her family are and this little town is and will always be a deprived area with high unemployment and a very run down and decaying feel to it. I'm not fighting to get one over on my wife as that's not who I am. Nor am I fighting to get what want. I am fighting to give my children the very best opportunities both for now and in the future and is this 'moral high ground' that both sustains me and upsets me as it isn't being shown by my partner. People are selfish and it is heartbreaking when it is someone who you have loved for so long that is doing it.....! I am still waiting for my Hague application to be processed and have finally opted to see a solicitor outside of this later this week to see what else can be done. Money is always an issue and foolishly I left my bank access and credit cards open for Lisa to use if necessary for the children but she has taken all the money out of the UK account and taken the Australian credit cards to their limit on a two day shopping spree. I need to harden up or I will have nothing left.....! It's all just so selfish.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 If jurisdictions like UK can, and do, allow movement when a good case is made then I don't see why Australia won't - but the courts just will not agree to a move if even the worst drop kick of a parent says no they can't go. It is all about control and spite unfortunately in most cases. 100% correct Quoll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 For me it is all about the kids and I can honestly say with total conviction that if I could provide for my children the same financial, emotional and physical support in the UK as I can and have always done here in Australia then I would go and sacrifice my own plans for their benefit. The truth of the matter in my situation anyway is that this just isn't the case as the location my wife insists on being is where all her family are and this little town is and will always be a deprived area with high unemployment and a very run down and decaying feel to it. I'm not fighting to get one over on my wife as that's not who I am. Nor am I fighting to get what want. I am fighting to give my children the very best opportunities both for now and in the future and is this 'moral high ground' that both sustains me and upsets me as it isn't being shown by my partner. People are selfish and it is heartbreaking when it is someone who you have loved for so long that is doing it.....! I am still waiting for my Hague application to be processed and have finally opted to see a solicitor outside of this later this week to see what else can be done. Money is always an issue and foolishly I left my bank access and credit cards open for Lisa to use if necessary for the children but she has taken all the money out of the UK account and taken the Australian credit cards to their limit on a two day shopping spree. I need to harden up or I will have nothing left.....! It's all just so selfish.... In this case you sound like one of the decent people, but still trapped by a broken system. Set a limit for what you can afford to spend on lawyers or you may end up like us flat broke. The first 2 lawyers we had crumbled in court under the weight of the apposing "team" a lawyer, 2 barristers and a QC , the 3rd lawyer we tried was an internet lawyer with no office, all we could afford, she asked for a lump sum to take us right through to trial, only a week out to demand more money we didnt have which left us having to borow money to find another lawyer who again was anialated in court. My only advise is to try to stay out of family court, try to negotiate through your lawyer very difficult when the other partner is in a different country I understand that. From one who has been there trust me when I say stay away from family court. Once it gets there you loose total control, what happens to your children is taken out of your hands, and this will effect your life in ways you cant even begin to imagine. I dont mean to scare you or upset you, but I would not like you to go through what we have and still are going through. Sure fight for your rights but mediate, discuss, give a little what ever it takes to stay out of family Court. I hope it all works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 After 23 years of marriage including 7 years in Australia my wife suddenly and without warning upped and left us for someone else. I have been living here for the last 6 years and our children are 22 and 19. Yes all grown up but now their mother has left Brisbane to move in with her partner and his family on the Sunshine Coast. I have longed to return home and start a new life, I have written down and filled two pages the reasons for going home. For staying I wrote two words. The Kids. I could go of course, but if I did they would have no one to turn to. It doesn't stop when they reach 18, it never stops. Would they go with you? They may fancy an adventure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunt Agatha Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 For me it is all about the kids and I can honestly say with total conviction that if I could provide for my children the same financial, emotional and physical support in the UK as I can and have always done here in Australia then I would go and sacrifice my own plans for their benefit. The truth of the matter in my situation anyway is that this just isn't the case as the location my wife insists on being is where all her family are and this little town is and will always be a deprived area with high unemployment and a very run down and decaying feel to it. I'm very sorry to hear what has happened to you @Coops13, you must miss your children terribly. Could you move to a different part of the UK to find work then at least you could see your children at weekends? I know it isn't fair that you have to move because of a decision your wife made on her own, but I imagine being even vaguely near them is better than being 16,000km away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 For me it is all about the kids and I can honestly say with total conviction that if I could provide for my children the same financial, emotional and physical support in the UK as I can and have always done here in Australia then I would go and sacrifice my own plans for their benefit. The truth of the matter in my situation anyway is that this just isn't the case as the location my wife insists on being is where all her family are and this little town is and will always be a deprived area with high unemployment and a very run down and decaying feel to it. I'm not fighting to get one over on my wife as that's not who I am. Nor am I fighting to get what want. I am fighting to give my children the very best opportunities both for now and in the future and is this 'moral high ground' that both sustains me and upsets me as it isn't being shown by my partner. People are selfish and it is heartbreaking when it is someone who you have loved for so long that is doing it.....! I am still waiting for my Hague application to be processed and have finally opted to see a solicitor outside of this later this week to see what else can be done. Money is always an issue and foolishly I left my bank access and credit cards open for Lisa to use if necessary for the children but she has taken all the money out of the UK account and taken the Australian credit cards to their limit on a two day shopping spree. I need to harden up or I will have nothing left.....! It's all just so selfish.... Have you considered moving back but to a different location where you may be able to offer the kids something similar to what you have in Aus ? Even a 2 hour drive to see them on a weeknd or the ability to have them visit on holidays would be far better than you being a very long plane trip away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 For me it is all about the kids and I can honestly say with total conviction that if I could provide for my children the same financial, emotional and physical support in the UK as I can and have always done here in Australia then I would go and sacrifice my own plans for their benefit. The truth of the matter in my situation anyway is that this just isn't the case as the location my wife insists on being is where all her family are and this little town is and will always be a deprived area with high unemployment and a very run down and decaying feel to it. I'm not fighting to get one over on my wife as that's not who I am. Nor am I fighting to get what want. I am fighting to give my children the very best opportunities both for now and in the future and is this 'moral high ground' that both sustains me and upsets me as it isn't being shown by my partner. People are selfish and it is heartbreaking when it is someone who you have loved for so long that is doing it.....! I am still waiting for my Hague application to be processed and have finally opted to see a solicitor outside of this later this week to see what else can be done. Money is always an issue and foolishly I left my bank access and credit cards open for Lisa to use if necessary for the children but she has taken all the money out of the UK account and taken the Australian credit cards to their limit on a two day shopping spree. I need to harden up or I will have nothing left.....! It's all just so selfish.... Could a compromise perhaps be that you will return but to a different part of UK? You will get your kids back by invoking the HC, she was very silly even to try it (desperate? Who knows) but heavens knows what other havoc she will wreak on you in retaliation at being had up for kidnapping her own kids and being forced to live in a country she hates. It's not going to be pretty - and I agree with Tina, keep out of the FC if you can. It does sound like a nightmare to be living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Can costs be awarded against the party who has broken the law ? I would have thought so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Tina, Are you supporting a son whose wife left the country with the kids ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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