Decision making.. Career & Location

[AliG]

Hi Everyone,

Not sure I know exactly what my question is... Sometimes it helpful just to write down all the bits that potentially influence your thinking and see if anyone had any relevant experience or thoughts to share... Our quandary relates to a potential career change and how that might influence where we live as/when we make the move:

CURRENT SITUATION

• Me (M43 UK citizen) and my Aussie wife are planning to move to Aus in the next year or so with our 2 kids (who are 5 & 7)
• I am planning to apply shortly for a spouse visa and as far as I can see we tick all the boxes - I married an Aussie 15 years + our 2 kids have dual nationality with both UK and Aussie passports.
• We would have preferred to hold on to our place in London as a rental - but the more we look into the finances and practicalities of holding UK property (and the implications for options when we arrive to Aus) - we're now thinking we'll sell and take the money with us to (hopefully) buy somewhere outright in Aus.
• My wife's family are in Gold Coast, but most of her friends are in Brisbane. 

CAREER

• I am a RICS chartered building surveyor - working with commercial property (offices, industrial, retail etc). During my career Ive worked for consultancy firms of varying sizes including stints at big ones such as Cushman & Wakefield and Deloitte.
• Over the last 7 years my work has been quite specialist: mostly dilapidations (landlord and tenant arguing about how much it'll cost to fix the place up at the end of the lease) - As far as i can see this is not really a thing in Aus - they do have some 'make good' requirements in some leases, but it sounds like landlords and tenants typically deal with these in house without using external consultants - in UK there are specialist surveyors like me doing nothing but dilapidations negotiations.
• I'm either going to have to find someone who will hire me based on transferable skills, and/or do some kind of re-training: I quite like the idea of some kind of sustainability related consulting but I suspect my 'general interest' in the subject won't cut it when applying for jobs.
• I find the whole idea of a career change/retain equal parts daunting and exciting. Fun to daydream of a career change! - but anything that jeopardises the family income requires careful consideration.
• Retraining would probably cost a bit and limit my income for a while - not ideal but not insurmountable if we have bought a house in Aus (avoiding mortgage payments), my wife works full time and we dip into savings.
• My wife is an occupational therapist and it seems she'd be in high demand - I suspect she'd prefer not to work or work part time but she acknowledges this might not be viable!

GOLD COAST VS BRISBANE

• My wife's family are based in gold coast and are just about to retire. They're great with the kids and would love it if we moved to gold coast. They are in Nerang but will move to a new apartment by the beach within a year, keeping their Nerang house as a rental.
• We like the idea of the lifestyle and family support, and upon arrival to Aus we have the opportunity to rent a nice house in Nerang from the parents, knowing they wouldn't screw us on the price.
• Drawbacks of GC are high house prices, only one or two friends living that way, and we worry about limited work/career change opportunities for me. 
• Wondered about commuting but not so keen on the more northern bits of GC with train stations, and driving would drive me insane.
• The obvious alternative to GC is Brisbane. My wife went to uni here and has lots of friends (some of whom I know) with similarly aged kids, though they are dotted around the city.
• If we went for Brisbane I imagine career change / retraining opportunities might be greater, and we could still visit family at the weekend.
• On one hand, we are used to a cosmopolitan life in London and do notice that Brisbane is probably a closer match than GC - That said, one of the attractions of emigrating was living somewhere a bit different and I imagine GC might tick this box better than Brisbane?

So what do we do, take advantage of the family support in Gold Coast and have a go a job hunting from there (but with the steady financial drip of having to pay rent), or do we go straight to Brisbane, buy somewhere outright and increase career prospects - but stick with the city lifestyle... Any thoughts / experience appreciated.

PS apologies for long rambling post!

[DrDougster]

I guess it depends on the sums of money that you're talking from your "place in London" to "your place in Brisbane". If you're coming with a few million dollars in your pocket then I'd do it now, fast and Brisbane. If you buy, leave yourself some to live on, then it's likely that if you've chosen your property well it will work as a third income for you in the longer run. If you change your mind about where to live in a few years then sell at a profit, you'll have more knowledge and more options with more cash.

Some recent signs Brisbane is going to follow Sydney and Perth property market growth this year rather than loss. Might be worth moving sooner rather than later.

(Investments may go down as well as up :-))

[AliG]

22 minutes ago, DrDougster said:

I guess it depends on the sums of money that you're talking from your "place in London" to "your place in Brisbane". If you're coming with a few million dollars in your pocket then I'd do it now, fast and Brisbane. If you buy, leave yourself some to live on, then it's likely that if you've chosen your property well it will work as a third income for you in the longer run. If you change your mind about where to live in a few years then sell at a profit, you'll have more knowledge and more options with more cash.

Some recent signs Brisbane is going to follow Sydney and Perth property market growth this year rather than loss. Might be worth moving sooner rather than later.

(Investments may go down as well as up :-))

Thanks - 

a few million AUD would be nice (!) but it’s probably less than half of that. 

timing and property predictions are definitely a consideration but ultimately they are lower down the list as mostly outside my control -  not only can you guess how prices may move in Brisbane vs Gold Cost but how they might move in UK and what the exchange rate will do before we are ready to transfer cash etc 

All that said, we’re inclined not to hang around as UK economy feeling more than a bit shaky right now.

[Ausvisitor]

You mention you've enjoyed the cosmopolitan lifestyle in London.

If that's what you are after the closest will be Sydney or Melbourne, and even they are nowhere near London in that regard. 

Not having a go at Aussie cities or bigging up London, it's just a fact. There are more 1000+ seater theatres in London than the whole of Australia for instance.

Brisbane is more like a crowded Sheffield, nice people, enough to do to keep you busy but it's not a Mecca for culture.

That said it is lovely but if you are hoping to switch house but retain lifestyle then I'm not sure that place actually exists over here, but there are great places that are different 

[Marisawright]

Ausvisitor has nailed it.   London, plus the areas within the Metropolitan Green Belt, has a population of almost 20 million.  And that's not counting all the people who live outside that boundary and commute into London every day. 

In fact there are more people living or working in London than there are in the whole of Australia.  No wonder London has such a huge concentration of amenities, entertainment, business opportunities, etc etc, to service that population, all concentrated in one place.  No Australian city is anywhere near big enough to support that kind of infrastructure.

However, I'm not sure why Ausvisitor would say Brisbane is like a crowded Sheffield.  Brisbane's population density is 900 people per sq km compared to Sheffield's 1,500 people per sq km.   Ausvisitor may be forgetting that Greater Brisbane has almost the same population as  Birmingham (2.5 million).  

You can, of course, commute from many parts of the Gold Coast to Brisbane. There is a commuter train line.

 

[Eera]

You might find your skills transfer to a similar industry in buildings consulting.  We do dilapidation surveys quite commonly; but the most recent one we did was for a stretch of road before a major construction job so the contractor could prove damage (or not) caused by his trucks.  We also do them on council infrastructure like fire hydrants etc. In fact a friend came out of the army and set up his own business do building dilap surveys with drones and is doing quite well.

[InnerVoice]

Hi Ali,

As someone who lived in Brisbane for a decade and has spent plenty of time on the Gold Coast, I'm happy to offer my perspective. You don't mention how well you know either of these places, so my apologies if any of this is 'old hat'.

You'll have a place to live upon your arrival, and finding accommodation is one the biggest concerns for people moving to South East Queensland at the moment, so that's a great start. Whether you choose to live in Brisbane or the Gold Coast, work shouldn't be an issue for you. As you're probably aware, there's been a construction boom in SEQ for the last 20 years and that doesn't look like slowing down any time soon. I doubt you'll have no problem finding work in either location, albeit not in your exact field, but I'm sure you must have plenty of transferrable skills.

If I was in your shoes, I'd sell the property in the UK and take advantage of renting that nice house in Nerang for a few months so you don't need to rush into that all-important buying decision. That's going to give you plenty of time to decide if the Gold Coast is right for you. It doesn't make sense to hold on to the UK property unless in the back of your mind you're thinking about returning one day, and you're going to need the equity to buy somewhere over here anyway. Brisbane and Gold Coast property prices are roughly on a par, but vary greatly depending on location. If you're right on the beach then you're going to be looking at millions, but then you don't need to travel too far inland before you can find something relatively affordable. Living on the Gold Coast means you'll have that family support close by, and they will love spending time with their grandchildren so it's a win-win situation. Not to mention you'll be living within striking distance of Australia's loveliest beaches, which is another drawcard.

You're not going to find anywhere in Australia as cosmopolitan as London, although from your post that doesn't sound like a deal-breaker. Back in the early noughties we used to say that Brisbane was a big country town, so a comparison with Sheffield might have been fair back then - but not these days. With a population of 2.5 million, an international airport, and hosting of a forthcoming Olympic Games, it's become a global player. Brisbane definitely has more going on culturally than the Gold Coast, but then it's only an hour between the two by car or train.

I appreciate my shoes aren't your shoes, but that's my take on it!

[AliG]

Thanks all - interesting points.

I do know Brisbane and Gold Coast a bit - we've done a few trips staying with family in gold coast over the years (and have seen how much it has changed). While on these trips we've visited Brisbane CBD for day trips and caught up with friends in their suburban homes. I grew up in suburban outer Greater London but spent a lot of summer with my grandparents on the Kent coast - neither of these places had a lot of culture or diversity! But for the last 15 years we have lived closer to the city which is plenty more diverse, vibrant and walkable. I totally get that Brisbane and Gold Coast are not going to be London - in an ideal world we'd end up somewhere with shops and cafes walkable, and/or some bike routes - but I get that these kinds of places can come at a premium and might be outside our price range. Now we have kids re are resigned to doing a lot more driving and this is something we do in London what with all the after school activities...

 

 

[DukeNinja]

Commuting from Brissie to the GC can be hit and miss. Minimum 1hr, with good traffic. 

[Marisawright]

27 minutes ago, DukeNinja said:

Commuting from Brissie to the GC can be hit and miss. Minimum 1hr, with good traffic. 

Depends on where on the GC surely.  And that assumes they're driving.  There is a train.

[Nemesis]

3 hours ago, DukeNinja said:

Commuting from Brissie to the GC can be hit and miss. Minimum 1hr, with good traffic. 

That motorway is horrific, one crash and can be snarled up for 6 or 7 hours.

[InnerVoice]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Depends on where on the GC surely.  And that assumes they're driving.  There is a train.

When I lived in Brissie the train stopped in Robina. Now it ends at Varsity lakes, which is about two thirds of the way down the Gold Coast, and about level with Burleigh Heads. It'll be great if they ever extend it all the way down to the GC Airport in Coolangatta. There's quite a good service to Brisbane with some of the trains being an express service, and some services going all the way through to Brisbane Airport. The train line runs well inland though so most people will need to drive to the station first to catch the train, and then once you're in your car then you start to weigh up whether it isn't just better to drive all the way up to Brisbane.

8 hours ago, Nemesis said:

That motorway is horrific, one crash and can be snarled up for 6 or 7 hours.

The commute isn't conducive to a good work life balance, although many do it. If you're working in the Brisbane CBD you also need to consider parking, which has become hellishly expensive in recent years.

[AliG]

16 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Depends on where on the GC surely.  And that assumes they're driving.  There is a train.

Trains - Helensvale to Brisbane Central is under an hour - but my wife is not massively keen on the north end of the GC. Train from Nerang is 1 hour 10 (plus however long to get to and from stations at each end) - I think Varsity Lakes is over 1hr 20...

Driving - We have a relative that drives to the city from Hope Island (again, north GC) and it drives him nuts - enough to put me off. 

I reckon I could cope with the GC to Brisbane commute as a temporary thing but not ideal with young kids - So if we do end living in the Gold Coast i'll need to find a job or retraining opportunity there.

I had a look on Seek.com and there seem to be plenty of engineering jobs (theres a bit of crossover with Building Surveying) on the GC - but most require minimum years of experience/qualifications... 

 

 

[InnerVoice]

32 minutes ago, AliG said:

Trains - Helensvale to Brisbane Central is under an hour - but my wife is not massively keen on the north end of the GC. Train from Nerang is 1 hour 10 (plus however long to get to and from stations at each end) - I think Varsity Lakes is over 1hr 20...

I had a look on Seek.com and there seem to be plenty of engineering jobs (theres a bit of crossover with Building Surveying) on the GC - but most require minimum years of experience/qualifications... 

I share you wife's sentiments about the northern end of the GC - it does nothing for me either. I think that Burleigh Heads down to Coolangatta is by far the nicest section, although may not be the most practical in terms of commuting, even if you find work on the GC (as it's more like to be in that northern area).

Good there are plenty of jobs in your field though.

[EJMac]

Hi AliG, It can be a bit tricky from a UK Building Surveying background, i'm a RICS QS but my brother in law is RICS Building Surveyor who also specialized in dilaps for big firms in London like yourself and he struggled a bit at the start as there was no directly comparable job in Aus (this was a few years ago so may have changed.)

He went to a small firm here that got bought out by KPMG with the view to getting more involved in Dilaps but it didn't take off as you are right, this is generally dealt with in house.

Also, where back in the UK a chartered building surveyor is a solid route into PM over here they seem to prefer PM's coming from an engineering background.

It's all good now and he's working as a PM for a regional local council, but it was quite frustrating at the start for him not having his experience and qualifications recognized for a while.

Luckily QS' are more transferable and they recognize the RICS as a good background (although prefer AIQS) but it's a much more traditional role here than in the UK.

Anyway good luck with it all it will all work out well I'm the end (i don't want to be another negative contributor to this forum - there are enough already!) just perhaps be prepared to pivot a little at the start with your job.

Cheers

EJMac

[AliG]

5 hours ago, EJMac said:

Hi AliG, It can be a bit tricky from a UK Building Surveying background, i'm a RICS QS but my brother in law is RICS Building Surveyor who also specialized in dilaps for big firms in London like yourself and he struggled a bit at the start as there was no directly comparable job in Aus (this was a few years ago so may have changed.)

He went to a small firm here that got bought out by KPMG with the view to getting more involved in Dilaps but it didn't take off as you are right, this is generally dealt with in house.

Also, where back in the UK a chartered building surveyor is a solid route into PM over here they seem to prefer PM's coming from an engineering background.

It's all good now and he's working as a PM for a regional local council, but it was quite frustrating at the start for him not having his experience and qualifications recognized for a while.

Luckily QS' are more transferable and they recognize the RICS as a good background (although prefer AIQS) but it's a much more traditional role here than in the UK.

Anyway good luck with it all it will all work out well I'm the end (i don't want to be another negative contributor to this forum - there are enough already!) just perhaps be prepared to pivot a little at the start with your job.

Cheers

EJMac

Thanks EJMAc -that all aligns with what I have heard elsewhere. Its good to hear that your brother in law found a way to make it work. Ive got my head around doing something a bit different - its just figuring out what!