Skani Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 33 minutes ago, Zeehayder said: To spend time together as a family for rest of the life Worried for my parents. Want to spend time with my family which is my right Want to make sure the rest of my parents' life is spent together and is hassle-free Want to make sure that my parents have support and access to their children whenever they need Isn't this my right or should I suffer/be punished for moving abroad You made the choice to migrate and leave your parents. The Australian government is under no obligation to accept the parents of a migrant so, no....it is not your "right". It may consent to do so...in which case be grateful. Very few countries even offer the possibility. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaH27 Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, Zeehayder said: I know but as stated a few times I am not doing anything illegal so why would I worry or hide? I am going by their defined rules and laws and checking out all possibilities with the community openly as I know my intentions. Now, do you allow me to explore options? I am surprised to see negativity/anger on this forum, if people commenting on this forum becomes visa offices/judge or start defining law then I would say RIP for for that sector Yes it’s a very emotive subject.! According to the website for 600 you must be applying as a “genuine visitor” ie you intend to return home! Obviously we all know people do go on to apply for another visa but it’s probably not the best thing to do to talk about it on an open forum. I’ve seen a lot of posts all over social media recently and 600 seems to be carrying more conditions. No further stay, shorter stay periods and proof of applicants own assets to prove they have sufficient funds for during their stay. I appreciate you will be paying for private health insurance ($50 per person seems very cheap to me !?) but are you aware that they would not be covered for any aged care at all on a bridging visa? Or if they become really ill during their wait and their potential costs would be over $49000 over 5 years they could be asked to leave. I do respect that, as you say, you look after your parents but sometimes things can go very wrong. Also I don’t know if you’re aware that the government do not like 804 visa and tried to stop it some years ago There is currently a senate enquiry going on into parent visas and is due to report in March next year. People and organisations were able to make submissions. There were many complaints about 804 and it’s likely they will be looking at this visa very closely once more It’s difficult for so many because they have to wait offshore - and it’s a very long wait now- so to be fair, all visa applicants should be able to have the same option. That’s probably the main reason why people get emotional about it. They could cope with the length of wait time if they could do it onshore with their families. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeehayder Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 Just now, Skani said: You made the choice to migrate and leave your parents. The Australian government is under no obligation to accept the parents of a migrant so, no....it is not your "right". It may consent to do so...in which case be grateful. Very few countries even offer the possibility. so you are saying everyone who moves abroad for their career and then wants to bring their parents along should be punished or should select one of the options? where does it say that? When we move abroad nowhere it was mentioned as a condition that once I move abroad and get settled I cannot live with your parents if that was the condition on my papers then you can say that I am glad that we have rules and laws else people like you can make their own hatred rules. I never said that Australia govt is under obligation, I am just exploring all available options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeehayder Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, LindaH27 said: Yes it’s a very emotive subject.! According to the website for 600 you must be applying as a “genuine visitor” ie you intend to return home! Obviously we all know people do go on to apply for another visa but it’s probably not the best thing to do to talk about it on an open forum. I’ve seen a lot of posts all over social media recently and 600 seems to be carrying more conditions. No further stay, shorter stay periods and proof of applicants own assets to prove they have sufficient funds for during their stay. I appreciate you will be paying for private health insurance ($50 per person seems very cheap to me !?) but are you aware that they would not be covered for any aged care at all on a bridging visa? Or if they become really ill during their wait and their potential costs would be over $49000 over 5 years they could be asked to leave. I do respect that, as you say, you look after your parents but sometimes things can go very wrong. Also I don’t know if you’re aware that the government do not like 804 visa and tried to stop it some years ago There is currently a senate enquiry going on into parent visas and is due to report in March next year. People and organisations were able to make submissions. There were many complaints about 804 and it’s likely they will be looking at this visa very closely once more It’s difficult for so many because they have to wait offshore - and it’s a very long wait now- so to be fair, all visa applicants should be able to have the same option. That’s probably the main reason why people get emotional about it. They could cope with the length of wait time if they could do it onshore with their families. I fully agree and understand hence I am exploring options that I have. I am aware of the expenses, I am already supporting them so that does not bother me at all. They won't need aged care as they will stay with us and we will be taking care of them until they are alive. We do not believe in sending parents to old age house which is very common culture there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 56 minutes ago, Zeehayder said: When we move abroad nowhere it was mentioned as a condition that once I move abroad and get settled I cannot live with your parents if that was the condition on my papers then you can say that all available options It may not say that in so many words, but the fact is that your visa was issued to allow you, plus spouse and children if applicable, to migrate to Australia. Nowhere in the visa grant does it say that you can ask you extended family to join you later. It may the norm in your own country to count your parents as part of your family unit, and to expect them to be able to reside with you in their old age, but it is not the norm in Australia. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 56 minutes ago, Zeehayder said: I fully agree and understand hence I am exploring options that I have. I am aware of the expenses, I am already supporting them so that does not bother me at all. They won't need aged care as they will stay with us and we will be taking care of them until they are alive. We do not believe in sending parents to old age house which is very common culture there. Maybe it would be best to return and look after them in your home country if you dont believe in the way things are done in Australia - just saying! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeehayder Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 25 minutes ago, Nemesis said: It may not say that in so many words, but the fact is that your visa was issued to allow you, plus spouse and children if applicable, to migrate to Australia. Nowhere in the visa grant does it say that you can ask you extended family to join you later. It may the norm in your own country to count your parents as part of your family unit, and to expect them to be able to reside with you in their old age, but it is not the norm in Australia. Not sure if you know or not but they recently added parents to immediate family . #innovation #humanity #familyvalues I am an immediate family member of an Australian citizen or permanent resident or New Zealand citizen usually resident in Australia Entry to Australia remains controlled to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. You can only travel to Australia if you are exempt or you have been granted an individual exemption. You can travel to Australia if you are an immediate family member of: an Australian citizen an Australian permanent resident (permanent visa holder) a New Zealand citizen who is usually resident in Australia. You are only considered to be an immediate family member if you are: a spouse a de facto partner a dependent child a parent/legal guardian of a dependent child a parent of an adult Australian citizen or permanent resident (available from 1 November 2021). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeehayder Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 27 minutes ago, Nemesis said: It may not say that in so many words, but the fact is that your visa was issued to allow you, plus spouse and children if applicable, to migrate to Australia. Nowhere in the visa grant does it say that you can ask you extended family to join you later. It may the norm in your own country to count your parents as part of your family unit, and to expect them to be able to reside with you in their old age, but it is not the norm in Australia. nowhere it says you CANNOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeehayder Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, AJ said: Maybe it would be best to return and look after them in your home country if you dont believe in the way things are done in Australia - just saying! You missed the word culture so I never said I don't believe the way things are done in Australia. Cultural differences and values will always stay hence we have diverse word (and diversity training ) existing in this world Edited November 11, 2021 by Zeehayder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlefoot Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Zeehayder said: Isn't this my right? No, it’s not. That’s the beginning and the end of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 11 hours ago, Zeehayder said: so you are saying everyone who moves abroad for their career and then wants to bring their parents along should be punished or should select one of the options? What I am saying is that most countries don't have a parent visa. Australia issues a limited number but there is no guarantee that everyone who wants a parent visa will receive one. That should be obvious to anyone before they migrate if they have done proper research. If being with your parents is your main priority then migrating is not the right choice. And for anyone who wants to pull the "hard hearted" card: all non indigenous Australians are the descendants of migrants - 99.9% of whom were unable to bring their parents and most of whom never saw their parents again after migrating, even on holiday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Zeehayder said: Not sure if you know or not but they recently added parents to immediate family . #innovation #humanity #familyvalues I am an immediate family member of an Australian citizen or permanent resident or New Zealand citizen usually resident in Australia Entry to Australia remains controlled to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. You can only travel to Australia if you are exempt or you have been granted an individual exemption. You can travel to Australia if you are an immediate family member of: an Australian citizen an Australian permanent resident (permanent visa holder) a New Zealand citizen who is usually resident in Australia. You are only considered to be an immediate family member if you are: a spouse a de facto partner a dependent child a parent/legal guardian of a dependent child a parent of an adult Australian citizen or permanent resident (available from 1 November 2021). This is ONLY for visitor travel exemptions not for resident visas. Your parents could apply to come as visitors but are currently unable to apply for another visa until your brother obtains PR in Australia. The UK (as you must know) does not even have a parent visa and Australia has reduced places even for the contributory visa, making the queue very long. No one is keeping your family apart deliberately you just need to appreciate that you may not be able to choose which country to be together in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Zeehayder said: nowhere it says you CANNOT So you think when you apply for a visa there should be a long list of things you cannot do, such as "you cannot bring your brothers and sisters or your aunt or your best friend"? Be sensible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Flu Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 What most are forgetting is a few decades back I recall family migration component was indeed the largest intake for a period. While at the moment it is geared towards supposedly skilled migrants, although more a numbers game, there is nothing to suggest bringing in parents will need remain difficult in the future. The main component of make up of the intake stream , being by far from The Indian Sub Continent, which in a few years will likely pass England born Australian migrants, will in all likelihood as a result wield more in political terms and such concerns being expressed by OP will most likely be looked at ever more favourably. My advise to OP would be find the best way to work around the present policy, probably holiday visa and then await a further change in government policy on immigration matters down the track. The matter raised must be one of major concern within this community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Blue Flu said: What most are forgetting is a few decades back I recall family migration component was indeed the largest intake for a period. While at the moment it is geared towards supposedly skilled migrants, although more a numbers game, there is nothing to suggest bringing in parents will need remain difficult in the future. You're missing the point that in the early days, Australia was desperate to attract skilled migrants and was therefore willing to accept the additional cost of dependants. The trend for many years has been the steady reduction in the kind of dependants accepted. Nowadays there are thousands of people falling over themselves to get into Australia, and for everyone who wants to bring a parent or a sibling or an adult child, there's a dozen who have no such baggage to worry about. Until that changes, I can't see any reason for the government to take on the massive cost of accepting aged parents. Edited November 12, 2021 by Marisawright 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaH27 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Blue Flu said: What most are forgetting is a few decades back I recall family migration component was indeed the largest intake for a period. While at the moment it is geared towards supposedly skilled migrants, although more a numbers game, there is nothing to suggest bringing in parents will need remain difficult in the future. The main component of make up of the intake stream , being by far from The Indian Sub Continent, which in a few years will likely pass England born Australian migrants, will in all likelihood as a result wield more in political terms and such concerns being expressed by OP will most likely be looked at ever more favourably. My advise to OP would be find the best way to work around the present policy, probably holiday visa and then await a further change in government policy on immigration matters down the track. The matter raised must be one of major concern within this community. Actually I’ve seen a chart where it shows that in terms of parent visas the top country is India, then China and the UK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Flu Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 minute ago, LindaH27 said: Actually I’ve seen a chart where it shows that in terms of parent visas the top country is India, then China and the UK! That would fit in with the immigration stats of India being being source of migration, now having just replaced China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Flu Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Marisawright said: You're missing the point that in the early days, Australia was desperate to attract skilled migrants and was therefore willing to accept the additional cost of dependants. The trend for many years has been the steady reduction in the kind of dependants accepted. Nowadays there are thousands of people falling over themselves to get into Australia, and for everyone who wants to bring a parent or a sibling or an adult child, there's a dozen who have no such baggage to worry about. Until that changes, I can't see any reason for the government to take on the massive cost of accepting aged parents. It was ALP policy for a time in the 80's. I don't recall it was a long standing policy and had moved to skilled migration by the nineties. Nowadays entire tone and policy towards migration has changed. Lots of vested interests at play. With more recent migrant groups becoming ever more influential and numerous , it is probable policy will change to accommodate change. This could easily be done at not necessarily large cost if sponsors are responsible for parents upkeep . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Blue Flu said: Nowadays entire tone and policy towards migration has changed. ....With more recent migrant groups becoming ever more influential and numerous , it is probable policy will change to accommodate change. This could easily be done at not necessarily large cost if sponsors are responsible for parents upkeep . I don't think it's surprising that the tone has changed. Australia is no longer a brand new country crying out for migrants. Because of that, its policies are slowly falling into line with Europe, the UK and the US - designed to keep people out, rather than encourage people to come in. If you look at the experience in those countries, second and third generation migrants, even from countries like India, are just as likely to want closed borders to prevent "foreigners taking our jobs" as older citizens. So I'm not convinced the attitude would change in the future, unless Australia experiences a sudden boom and suddenly requires a lot of extra people. Mind you, if sponsors were made responsible for parents' upkeep, I would have no problem with such a policy change. BUT there would have to be a rigid rule that says, "if the sponsor can't pay, the parent goes home". If not, we would have a constant stream of sponsors running social media campaigns whining, "Oh my poor father, he's been here10 years so it would be inhumane to send him back, the Australian government should let him stay and give him a Medicare card/pension because I can't afford it any more. Yes I know I should have thought of that, but I'm entitled because I've brought such amazing value to the country as a migrant, so just gimme the taxpayers' money now". Edited November 12, 2021 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaH27 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Blue Flu said: It was ALP policy for a time in the 80's. I don't recall it was a long standing policy and had moved to skilled migration by the nineties. Nowadays entire tone and policy towards migration has changed. Lots of vested interests at play. With more recent migrant groups becoming ever more influential and numerous , it is probable policy will change to accommodate change. This could easily be done at not necessarily large cost if sponsors are responsible for parents upkeep . I do have a suspicion that if they do decide to keep 804 visa they may remove the reciprocal health care and add a condition to make sponsors/parents pay for all medical care as this is the stumbling block in not increasing the quota. The govt have worked out that each parent costs around $410,000 from entry into Australia until their death. The contributory visa cost is supposed to go towards Medicare which is why it costs more. You do need deep pockets on 804 and for a long time - plus the uncertainty of only having a temporary bridging visa. It would be very hard if people sell up before moving over to perhaps find they fail the initial medical 2-3 years down the line when they probably feel more settled - but have no home to go to and have to start afresh at an advanced age 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, LindaH27 said: I do have a suspicion that if they do decide to keep 804 visa they may remove the reciprocal health care and add a condition to make sponsors/parents pay for all medical care as this is the stumbling block in not increasing the quota. The govt have worked out that each parent costs around $410,000 from entry into Australia until their death. The contributory visa cost is supposed to go towards Medicare which is why it costs more. You do need deep pockets on 804 and for a long time - plus the uncertainty of only having a temporary bridging visa. It would be very hard if people sell up before moving over to perhaps find they fail the initial medical 2-3 years down the line when they probably feel more settled - but have no home to go to and have to start afresh at an advanced age I’ve wondered if the reason the two long term self funded temporary retirement visas were closed to new applicants was because lots of people ran short of money and tried to get government support that they weren’t entitled to. On the basis they had lived here for many many years, bought a property and contributed to the economy. You had to re apply for both visas and still meet the conditions of the visa, otherwise it wasn’t renewed and you had to leave. If those were the reasons, then I think it would be doubtful that the government would consider changing the 804 visa conditions. There has been an enormous increase to the number of people who are now applying for parent visas, since I came nearly 19 years ago. The few people I know who came on the 804 visa, in the early 2000’s, seemed to only wait 6/7 years for their visas. I can’t help but feel that the 804 visa will be reviewed, as it must become unsustainable for the country to provide Medicare for 30 years plus to the large number of people on this very long term temporary visa, who will cost more and more as they age, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) On 09/11/2021 at 22:32, Zeehayder said: Thanks, Maria for your message, I really appreciate you spending time to read and reply back.basic-visitor-cover-factsheet.pdf I understand the consequences but as stated I support them and send them expenses every month but the main concern is that they are alone there and have no one to support them. At this age we want them to be with their children and not alone. We should be serving them in this age. In regards to expense, I did check overseas visitor insurance and good cover insurance costs approximately $50 per week for the couple, please see fact sheet attached as it covers most of the things like Emergency, GP, Dental. It will cost me approximately $2500 - $3000 per year to cover them medically. I also understand travel restrictions, we are happy with that as they would be staying mainly with us and occasionally going to UK or Dublin every year which can be achieved by getting BVB. Last point about passing medical at age of 80 approx, if they fail then we will go with some other options based on human rights as there is no way they will say to send back 80 year old couple after spending 15 years. The main point is even if we get time with them until 80 then it will be a wish come true. I understand all the consequences but I believe there is workaround for everything as we are not willing to leave them alone there for the rest of their life. My question is, is it doable for them to travel on an existing visit visa and then apply for a permanent visa? If yes, do they fulfil the requirements? Quote Zeehayder, there are probably different levels of overseas health cover, but you do need to consider the level of cover that your parents will realistically need. We were on Medibank overseas health cover for 16 years and up to 2 years ago when we finally got PR, we were paying over $11,000 annually for our cover. It goes up every year, as you have no choice but to pay to live here. One year it went up 42%!!!!! ps dental cover was never enough to cover dental work, we always had to pay more, but it pays to go to a dentist recommended by the health provider, as some things might be included Sadly I do know people who were on the self funded temporary retirement visa, who did have to leave the country as they could no longer afford to live here. They retired here, some only had one child here others had none, but the fact remains they had to leave, as they weren’t entitled to any help in Australia Edited November 12, 2021 by ramot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaH27 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 2 hours ago, ramot said: I’ve wondered if the reason the two long term self funded temporary retirement visas were closed to new applicants was because lots of people ran short of money and tried to get government support that they weren’t entitled to. On the basis they had lived here for many many years, bought a property and contributed to the economy. You had to re apply for both visas and still meet the conditions of the visa, otherwise it wasn’t renewed and you had to leave. If those were the reasons, then I think it would be doubtful that the government would consider changing the 804 visa conditions. There has been an enormous increase to the number of people who are now applying for parent visas, since I came nearly 19 years ago. The few people I know who came on the 804 visa, in the early 2000’s, seemed to only wait 6/7 years for their visas. I can’t help but feel that the 804 visa will be reviewed, as it must become unsustainable for the country to provide Medicare for 30 years plus to the large number of people on this very long term temporary visa, who will cost more and more as they age, It sounds entirely possible that those visas ended because of the conditions about self funding and the yearly increases. I would agree with you on that. I know that private health insurance in UK jumps massively once you reach 65 and most have to stop using it. Once of my friends was paying £148 per month and on reaching 65 she was told her premium would go up to £543!!! Needless to say she stopped paying for it I’m very sure they will be looking very carefully at 804 - especially when they notice the numbers of people prepared to apply for it will start shooting up once they get over there - I’ve seen so many posts here and on other forums where others are promoting 804 as the answer to the long queues for contributory parents. The whole system needs looking at - there are too many loopholes at present. I know there’s also a lot of anger especially among parents waiting for years offshore about the the recent loophole whereby people who may have only recently applied for 143 but who were in Australia when the borders closed, were able to obtain a bridging visa enabling them to stay onshore until grant of 143 many many years in the future. That was unfair to all those in the queue. The bridging visa should only have been valid until the borders opened. Others mainly young people on temporary visas were told to go home whereas older parents on temporary visas could end up staying. Australia really needs to get a grip on its immigration policies otherwise it’s opening itself up to unsustainable massive expense in the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaH27 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 @Zeehayder could you tell me which company you intend using? Only the cheaper ones seem to be only for Australia residents ie those with PR and not bridging visas and I’m concerned you’re not seeing the current cover which should be for overseas temporary visitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 The other option you probably are aware is visa 870. This long-term temporary visa is for 3-5 years, and maximum for 10 years. The issue is that the current waiting time for 143 is so long that 10 years may not be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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