Matthew Smith Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Hi Folks, newbie to the site and potentially looking to move to Oz in a couple of years. I am British born but privileged to have an Aussie passport through descent from my sadly deceased father. I am married with my Thai wife (British Citizen for about 10 years now) and have 2 sons ages 12 & 10 respectively born and bred in the UK. Considering going for a family visa with my wife and 2 sons whilst they are about to go into secondary education and suspect it will be easier now. However my question is if i moved to Oz as a retiree instead in about 10 years from now without the boys as they potentially would be in University here in the UK how long would i have to live in Oz for them to receive Citizenship by descent from me? Or this only possible if i am Ozzie born?...Appreciate any help or advice on this topic as will help me make an informed decision on whether to pack our bags now or to leave it for another 10 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) How long did you live in Australia prior to their birth? if you didnt live in Australia at all before they were born then you cannot hand down citizenship to them because you have only acquired your citizenship by descent. If you were to go now, your wife would require a partner visa with your sons as her dependents. Edited April 13, 2021 by Quoll 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Smith Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Thanks for responding unfortunately i have never lived in Australia myself as i received my Australian passport through descent from my Australian born Father...hence if i did move to Australia and then lived there for a period of time how long would it be for me to get them citizenship whilst they remained in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 44 minutes ago, Matthew Smith said: Thanks for responding unfortunately i have never lived in Australia myself as i received my Australian passport through descent from my Australian born Father...hence if i did move to Australia and then lived there for a period of time how long would it be for me to get them citizenship whilst they remained in the UK? They cant get it through you. You would have had to have lived in Australia before they were born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Smith Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Thank you... I thought as much. Looks like we will have to pack our bags now then !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Matthew Smith said: Thank you... I thought as much. Looks like we will have to pack our bags now then !! Definitely. If you wait till they leave school, they will be too old to be included on your visa application and they'll have no chance of getting a visa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Quoll said: How long did you live in Australia prior to their birth? if you didnt live in Australia at all before they were born then you cannot hand down citizenship to them because you have only acquired your citizenship by descent. If you were to go now, your wife would require a partner visa with your sons as her dependents. That is not the case. The parent only has to spend two years in Australia prior to the descendent's citizenship application, not before their birth: (i) the parent has been present in Australia (except as an unlawful non-citizen) for a total period of at least 2 years at any time before the person made the application; or http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aca2007254/s16.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Marisawright said: Definitely. If you wait till they leave school, they will be too old to be included on your visa application and they'll have no chance of getting a visa. Why would he get a visa ? If he has an Australian passport that means he is an Australian citizen. He does not need a visa and cannot get one for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Matthew Smith said: Thank you... I thought as much. Looks like we will have to pack our bags now then !! You need to spend a total of two years in Australia as a lawful citizen before your children are eligible to apply for citizenship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 6 hours ago, Matthew Smith said: Hi Folks, newbie to the site and potentially looking to move to Oz in a couple of years. I am British born but privileged to have an Aussie passport through descent from my sadly deceased father. I am married with my Thai wife (British Citizen for about 10 years now) and have 2 sons ages 12 & 10 respectively born and bred in the UK. Considering going for a family visa with my wife and 2 sons whilst they are about to go into secondary education and suspect it will be easier now. However my question is if i moved to Oz as a retiree instead in about 10 years from now without the boys as they potentially would be in University here in the UK how long would i have to live in Oz for them to receive Citizenship by descent from me? Or this only possible if i am Ozzie born?...Appreciate any help or advice on this topic as will help me make an informed decision on whether to pack our bags now or to leave it for another 10 years... When did you get your Australian Citizenship? For Australian Citizenship by Descent you must have applied for it and you will have a Citizenship certificate. Assuming your kids were born subsequently, they should be able to apply for Australian citizenship by descent too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Parley said: When did you get your Australian Citizenship? For Australian Citizenship by Descent you must have applied for it and you will have a Citizenship certificate. Assuming your kids were born subsequently, they should be able to apply for Australian citizenship by descent too. Not if he hasn't lived in Australia for 2 years first, which according to the above posts he hasn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, NicF said: Not if he hasn't lived in Australia for 2 years first, which according to the above posts he hasn't. He says he has an Australian passport which means he is a citizen. I became a citizen never having lived in Australia. Organised in London as my Mum was Australia. This 2 years thing doesn't sound right to me. Maybe thats a new rule. My Mum was Australian born. Anyway if he has a passport then is a citizen and cant apply for a visa. Edited April 14, 2021 by Parley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Parley said: He says he has an Australian passport which means he is a citizen. I became a citizen never having lived in Australia. Organised in London as my Mum was Australia. This 2 years thing doesn't sound right to me. Read the link above. If you have Australian citizenship by descent, which the OP does (and which allows you to get a passport), then you cannot pass the citizenship down to any children unless you have spent at least 2 years in Australia prior to the application for the child's citizenship. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, NicF said: Not if he hasn't lived in Australia for 2 years first, which according to the above posts he hasn't. There is no rule requiring 2 years of residence in Australia prior to the children's birth, the only requirement is for two years of residence in Australia prior to the children applying for their own Australian citizenship. Even that can be overridden in special circumstances (e.g., if the children are stateless). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 minute ago, rtritudr said: There is no rule requiring 2 years of residence in Australia prior to the children's birth, I never said there was. Parley said he could pass down the citizenship to his children and I said he couldn't unless he had spent 2 years in Australia prior to the application (for citizenship by descent for the children.) As the OP has never spent any time in Australia his children cannot apply for citizenship by descent. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 He can move here unconditionally as a citizen. Would need to get some sort of spouse visa. Should be straightforward to bring his wife and kids with him if he is a citizen I expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Parley said: He can move here unconditionally as a citizen. Would need to get some sort of spouse visa. Should be straightforward to bring his wife and kids with him if he is a citizen I expect. If he moved now, with the kids, they would need a visa as well, but they would just be included as dependents on the wife's visa application. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 36 minutes ago, rtritudr said: That is not the case. The parent only has to spend two years in Australia prior to the descendent's citizenship application, not before their birth: (i) the parent has been present in Australia (except as an unlawful non-citizen) for a total period of at least 2 years at any time before the person made the application; or http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aca2007254/s16.html I think people are getting very confused here. You are an Australian citizen, or you are not. There is no second class 'australian citizen by descent'. You can claim Australian citizenship by descent. And when you do this will affect when you're children can claim. But once you claim Australian citizenship, then you are an Australian citizen. As long as you were an Australian citizen at the time of your children's birth, and you have spent two years in Australia, your children will be able to claim Australian citizenship by descent, and they will then be Australian citizens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 5 hours ago, rtritudr said: There is no rule requiring 2 years of residence in Australia prior to the children's birth, the only requirement is for two years of residence in Australia prior to the children applying for their own Australian citizenship. Even that can be overridden in special circumstances (e.g., if the children are stateless). Mea culpa, you are correct! Live and learn. As long as the parent was a citizen by descent before their birth though. So they would need to be dependents on the spouse visa in the first instance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Returns Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 @Matthew Smith I wouldn't use you real name on this (or any other) forum - especially, as you've also included a lot of personal information. It's just not good practice in this day and age. I am also an Australian citizen who applied for a partner visa for my wife of Asian origin about 10 years ago, and I will forewarn you that you' are going to need some stamina. You will need all her original documents translated from Thai, as well a full record of her parents and siblings date of birth, and just about everything else including their shoe sizes! Expect you application to be scrutinsed more than most, but it should help that she's already a British citizen. I would start collecting all the documents and evidence you require now, as it may well take months before you're in a position to submit the application. Using a registered migration agent will increase your chances of success. I do not envy you at all, but sitting here enjoying the sunset on the Sunshine Coast this evening I can assure you it was definitely worth all the effort. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Smith Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 Thank you everyone for replying here. Truly grateful ... point noted about personal attribution and will remedy that shortly.. but thank you all for your comments truly appreciated... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveshe Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 On 14/04/2021 at 09:50, newjez said: I think people are getting very confused here. You are an Australian citizen, or you are not. There is no second class 'australian citizen by descent'. You can claim Australian citizenship by descent. And when you do this will affect when you're children can claim. But once you claim Australian citizenship, then you are an Australian citizen. As long as you were an Australian citizen at the time of your children's birth, and you have spent two years in Australia, your children will be able to claim Australian citizenship by descent, and they will then be Australian citizens. So he would have to live here as a citizen first for 2 years before the kids can apply as he has never ever lived here before , so the kids will have to come over on the mothers visa whichever one she chooses . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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