Management accountant through experience (not certified)

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

Hi,

 

Im new to the forum. I wanted to find out from other peoples’ experiences about skills assessment for accountants.

My partner has a degree in economics finance and banking; more than 5-years work experience as an accountant (at least); has finished half of his Chartered Institute of Management Accounting exams; and has been employed as a Management Accountant for almost 2-years.

Despite not being fully accredited by CIMA (which directly translates to CPA as far as I am aware), would his experience give him a likely positive skills assessment outcome?

Any accountants who have emigrated from UK to Aus with this issue, that have any information, would be welcomed! 
 

Thanks

[Ausvisitor]

20 minutes ago, Animals+Aus=Dreams said:

Hi,

 

Im new to the forum. I wanted to find out from other peoples’ experiences about skills assessment for accountants.

My partner has a degree in economics finance and banking; more than 5-years work experience as an accountant (at least); has finished half of his Chartered Institute of Management Accounting exams; and has been employed as a Management Accountant for almost 2-years.

Despite not being fully accredited by CIMA (which directly translates to CPA as far as I am aware), would his experience give him a likely positive skills assessment outcome?

Any accountants who have emigrated from UK to Aus with this issue, that have any information, would be welcomed! 
 

Thanks

All the accounting related job codes for immigration say

1) Would usually have a degree

2) Minimum 5 years experience (experience as an accountant won't count towards MA role, but MA role may count to the Accountant role)

3) Usually accreditted through trade organisation (in your case CIMA)

 

Remember it doesn't matter what you apply as - once you have a 189 or 190 visa you can do any job; so you can get migration as an accountant but then work as an astronaut if you want.

Also as of today, all immigration is pretty much frozen - with no actual date yet set for a restart

Best bet - call a MARA agent and talk them through your situation

[Marisawright]

27 minutes ago, Animals+Aus=Dreams said:

My partner has a degree in economics finance and banking; more than 5-years work experience as an accountant (at least); has finished half of his Chartered Institute of Management Accounting exams; and has been employed as a Management Accountant for almost 2-years.

Despite not being fully accredited by CIMA (which directly translates to CPA as far as I am aware), would his experience give him a likely positive skills assessment outcome?

As Ausvisitor says, the best plan is talk to an agent. The good ones will give you a free initial consultation.  Try SunCoast Migration or Go Matilda.  

Your biggest problem is that the visa process is highly competitive.   Only applicants with the highest points are invited, and the rest just lose their money.  You only need 65 points to be allowed to apply for a visa - but accountants need to score at least 95 points to stand any chance. 

https://www.iscah.com/will-get-189-invitation-january-2020-estimates/

Note too, that was before Covid.  The government has held back on confirming the occupation list or quotas for 2020/21 (they're usually announced by now).  There is talk that they may not be issued until October.  They have been talking about removing Accountants from the list for a couple of years now, because there has been an over-supply - so you can only wait and see. 

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

Thanks for the info, appreciate the time you took to reply. 
 

Regards

[elderberry]

I tried to apply for skills assessment initially with CPA when I was a finalist but not qualified (CIMA). They wanted a breakdown of all the modules and pass marks, then rejected my skills assessment highlighting about 6 modules to complete with CPA to be able to be pass the assessment. I then waited a few months, passed my finals and applied again as a member, came back very soon as a pass.

 

[Ferrets]

Likewise I found that experience prior to completion of CIMA was not counted.

Accounting is odd in that it is one of the few profoessions (last time I checked) where technically you don't need experience just the positive skills assessment. 

That means that unless you have studeid in Australia & done a Professional Year (both tuition fee rorts) it is very difficult to get the required points, with recent invites north of 85 points as highlighted above.

You need a strategy, and as flagged one of the MARA agents here will be able to support.  In the overall scheme of moving to Australia the cost (if any over inial consultation) is immaterial.

Good luck!

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

On 03/07/2020 at 01:52, elderberry said:

I tried to apply for skills assessment initially with CPA when I was a finalist but not qualified (CIMA). They wanted a breakdown of all the modules and pass marks, then rejected my skills assessment highlighting about 6 modules to complete with CPA to be able to be pass the assessment. I then waited a few months, passed my finals and applied again as a member, came back very soon as a pass.

 

Thank you for the response!

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

On 04/07/2020 at 06:59, Ferrets said:

Likewise I found that experience prior to completion of CIMA was not counted.

Accounting is odd in that it is one of the few profoessions (last time I checked) where technically you don't need experience just the positive skills assessment. 

That means that unless you have studeid in Australia & done a Professional Year (both tuition fee rorts) it is very difficult to get the required points, with recent invites north of 85 points as highlighted above.

You need a strategy, and as flagged one of the MARA agents here will be able to support.  In the overall scheme of moving to Australia the cost (if any over inial consultation) is immaterial.

Good luck!

Thanks!

[Conyo2588]

Hi, I’m also an accountant (ACCA qualified 2019) but had been working in that area for years prior (as you do whilst studying etc)

I completed an online questionnaire which said I was eligible to apply as I had over 65 points. 

Upon speaking to an agent, I found you can only claim work points for post qualification experience. Also, the barrier is that high for accountants now (95-100) that it’s nigh on impossible to get in unless you have points for Australian study/work. 

We’re currently in the process of trying to get a regional 491 visa on my partners job. I had a skills assessment for extra partner points to his visa, just sent them my AAT & ACCA certs and it came back really quickly. 
 

I suggest you speak to a MARA agent and get their advice, if you haven’t already done so. 
 

Hope you get some good news

[VERYSTORMY]

9 hours ago, Conyo2588 said:

Hi, I’m also an accountant (ACCA qualified 2019) but had been working in that area for years prior (as you do whilst studying etc)

I completed an online questionnaire which said I was eligible to apply as I had over 65 points. 

Upon speaking to an agent, I found you can only claim work points for post qualification experience. Also, the barrier is that high for accountants now (95-100) that it’s nigh on impossible to get in unless you have points for Australian study/work. 

We’re currently in the process of trying to get a regional 491 visa on my partners job. I had a skills assessment for extra partner points to his visa, just sent them my AAT & ACCA certs and it came back really quickly. 
 

I suggest you speak to a MARA agent and get their advice, if you haven’t already done so. 
 

Hope you get some good news

The 491 and 190 are currently closed. Also, have a hard think about the ability to find a job in a regional area as an accountant. If, when the 491 and 190:reopen, it is still available. Which I wouldn’t bank on. Most people have been surprised for years it is still on the list given there has been an over supply of accountants in Oz for years. 

[Conyo2588]

We’re looking at a 491 on my partners trade, not accountancy.

Also, I have seen jobs in Adelaide for accountants, are you saying you anticipate there not being much work there for my field?

[Raul Senise]

On 02/07/2020 at 18:12, Animals+Aus=Dreams said:

Im new to the forum. I wanted to find out from other peoples’ experiences about skills assessment for accountants.

My partner has a degree in economics finance and banking; more than 5-years work experience as an accountant (at least); has finished half of his Chartered Institute of Management Accounting exams; and has been employed as a Management Accountant for almost 2-years.

Despite not being fully accredited by CIMA (which directly translates to CPA as far as I am aware), would his experience give him a likely positive skills assessment outcome?

Any accountants who have emigrated from UK to Aus with this issue, that have any information, would be welcomed! 

Skills assessments for Accountants require the completion of a relevant qualifications which covers the required number of subjects for the accounting occupation being nominated. 

If all required subjects are not covered by the qualification, no amount of experience will suffice.

The only exception to this is the occupation of Internal Auditor as this is assessed by a different assessing body.

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

16 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

The 491 and 190 are currently closed. Also, have a hard think about the ability to find a job in a regional area as an accountant. If, when the 491 and 190:reopen, it is still available. Which I wouldn’t bank on. Most people have been surprised for years it is still on the list given there has been an over supply of accountants in Oz for years. 

Yeah, I believe so, thus we are trying my route for a visa in Animal work. We are very much aware that this may not be achieveable for us sadly, particularly with the current global issues. Thank you.

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

11 hours ago, Raul Senise said:

Skills assessments for Accountants require the completion of a relevant qualifications which covers the required number of subjects for the accounting occupation being nominated. 

If all required subjects are not covered by the qualification, no amount of experience will suffice.

The only exception to this is the occupation of Internal Auditor as this is assessed by a different assessing body.

Thank you for the insight. I suspected as much and actually this is what CPA themselves have confirmed, as I have since contacted them as well.

 

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

On 14/07/2020 at 08:05, Conyo2588 said:

Hi, I’m also an accountant (ACCA qualified 2019) but had been working in that area for years prior (as you do whilst studying etc)

I completed an online questionnaire which said I was eligible to apply as I had over 65 points. 

Upon speaking to an agent, I found you can only claim work points for post qualification experience. Also, the barrier is that high for accountants now (95-100) that it’s nigh on impossible to get in unless you have points for Australian study/work. 

We’re currently in the process of trying to get a regional 491 visa on my partners job. I had a skills assessment for extra partner points to his visa, just sent them my AAT & ACCA certs and it came back really quickly. 
 

I suggest you speak to a MARA agent and get their advice, if you haven’t already done so. 
 

Hope you get some good news

Thank you for the advice. Yes, we have spoken with an agent but it’s mostly been regarding my chances of obtaining a 491, as we were told straight away that getting accountants in is really tricky (inundated). When I have checked the invites for the states, they still get some through however. 
 

I think my nominated occupation as animal attendant and trainer (I actually work in veterinary and animal care, but not a nurse) is going to be such a long shot getting in, I wanted to double check the accounting. 

[Ausvisitor]

1 hour ago, Animals+Aus=Dreams said:

Thank you for the advice. Yes, we have spoken with an agent but it’s mostly been regarding my chances of obtaining a 491, as we were told straight away that getting accountants in is really tricky (inundated). When I have checked the invites for the states, they still get some through however. 
 

I think my nominated occupation as animal attendant and trainer (I actually work in veterinary and animal care, but not a nurse) is going to be such a long shot getting in, I wanted to double check the accounting. 

I think you need to have a long look at your plans in a "clear light of day" environment.

Let's assume you can get a 491 with your animal care background, that's great, it gets you to Australia. What do you do then? As you've been told there are next to no Management Accountant roles in regional australia so what is your partner going to so for the 5 years you have the 491 visa - after 3+ years you could apply for a PR and move to city but would you want to as by then you'd have a life in the place you settled.

I'm not trying to sat don't do it, I'm just highlighting that many people on here fixate on "getting to AUS by whatever means possible"; and only afterwards realise they've spent £15-£30k on getting visas that don't allow them to do what they want to do when they get there anyway.

Have the conversation with your partner about what they'll do for 5 years if they can't do their career and see what they think.

(People often come up with ideas of working for a large firm but from home, but these almost always fail the regional test as you are still contracted to a big city office and the work from home is a concession not a right)

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

45 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

I think you need to have a long look at your plans in a "clear light of day" environment.

Let's assume you can get a 491 with your animal care background, that's great, it gets you to Australia. What do you do then? As you've been told there are next to no Management Accountant roles in regional australia so what is your partner going to so for the 5 years you have the 491 visa - after 3+ years you could apply for a PR and move to city but would you want to as by then you'd have a life in the place you settled.

I'm not trying to sat don't do it, I'm just highlighting that many people on here fixate on "getting to AUS by whatever means possible"; and only afterwards realise they've spent £15-£30k on getting visas that don't allow them to do what they want to do when they get there anyway.

Have the conversation with your partner about what they'll do for 5 years if they can't do their career and see what they think.

(People often come up with ideas of working for a large firm but from home, but these almost always fail the regional test as you are still contracted to a big city office and the work from home is a concession not a right)

Hi.

 

We have been working on this for a good few years so know the ins and outs. We haven’t been told there aren’t jobs in accounting, we have just been told the government is so inundated for accounting visas that the chances of being put through are minimal, and mainly people apply for the independent visa to go to the cities. He is skilled in other areas of finance so I don’t think he will be out of work. We have quite good funding for supporting us for a while whilst we are out there as well. If we didn’t we just couldn’t consider it, because my work is the trickier component.

This is not a new whim for us, and thank you for your insights. I just am being super realistic about the situation and doubt I’ll get invited with such an obscure occupation that runs a heavy risk of being taken off the lists. 
 

I have emigrated before from a hot country and I miss the lifestyle of being outdoors in the sunshine and the pool, but am equally as happy being in the UK, where my opportunities have been incredible. If anything, stay here for more Disney World holidays and European Christmas markets

 

[Ausvisitor]

9 minutes ago, Animals+Aus=Dreams said:

Hi.

 

We have been working on this for a good few years so know the ins and outs. We haven’t been told there aren’t jobs in accounting, we have just been told the government is so inundated for accounting visas that the chances of being put through are minimal, and mainly people apply for the independent visa to go to the cities. He is skilled in other areas of finance so I don’t think he will be out of work. We have quite good funding for supporting us for a while whilst we are out there as well. If we didn’t we just couldn’t consider it, because my work is the trickier component.

This is not a new whim for us, and thank you for your insights. I just am being super realistic about the situation and doubt I’ll get invited with such an obscure occupation that runs a heavy risk of being taken off the lists. 
 

I have emigrated before from a hot country and I miss the lifestyle of being outdoors in the sunshine and the pool, but am equally as happy being in the UK, where my opportunities have been incredible. If anything, stay here for more Disney World holidays and European Christmas markets

 

Thanks for taking the post well - I obviously had no idea if you'd been planning for years or just days or if you'd ever emigrated before or not. It looks like you've thought this through well and assuming you can get a visa you sound like you'd both work at making it work as you aren't expecting it all to be a "Scott & Charlene Neighbours" fairytale (as those average normal Australian houses are $2m+)

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

No problem at all. You’re right though.

I particularly feel that younger people, at least those that I have met, think it’s quite an easy thing, but the reality of moving home and family makes it a lot tougher than moving out there on a 2-year temporary with nothing but your dreams and some dollars. We wish it were so right! This is our new life and we cannot sacrifice our entire livelihood. We had put the idea to bed a little while ago until an agent told me my occupation was up for grabs. So I thought I’d give it a bash. Let’s see hey.

 

Thanks for the help.

[starlight7]

They are rather overly obsessed with paper qualifications here I have to say but you never know- depends on the company I guess.

[Ausvisitor]

1 hour ago, Animals+Aus=Dreams said:

No problem at all. You’re right though.

I particularly feel that younger people, at least those that I have met, think it’s quite an easy thing, but the reality of moving home and family makes it a lot tougher than moving out there on a 2-year temporary with nothing but your dreams and some dollars. We wish it were so right! This is our new life and we cannot sacrifice our entire livelihood. We had put the idea to bed a little while ago until an agent told me my occupation was up for grabs. So I thought I’d give it a bash. Let’s see hey.

 

Thanks for the help.

It's the easiest thing in the world to migrate to AUS if you are under 30 and single (and from a reasonably economically stable country). Apply for a Working Holiday Visa - costs next to nothing, approved in a couple of weeks and rarely rejected.

Get over to AUS work for a year and travel around (being sure to do 3 months on a farm or something similar to qualify for a second WHV) - apply whilst there for 2nd WHV and then spend the year working wherever.

What happens after the second year depends on your skills and experience (but AUS skills/exp are worth more)

 

You are right it is so much harder to migrate once you get settled into family life and careers.

[Raul Senise]

11 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

Let's assume you can get a 491 with your animal care background, that's great, it gets you to Australia. What do you do then? As you've been told there are next to no Management Accountant roles in regional australia so what is your partner going to so for the 5 years you have the 491 visa

This is not necessarily correct.

Although the visa system has been inundated by applications in Accounting occupations, these are almost exclusively from international students who have studied Accounting in Australia, as this used to be an easy pathway to a visa.

As they have studied in Australia, they are able to achieve very high scores (young age, Australian study, study in Regional area, Australian professional year, etc) which has skewed the points for Accounting occupations.

The reality however, is that many of these applicants have no intention of ever working as Accountants once they achieve a visa.

Furthermore, many employers are not looking for your graduates with no experience in the field.

As such, employment opportunities for real Accountants with real experience do still exist.

[Marisawright]

17 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

It's the easiest thing in the world to migrate to AUS if you are under 30 and single (and from a reasonably economically stable country). Apply for a Working Holiday Visa - costs next to nothing, approved in a couple of weeks and rarely rejected.

Get over to AUS work for a year and travel around (being sure to do 3 months on a farm or something similar to qualify for a second WHV) - apply whilst there for 2nd WHV and then spend the year working wherever.

Yes, but that's not migrating.  Some WHV holders manage to transition to permanency but in reality, the percentage of WHV'ers who manage it is very low, and it usually takes a lot of determination and luck (and frustration) to get there. Backpacker hostels are full of myths about people who've done it but funnily enough, they can rarely name anyone who's actually made it. 

For a WHV'er to get PR, they would need to already have the required qualifications for a skilled visa before they arrive - and at least some of the experience as well, because they may not manage to get uninterrupted experience in their chosen field on a WHV.  So in reality, they could just as easily have stayed in their home country, got the experience there and applied direct  (except for some specific cases where Australian experience is required).  

I have seen backpackers who've managed to stay in Australia without thos qualifications, lurching from WHV to student visa to partner visa - but unless they manage to get qualified for a skilled visa, it doesn't last forever and they end up back home, having wasted precious years when they could have built a life and career, and usually broke. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

20 hours ago, Animals+Aus=Dreams said:

We have been working on this for a good few years so know the ins and outs. We haven’t been told there aren’t jobs in accounting, we have just been told the government is so inundated for accounting visas that the chances of being put through are minimal, and mainly people apply for the independent visa to go to the cities. He is skilled in other areas of finance so I don’t think he will be out of work.

If he's not bent on being a high-flyer, there is definitely work for finance professionals in the country.   He could open his own accountancy practice - farmers and businesses need accountants.  I'd advise him to look at training to be a tax agent and/or a financial adviser - both courses would be relatively easy for him, and allow him to offer a wider range of services. 

If you choose a regional city which has a university and/or a few private schools, those need accountants too.  Which state are you aiming at?

By the way, having an obscure occupation doesn't mean you're less likely to be invited - because there will be fewer applicants, too. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Marisawright

[Animals+Aus=Dreams]

Thanks for the positivity.