Johndoe Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 3 hours ago, newjez said: Personally I think he should have let the dead be buried before looking for blame. But one thing I will say, at least he met and made contact with these people. That wasn't just a photo shoot. That's more than can be said for many. The left are very good at photo opportunities...................albeit crap at answering press questions once given that opprtunity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, Johndoe said: The left are very good at photo opportunities...................albeit crap at answering press questions once given that opprtunity I don't think he's that good an actor. The man really cares about these people. Say what you want about his politics, but he has more compassion in his little finger than the entire Tory party. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 17 minutes ago, Johndoe said: Not really..................but yes........... He's a really a likeable bloke with admirable ideals who (perhaps) has done a few (questionably admirable) things in the sphere of reconciliation between certain factions, has furthered the cause for working class ideals/solidarity and of late, has unified/awakened the young voter, but sadly, despite his intelligence, seems to have ignored the lessons (that should be) learned from the past................... and that is.....................that the average Brit (working class/ lower class/ or otherwise) ain't accepting of (sudden/drastic) change via militancy, especially the elders who remember Scargills legacy and also recently, when that militancy seems to be driven by folk (irrespective of their accents) who are not of anglo saxon heritage. The folk "gobbing off" on news feeds re "posh area who thought the tower block was an eyesore and that "the insulation was fitted to suit the "posh bastards" and not really for insulation should be ashamed at attempting to make "class warfare" capital out of this, as should anyone who trumpets their call. It was the wrong insulation.............end of............cost cutting?.................perhaps?................class divide? ................hardly..........you cannot say that the rich would have been better treated because their properties would hardly need insulation anyways. For "gobshite mouthpieces" to say that the cladding was there purely for "cosmetics to suit the rich neighbours" so early in the game, reeks not of injustice/inequality but of making capital out of others' grief. Mistakes have clearly been made and any politician that turns this into a class warfare issue, irrespective of funding issues from either party, should be ashamed of themselves. I agree (mostly) and your post deserves more of a response but in summary. I thought he would give the establishment a deserved shake up - he did but he has awakened a monster and i don't think he will be able to control it . Yes brexit and trump did too but nothing compared to the militant left. Sorry but melting here!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, newjez said: I don't think he's that good an actor. The man really cares about these people. Say what you want about his politics, but he has more compassion in his little finger than the entire Tory party. Agreed, but as I have said in past threads, commitment, compassion, ideals, don't "get things done" in a capitalist world. You have only two choices.............pragmatism of thought to change what the capitalists are prepared to allow to change, and acceptance that without violence, other things can't be changed, or violent revolution..............recent events re the Arab Spring have shown that peaceful revolution achieves nothing other than allowing those that you oppose to "muster forces" to defeat you.......................so what is Corbyns (and the peoples choice)? Partial victory through protest/democracy/media facilitating a supposed electoral victory, whilst meanwhile, as history and Marx has pointed out, the capitalist have time to "muster" whilst those whom the revolutionaries are championing, risk inferno? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Quote Cladding on Grenfell Tower is banned on UK high-rises, says Philip Hammond https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/18/cladding-on-grenfell-tower-banned-in-uk-says-philip-hammond If that's true then how was that allowed to happen, who signed it off? someone should face corporate manslaughter charges!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 5 hours ago, newjez said: No I didn't. But there are two issues here. One the response of the government to provide for and safeguard the people left homeless by this fire, and secondly, what caused the fire and the implications and responsibilities of this. On the first Theresa May has already said the response was inadequate. On the second, this is particularly interesting. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/18/cladding-on-grenfell-tower-banned-in-uk-says-philip-hammond This stinks of government outsourcing without proper checks which is a cancer which has been growing. Australia is not immune to this sort of thing, with their insulation installation problems. Erm, the government were not in the slightest involved in the referb. Personally, I think those affected were very well looked after. All were given temporary accomodation and £500 each to get them through the first days. The banks met with them and explained they could access accounts with no information and they were promised rehousing within 3 weeks. What is disgusting is Corbyns sick behaviour. I can't remember a national disaster where the leader of the opposition visits. None. He has tried - along with his thugs causing disturbance - to make political gain from this. I am not surprised as he is a terrorist and his supporters are terror supporters who should be treated accordingly, but never thought I would see even terrorists behave in a way to use this for their own ends. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 48 minutes ago, amibovered said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/18/cladding-on-grenfell-tower-banned-in-uk-says-philip-hammond If that's true then how was that allowed to happen, who signed it off? someone should face corporate manslaughter charges!! LABC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, VERYSTORMY said: Erm, the government were not in the slightest involved in the referb. That was my point. It is owned by the council, run by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation. Do you not consider councils to be part of the government? Local government. Clues in the title. Edited June 18, 2017 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Johndoe said: Agreed, but as I have said in past threads, commitment, compassion, ideals, don't "get things done" in a capitalist world. You have only two choices.............pragmatism of thought to change what the capitalists are prepared to allow to change, and acceptance that without violence, other things can't be changed, or violent revolution..............recent events re the Arab Spring have shown that peaceful revolution achieves nothing other than allowing those that you oppose to "muster forces" to defeat you.......................so what is Corbyns (and the peoples choice)? Partial victory through protest/democracy/media facilitating a supposed electoral victory, whilst meanwhile, as history and Marx has pointed out, the capitalist have time to "muster" whilst those whom the revolutionaries are championing, risk inferno? To be fair, Arab spring hardly had a democratic recourse. There are examples very close to the UK which have a much better social safety net than the UK. It doesn't need violence. Just enough votes for the right candidate. It would cost me money. But it would be nice to see what a fairer society looks like. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, amibovered said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/18/cladding-on-grenfell-tower-banned-in-uk-says-philip-hammond If that's true then how was that allowed to happen, who signed it off? someone should face corporate manslaughter charges!! We are talking large sums of money. Corruption? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, VERYSTORMY said: Erm, the government were not in the slightest involved in the referb. Personally, I think those affected were very well looked after. All were given temporary accomodation and £500 each to get them through the first days. The banks met with them and explained they could access accounts with no information and they were promised rehousing within 3 weeks. What is disgusting is Corbyns sick behaviour. I can't remember a national disaster where the leader of the opposition visits. None. He has tried - along with his thugs causing disturbance - to make political gain from this. I am not surprised as he is a terrorist and his supporters are terror supporters who should be treated accordingly, but never thought I would see even terrorists behave in a way to use this for their own ends. Lol! I'll put that down to a warm weather rant. Try jumping in the loch to cool off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, simmo said: Yep, I can just see ed milliband flicking through the cladding catalogue, asking, do you have anything in blue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, simmo said: This is lies and misrepresentations which can be easily checked on Wikipedia Fake/false news written especially for consumption by swivel eyed loony readers of the Daily Mail ilk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said: This is lies and misrepresentations which can be easily checked on Wikipedia Fake/false news written especially for consumption by swivel eyed loony readers of the Daily Mail ilk Like the EU would recommend something banned in the EU. But there is truth there. There is always a seed of truth which they water with lies. Edited June 18, 2017 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, newjez said: Like the EU would recommend something banned in the EU. But there is truth there. There is always a seed of truth which they water with lies. The only true item is the labour mp on the TMO but she fought for tenants, how can people believe this lying rubbish, of course there is no control over what can be put out on social media, talk about left wing conspiracies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, newjez said: That was my point. It is owned by the council, run by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation. Do you not consider councils to be part of the government? Local government. Clues in the title. But it was a labour local government , I accept there are posters who hate the current government but people need to stop frothing it's get the country nowhere what is needed now is clear and rational thought and a process to make sure we can prevent something like this happening again, in time it will come out who signed off and agreed to what , if the products meet current legislation and regulations then there is the problem the regulations need to be updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rallyman said: But it was a labour local government , I accept there are posters who hate the current government but people need to stop frothing it's get the country nowhere what is needed now is clear and rational thought and a process to make sure we can prevent something like this happening again, in time it will come out who signed off and agreed to what , if the products meet current legislation and regulations then there is the problem the regulations need to be updated. I don't think it was. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_and_Chelsea_London_Borough_Council But it is a problem of outsourcing, or privatisation of responsibility without due follow up. Doesn't matter who is in charge. They all do it. This particular building was built in the 70s so I daresay both have had their fare share of responsibility over that time. Edited June 19, 2017 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 7 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said: Erm, the government were not in the slightest involved in the referb. Personally, I think those affected were very well looked after. All were given temporary accomodation and £500 each to get them through the first days. The banks met with them and explained they could access accounts with no information and they were promised rehousing within 3 weeks. What is disgusting is Corbyns sick behaviour. I can't remember a national disaster where the leader of the opposition visits. None. He has tried - along with his thugs causing disturbance - to make political gain from this. I am not surprised as he is a terrorist and his supporters are terror supporters who should be treated accordingly, but never thought I would see even terrorists behave in a way to use this for their own ends. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40316812 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 57 minutes ago, newjez said: I don't think it was. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_and_Chelsea_London_Borough_Council But it is a problem of outsourcing, or privatisation of responsibility without due follow up. Doesn't matter who is in charge. They all do it. This particular building was built in the 70s so I daresay both have had their fare share of responsibility over that time. Agree both parties have been in government over the period since they were first built , they are all the same to a degree it's about time they all started putting the people's interest first 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Rallyman said: But it was a labour local government , I accept there are posters who hate the current government but people need to stop frothing it's get the country nowhere what is needed now is clear and rational thought and a process to make sure we can prevent something like this happening again, in time it will come out who signed off and agreed to what , if the products meet current legislation and regulations then there is the problem the regulations need to be updated. You have to understand the difference between local govt which is composed of 2 tiers and central govt, LG is the creature of central govt which dictates allocations of money and imposes conditions on the expenditure of money, so in the late 60's and 70s central govt made it almost impossible for LG to build anything other than tower blocks and it imposed standards which were very low thro ministry of housing guidelines imposed on LG. Kensington and Chelsea council has it ever been Labour in its history, it certainly wasn't in 1960's/70s and certainly isn't today. Edited June 19, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I think it's fair to say no one, central or local government, Conservative or Labour can avoid some blame for this tragedy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Who manufactured the stuff? They must have some responsibility or are they off- limits because they are not British? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briar Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 On 17/06/2017 at 16:27, Parley said: I was just thinking and I hope I'm wrong. Given the horror, revulsion and likely large death toll in this type of incident, it doesn't take a genius to think that ISIS extremists in UK must be thinking this as a new tactic in their war on the west. Given there are hundreds of highrise buildings with this flammable cladding I would be extremely worried if I lived in one. I thought that too Parly. And then today I read on a news report... can't remember which one.. that the majority of the residents were moslems... surely they wouldn't do that to their own??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briar Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 On 18/06/2017 at 15:07, simmo said: Corbyn is a very dangerous man Corbyn is a man with some very serious mental health issues as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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