Is it legal to leave a 16 year old for two nights and three days looking after her three younger siblings?

[Sulac]

So I am going through a messy separation.  I have 50/50 joint custody with my husband.  I found out tonight that the long weekend in WA when he is supposed to be having them, he is going away with his new flame leaving the 16 year old daughter in charge of her 15, 11 and 9 year old siblings (all boys)..

As you can imagine, I am not impressed.  The conversation went like this:

I said I wasn't happy about the arrangement and he said "the 16 year old is babysitting, it is my life"

I said "It is inappropriate to leave our 16 year old daughter in charge of three children when one is only 9 years old, for two days and two nights and I have an interest as I am their Mother."

He is leaving them as he is going away with a lady friend.   I think they have only been seeing each other a matter of weeks. 

I said that he should have arranged this two night stay away from home when he didn't have the children or put procedures in place (ie asked me) to look after them.

Is this legally acceptable or morally sound in WA Australia?

Any help appreciated,

 

Sulac

 

[Tulip1]

18 minutes ago, Sulac said:

So I am going through a messy separation.  I have 50/50 joint custody with my husband.  I found out tonight that the long weekend in WA when he is supposed to be having them, he is going away with his new flame leaving the 16 year old daughter in charge of her 15, 11 and 9 year old siblings (all boys)..

As you can imagine, I am not impressed.  The conversation went like this:

I said I wasn't happy about the arrangement and he said "the 16 year old is babysitting, it is my life"

I said "It is inappropriate to leave our 16 year old daughter in charge of three children when one is only 9 years old, for two days and two nights and I have an interest as I am their Mother."

He is leaving them as he is going away with a lady friend.   I think they have only been seeing each other a matter of weeks. 

I said that he should have arranged this two night stay away from home when he didn't have the children or put procedures in place (ie asked me) to look after them.

Is this legally acceptable or morally sound in WA Australia?

Any help appreciated,

 

Sulac

 

It's not ideal and I wouldn't do it but I doubt it's against the law. I do not know the law in Australia but I'd imagine it to be similar to the UK. Certainly wouldn't be seen as illegal in the uk to leave a 16 year old looking after siblings. At that age they could be legally married and having children of their own.  Neglect would have to be proven so if he left a 5 year old of course he would be in a lot of trouble but it would be hard to prove a 16 year old isn't capable of making reasonable decisions and knowing safety.  I think it's the fathers choice to make when they're with him and unless you have grave concerns then there's little you can do. Who he is going with and how long he's known them isn't relevant.  I assume you are local if something should go wrong? As I say, I wouldn't do it but that's not the same as are you allowed. I think you'll just have to let it be and keep your phone close to you for your piece of mind. You could of course offer to have them at yours if he is ok with that.  Thinking back to when I was in my teens, my parents used to visit family in a different part of the country and stay overnight regularly. We would moan we didn't want to go and once we were about your daughters age we were left. Didn't even have a house phone in them days but we were just fine. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Tulip1

[BritChickx]

I would have thought that you'd have to be 18 or over to look after minors. He sounds very irresponsible, who would leave 4 kids to swan off for the weekend when the FATHER is supposed to looking after them? It's not fair on the 16 year told to be looking after  3 children; for one evening I could understand, but not for  a whole weekend!

[ScottieGirl]

If he is going to be away why are they going to his place anyway? They won't be spending any time together. Does your daughter want to go and be in charge of her brothers?  

Pretty  sure it's not illegal to leave them at that age but the easiest way to find out is ring your local cop shop.

What is he going to do if you refuse to let them go? The law may not specify an age but I suspect a family judge would take a dim view of his complaint assuming he made one. I appreciate if it's a messy  break up he can make life difficult but it sounds odd to demand the kids go to his place when he is not there.

Edited May 30, 2017 by ScottieGirl

[Johndoe]

When a person under the age of 18 years (for example, an older brother, sister or teenage friend) cares for children, the question of negligence or liability could arise.

As a parent you may be held responsible for the carer, as well as your own children, if something goes wrong. For these reasons it is better that carers are adults (over the age of 18 years).

A carer who is still legally a child (that is, under 18 years) would not be judged against the standards of responsibility expected of adults.

If you decide to leave your children in the care of an older brother or sister or other young person, you must be sure that they are reliable and mature.

Ask yourself, ‘Could this child cope with an emergency such as a fire, an accident or a break-in?’.

If your child is left alone without a ‘carer’, he must be older than 12

[Collie]

It depends on the kids, how they get on and their level of maturity.

If you feel that uncomfortable about it, call around when they are gone and bring the kids back to yours (certainly the younger two).

If he wants to file for a contravention order, let him.  I think he will get a serve from the judge.  Whatever about 1 night, 2 nights is too much at that age espeically when you are available to mind them.

I take it that it is not amicable.  You could offer to swap weekends with him?

 

[Tulip1]

9 hours ago, ScottieGirl said:

If he is going to be away why are they going to his place anyway? They won't be spending any time together. Does your daughter want to go and be in charge of her brothers?  

Pretty  sure it's not illegal to leave them at that age but the easiest way to find out is ring your local cop shop.

What is he going to do if you refuse to let them go? The law may not specify an age but I suspect a family judge would take a dim view of his complaint assuming he made one. I appreciate if it's a messy  break up he can make life difficult but it sounds odd to demand the kids go to his place when he is not there.

 

9 hours ago, ScottieGirl said:

If he is going to be away why are they going to his place anyway? They won't be spending any time together. Does your daughter want to go and be in charge of her brothers?  

Pretty  sure it's not illegal to leave them at that age but the easiest way to find out is ring your local cop shop.

What is he going to do if you refuse to let them go? The law may not specify an age but I suspect a family judge would take a dim view of his complaint assuming he made one. I appreciate if it's a messy  break up he can make life difficult but it sounds odd to demand the kids go to his place when he is not there.

[Tulip1]

Can I ask Sulac, did you offer to have them at yours?  You say he should have put procedures in place such as ask you but I wonder if you offered. Not that you should have to but he may have thought asking you would cause issues so didn't bother and if you'd have offered then the problem may have been solved easily.  If you haven't directly offered why not try that. 

[Sulac]

Hi thanks for all your comments - much appreciated, yes I did offer but he says "it is his business and he has put a babysitter in place (our daughter)"

He is not the easiest person to liaise with.  AS their mother, I will be going around there both evenings.

Cheers

 

Sulac

 

[Tulip1]

It sounds like you are doing everything you can Sulac, I know personally how hard it can be when things aren't amicable, I have been there although thankfully many years ago now.  With technology you can text etc and it sounds like you are local so only a call away.  Good luck 

[ali]

Legally, your eldest is still a minor.  You could contact DCP and ask them what the law is and if he is breaking it (we are only guessing without real knowledge), you should inform him as such.  Could you speak to your daughter and tell her you are uncomfortable and ask her if she'd like the youngest at least to stay with you.

[Johndoe]

29 minutes ago, ali said:

Legally, your eldest is still a minor.  You could contact DCP and ask them what the law is and if he is breaking it (we are only guessing without real knowledge), you should inform him as such.  Could you speak to your daughter and tell her you are uncomfortable and ask her if she'd like the youngest at least to stay with you.

See my response above. No law broken as long as the 16 yr old is classed as "responsible". I got some grief once because I left my kids for an hour whilst I went to the shops with a 17 yr old foster kid. To all intents and purposes, this kid was like an older sister to mine and had never been any trouble................but.....................she just happened to have an unscheduled  visit from her Child Safety Officer whilst we were out. THE CSO rang us later to tell us that we could be liable, as a child in care, by virtue of the fact that she came from an abusive background, could be considered as not "reliable and mature" under the current regs.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Johndoe