K974 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, ali said: Pretty much like now, there was an announcement that the rules would change and if you hadn't arrived before July 1st. but a few months grace. Exactly there was a few months grace / some form of grandfathering that's reasonable and fair to expect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Obviously it isn't or they would have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K974 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Parley said: Obviously it isn't or they would have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K974 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 By that principle the government, never make a wrong call. Which governments Do, and it's our right to challenge it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatinabox Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, K974 said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatinabox Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Can someone please post the official link for submitting feedback to government about the new changes? It will help if everyone here affected submits their opposition to these changes especially the back dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, wombatinabox said: Can someone please post the official link for submitting feedback to government about the new changes? It will help if everyone here affected submits their opposition to these changes especially the back dating. It's here: http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/discussion-papers/citizenship-paper.pdf As much as Facebook groups and rallies might raise awareness, they will not carry as much weight as a submission on the above consultation paper. If you feel like you want to do something, this is where you should start, followed by making representations to your MP / senators. As a side note, perhaps it goes without saying but please ignore anyone who tells you you are wrong to feel disgruntled about the changes or that you don't need citizenship anyway if you have PR - no one should presume to know the particular set of circumstances you find yourself in. Edited April 25, 2017 by Sigh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatinabox Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Sigh said: It's here: http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/discussion-papers/citizenship-paper.pdf As much as Facebook groups and rallies might raise awareness, they will not carry as much weight as a submission on the above consultation paper. If you feel like you want to do something, this is where you should start, followed by making representations to your MP / senators. As a side note, perhaps it goes without saying but please ignore anyone who tells you you are wrong to feel disgruntled about the changes or that you don't need citizenship anyway if you have PR - no one should presume to know the particular set of circumstances you find yourself in. Thanks. Everyone here, you must go to that link, scroll to the bottom of the page and submit your feedback and opposition to these changes, especially the back dating/moving goal posts which is the key factor that makes these new citizenship changes wrong and unfair. Second step, google who your local MP and senator is and ask them to vote NO, tell them your reasons. You can either write to them or email them. Edited April 25, 2017 by wombatinabox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Unfortunately for you the changes will go with minimal protest. The changes aren't really aimed at people like you but Muslims from countries that are very different in culture to Australia. Any changes to the process which makes it more important to show commitment to Australia and our values will be seen as a good thing by the vast majority of voters (Australians). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working Visa Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Over the visa change scandal, Turnbull is accused of using the cheap politics of racism and crass anti-migrant sentiment to appease the conservative rump of his own party. http://transitiontopr.blogspot.com.au/2017/04/turnbull-governments-plan-to-scrap-457.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwatt99 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, Working Visa said: Over the visa change scandal, Turnbull is accused of using the cheap politics of racism and crass anti-migrant sentiment to appease the conservative rump of his own party. http://transitiontopr.blogspot.com.au/2017/04/turnbull-governments-plan-to-scrap-457.html I take this is for 457 visa holders? I wonder if things will be made more fair for those was partner visa who have been here 4 yrs but under that visa had two yrs temp and 2 yrs pr. Which would mean instead of being eligible in june it be next yr in july with new rules. Yes i know its just another yr but its the fact goal post was moved to pr holders who was about to apply which on that alone is so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderberry Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 8 hours ago, Stevwtosh said: Drop your crack pipe mate I can understand why Australia want 4 years to verify Australian values, when there are people like you entering the country 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevwtosh Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 36 minutes ago, elderberry said: I can understand why Australia want 4 years to verify Australian values, when there are people like you entering the country You are still making the same mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderberry Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Stevwtosh said: You are still making the same mistake What mistake exactly? You know what, I'm not going to lower myself to your level. If you have something to say to help others then please do, but I cannot see how personal insults is helping anyone. Edited April 25, 2017 by elderberry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Personal attacks aren't helping anyone at this time. Please stop otherwise infractions and warnings will be issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveysing Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 20 hours ago, Parley said: What is the problem ? If you are a permanent resident and committed to life in Australia it shouldn't worry you as you are already living here anyway. If citizenship is just a convenience and you are planning to leave back to the UK then really you are not committed anyway and don't deserve to be citizens. And who are you? you don't know people's situations and what their "problem" may be. You dont know how hard each individual or family have worked/ sacrificed to get here. If someone leaves to the UK it may be for reasons they can't help. Easy being judgemental when your sitting behind a keyboard. I would like someone saying that to my face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 It is a fact that many hang out for citizenship to keep their options open and then immediately bugger off back to the UK. They are not committed to Australia at all. Is this what you are planning to do also ? It would be interesting to see what would happen if dual citizenship was dropped and people had to renounce their UK citizenship whether they would still want to become Australian citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K974 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Parley said: It is a fact that many hang out for citizenship to keep their options open and then immediately bugger off back to the UK. They are not committed to Australia at all. Is this what you are planning to do also ? It would be interesting to see what would happen if dual citizenship was dropped and people had to renounce their UK citizenship whether they would still want to become Australian citizens. Some people on PR have built business and large asset base here, no one wants to be on a visa when that much is at risk And you don't build that without contributing and employing Aussies Edited April 25, 2017 by K974 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, K974 said: One people on PR have built business and large asset base here, no one wants to be on a visa when that much is at risk And you don't build that without contributing and employing Aussies As you say people have built that up on a visa already without worrying. A permanent visa will only be cancelled if you are a serious criminal, bikie etc. If you are a law abiding citizen you have no worries being here on a PR. Many people live here on PR for decades and never become citizens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix123 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Do you remember about 6 years ago an American CEO of a fairly well known accounting firm (on a 457 visa) based in Brisbane was caught evading fares on Brisbane City Trains? He had proven he had used his travel card and the correct fare had been deducted on every trip to work since the new card reader system had been put in place but one day he didn't swipe his card correctly. The guy came across a ticket inspector. It was decided to set an example of the guy. He faced a court hearing, a large fine, a criminal conviction, and subsequently cancellation of his 457 visa. He was no "bikie" - just a law obiding resident going about his lawful business. Many people live here as permanent residents for decades and never become citizens - some it works for and some it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Never heard that before. Do you have a link ? a 457 is of course not a PR visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix123 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 My thoughts on the recent changes... I am lucky my citizenship application is in and pending. Irrespective of whether I meet the old or new rules I do believe some changes to the system are necessary. To the detriment of others, there are far too many people in Australia who have abused the intent of the system and in particular possess weak English skills (how some passed the IELTS test heaven knows). You could say the system failed but I question how some individuals I have come across fully and properly pass the required English language requirement and test. Secondly, I detect a great sence of entitlement some people have to achieving PR or citizenship. The "give me my PR visa or passport now as I've been here years" attitude is wrong. If a prospective migrant does not have the skills or the language requirements to contribute to the economy fully and properly then space should be made for someone who can. What I do disagree with is changing the goal posts for those who have met the requirement fully and properly and who were to apply for citizenship in the time frame available to them at the time of gaining permanent residency. Those individuals will already have gone through English language testing and skills verification. Moving the goal post is wrong even when it may not have been the intention of a permanent resident to apply for citizenship. I believe this problem has been excaserbated by migrants whose skills and language assessments were marginal at best, who did not intergrate with society fully to enable further improvements in their English language and general work skills for which they gained permanent residency. I have met many a taxi driver, cafe manager, shop worker, and the like who had studied Community Care, Aged Care, and "pay a big fee for a Certificate 4" etc who are working in fields far removed from the skills they claimed to have in order to gain permanent residency. Many of those have English language skills which would be questionable if used in their field of "expertise". I have no doubt this is one of the reasons for tightening the rules, to put right areas where the system has failed. In regards to 457 visas, well as it says on the box, they are temporary and its has been shown time and time again that the rules change to meet with local market conditions. Those deadset on achieving PR should apply for permanent residency from the start - and if the applicant doesn't have the skill or language requirement then that's what they should work on. The system cannot be blamed when those who come to Australia temporarily intend from day one to stay permanently. I came here on a 457 visa to fill a role which the employer could not fill after 1 years executive search. I planed to stay for 2 years after which I would have been happy to move back to the UK. I stayed because my employer wanted me to stay and enjoyed the job. I have set up home here, will probably go overseas and work elsewhere, but I will certainly return as I now consider Australia home. I should point out that I only felt Australia was home after gaining PR - probably at my own peril in terms of property costs etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelj28 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 52 minutes ago, Parley said: Never heard that before. Do you have a link ? a 457 is of course not a PR visa. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/british-man-faces-deportation-over-go-card-fare-evasion-conviction-on-brisbane-citytrain/news-story/9802aa36bb6a2398cb4065254fa008ac?sv=f9aa0e1c17f1eb343043ead6f1f44c94 Regardless of whether it is a PR visa or not, s501 (good character section) applies to permanent and temporary visas alike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix123 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Isabelj28 said: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/british-man-faces-deportation-over-go-card-fare-evasion-conviction-on-brisbane-citytrain/news-story/9802aa36bb6a2398cb4065254fa008ac?sv=f9aa0e1c17f1eb343043ead6f1f44c94 Regardless of whether it is a PR visa or not, s501 (good character section) applies to permanent and temporary visas alike Thanks for finding it. This is actually another case. One I read about was US citizen working for major international firm. So many seem to find PR to be the golden ticket. It is only a indefinite visa. Indefinite if you follow the rules. Edited April 25, 2017 by Felix123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 The article doesn't say his visa was cancelled and/or he was deported. Probably supposition of what might theoretically happen as opposed to what actually did happen. If he was found guilty of a crime and a conviction recorded by a judge, that is not the doing of the Australian government anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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