jess6 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 hours ago, fensaddler said: Certainly good advice to get yourself as permanent as you can as soon as you can. I'm fine with Aus making policy decisions about migration levels intake policies etc - this is all entirely reasonable, but what really irks me is that once again this is poorly thought through, badly communicated, populist and significantly retrospective. If you're going to introduce policy change, think it through, plan for the consequences to those impacted, and communicate clearly. Particularly, don't move the goalposts on people who've made life changing decisions on the basis of your former policy - honour your moral undertakings as a country. The other thing which really troubles me is the xenophobic glee with which this has been greeted. Ironically, Australia is one of the most successful multicultural countries in the world, but you wouldn't know it given public attitudes to migration. And don't get me started on the hypocrisy of settled migrants, and the descendants of migrants, being so gleefully determined to drag up the ladder behind them - not based on any real understanding of the economic or social implications, but essentially out of prejudice (and sometimes flat out racism). You could stop migration tomorrow, and not only would Australia find it had a whole host of new problems (where's the doctor, dude?), but its existing problems that some attribute to migration - housing prices and speculation, unemployment and underemployment, transport congestion - would not go away, because the root causes aren't all about migration. It's just a convenient scapegoat that prevents pollies on both sides from having the gumption to actually tackle, and acknowledge, the real problems and their root causes. And a country which closes its doors closes its mind too... Sorry rant over... Unfortunately the whole world - not only Australia - is entering an era that is everything but open. This is very sad, irrational and led by fear. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beffers Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 That's the one bit that is confusing me Existing 457 holders in Australia, they may have to have 3 rather than 2 years for PR, but will that application for PR be subject to their job being on any list or is it irrelevant, as part of grandfathering bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 If someone has already applied for the (old) 457 and their job is still on this new STSOL, do they get the short-term (2-yr) visa or the medium-term (4-yr) one? Also, do they have to update their application with criminal record check? One of my husband's colleagues is in this situation... Cheers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ItchyFeet76 said: If someone has already applied for the (old) 457 and their job is still on this new STSOL, do they get the short-term (2-yr) visa or the medium-term (4-yr) one? Also, do they have to update their application with criminal record check? One of my husband's colleagues is in this situation... Cheers ? According to the website: http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/457-#tab-content-0 They will be given the duration dependant on what list the occupation is on. SUCKS EDIT: Again it doesn't specify if this is only if the visa was lodged after today... Edited April 19, 2017 by Samson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Another thing hat confuses me... It says new 457 applications will be stopped from March 2018...so does that mean these two new visas are only going to be available until that time? I thought th old 457 had been scrapped immediately, so it can't refer to that! Just wondering if it might mean less applications so less backlog so shorter processing time for the 186 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaR Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, ItchyFeet76 said: Another thing hat confuses me... It says new 457 applications will be stopped from March 2018...so does that mean these two new visas are only going to be available until that time? I thought th old 457 had been scrapped immediately, so it can't refer to that! Just wondering if it might mean less applications so less backlog so shorter processing time for the 186 ? I was wondering this! What's happening between now and March 2018 if a business wants to sponsor you to stay!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 You still apply for the 457 visa.. after march it will be called Temporary Skill Shortage (TSS) Visa subclass 754 (Jokes) Seems like originally Turnbull said replaced with two new visas, but now it seems it just one visa with two durations depending on what list your skill is on? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaR Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 22 minutes ago, Samson said: You still apply for the 457 visa.. after march it will be called Temporary Skill Shortage (TSS) Visa subclass 754 (Jokes) Seems like originally Turnbull said replaced with two new visas, but now it seems it just one visa with two durations depending on what list your skill is on? Ah that's helpful thank you! Presumably as most people are saying all new 457 visa applications will be processed with the new two and four year options. I'm just struggling to get my head round with any occupation on the STSOL list any way you could stay longer! Also if 1 or 2 years on a 417 working holiday visa would count towards the 3 years now needed to apply for PR. But maybe it will become clearer in a few months! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, EmmaR said: Ah that's helpful thank you! Presumably as most people are saying all new 457 visa applications will be processed with the new two and four year options. I'm just struggling to get my head round with any occupation on the STSOL list any way you could stay longer! Also if 1 or 2 years on a 417 working holiday visa would count towards the 3 years now needed to apply for PR. But maybe it will become clearer in a few months! I just can't see people coming to Australia selling home, leaving jobs moving kids what ever under the new TSS visa unless your occupation is on the MLTSSL. If I was thinking of coming over and the MA say's oh by the way this visa on its own cannot lead to permanent residency and at max you will have to leave after four years... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaR Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, Samson said: I just can't see people coming to Australia selling home, leaving jobs moving kids what ever under the new TSS visa unless your occupation is on the MLTSSL. If I was thinking of coming over and the MA say's oh by the way this visa on its own cannot lead to permanent residency and at max you will have to leave after four years... I completely agree. It was always even on a 457 visa a hard process but the option was there to consider something long term. I also can't see employers going through an even longer sponsorship application and approval to only have someone for 2 years max! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus1 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk says she hopes regional hospitals will not suffer from the Federal Government's changes to the 457 visa system. Speaking at the opening of the new Sunshine Coast University Hospital, Ms Palaszczuk said although she preferred locals to fill jobs, many regional health districts relied on foreign doctors. She accused the Federal Government of failing to fund training places for local medical students. "What we are seeing from the Federal Government is saying one thing and doing the opposite," Ms Palaszczuk said. "What we do know is that especially with health in parts of rural and regional Queensland, it is very important that we still allow some of those specialised visas for people to come and work in those communities. "If they want to scrap 457 visas without showing us the detail of the policy, they had better make it very clear why they are not giving us the training places.... Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-19/annastacia-palaszczuk-fears-hospital-shortages-from-457-changes/8453790 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess6 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, EmmaR said: I completely agree. It was always even on a 457 visa a hard process but the option was there to consider something long term. I also can't see employers going through an even longer sponsorship application and approval to only have someone for 2 years max! This is also likely to impact the local tech industry, this article is quite interesting: http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/the-100000-job-no-australian-is-qualified-to-do/news-story/400cbc76d5b8fdb0e427481b0435e7d8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Samson said: I just can't see people coming to Australia selling home, leaving jobs moving kids what ever under the new TSS visa unless your occupation is on the MLTSSL. If I was thinking of coming over and the MA say's oh by the way this visa on its own cannot lead to permanent residency and at max you will have to leave after four years... I would say, and its been the case for a while, that you would never sell up and move here 'lock stock and barrel' on a 457. We actually arrived here on a 457, but with no previous inclination to ever emigrate to OZ, husband was headhunted for a fantastic project, it was just the next career move for him that would eventually lead to others, wherever in the world. However, we fell in love with Australia and gained PR within 12 months, accelerated route on the 457 at that time (2010). We were completely ignorant of 457 rules and very naive, just came for the adventure, we were extremely lucky (although largely due to husbands skills and talent). We didn't sell the UK home, but everything happened in a whirlwind, I see now 457's seem to take quite a while to process whereas then, for us it took 3 days from applying to being granted. I have always championed 457 visa holders, it was the best thing that happened to us but I have also seen how it has changed over the years since and I would never ever recommend anyone to enter into one lightly, especially with children and especially if you see it as a permanent route, it just simply isnt that anymore. However, based on my own experiences I have great empathy for those currently on 457's, I wish you the best but for those in the UK, if you see this a permanent move then maybe the best thing to do is apply for the permanent visa and save yourself future stress and pain xxxx 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 10 hours ago, EmmaR said: Also if 1 or 2 years on a 417 working holiday visa would count towards the 3 years now needed to apply for PR. It doesn't currently so I would doubt they would change it to make it easier for getting a PR visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theveed Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 11 hours ago, Phoenix16 said: I would say, and its been the case for a while, that you would never sell up and move here 'lock stock and barrel' on a 457. We actually arrived here on a 457, but with no previous inclination to ever emigrate to OZ, husband was headhunted for a fantastic project, it was just the next career move for him that would eventually lead to others, wherever in the world. However, we fell in love with Australia and gained PR within 12 months, accelerated route on the 457 at that time (2010). We were completely ignorant of 457 rules and very naive, just came for the adventure, we were extremely lucky (although largely due to husbands skills and talent). We didn't sell the UK home, but everything happened in a whirlwind, I see now 457's seem to take quite a while to process whereas then, for us it took 3 days from applying to being granted. I have always championed 457 visa holders, it was the best thing that happened to us but I have also seen how it has changed over the years since and I would never ever recommend anyone to enter into one lightly, especially with children and especially if you see it as a permanent route, it just simply isnt that anymore. However, based on my own experiences I have great empathy for those currently on 457's, I wish you the best but for those in the UK, if you see this a permanent move then maybe the best thing to do is apply for the permanent visa and save yourself future stress and pain xxxx This summarizes most mid-career family units' plans, myself included. We haven't heard from our MA yet as to what our options are, but if my occupation only lands in the Short Term 2-year list, then 99% we'll continue our residency here in Singapore (I hold a UK passport, however) and see where it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis081 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Hi guys, Thanks for your help and all the useful informations. I was wondering if the hairdresser position has still the opportunity to get sponsor leading to pr in the regional areas. If that is still on, what would the procedure be. Until a few months ago hairdresser could apply for direct entry in Tasmania leading to pr. Has that been modified as well ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest263228 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 On 18/04/2017 at 2:59 PM, imthedave said: As I said, we are a specialist foreign company and there are no local technologies even similar. It's our internal policy to appoint the most senior person in an organisation from within the Group as it's a trusted position. We also did labour test the market and really had no suitable candidates. I may not have specific qualifications but I've been in this position for 12 years, 8 of which with this one company. According to the requirements, specific experience counts as qualification. My worry is the renewal and the age limitation now. It used to be 50. Sent using Poms in Oz mobile app As you are no doubt aware under the skills level 1 (so called managers and professionals along with the so called level 2 (so called associate professionals) are Not subject to master testing. Hence are not subject to market testing. I believe a simple search over social media will satisfy regulations as to market testing requirements as they stood. Just saying.....No idea with regards your personal situation. A far prefer a broader stroke of the brush, that may go a small way in explaining the ridiculous situation as stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Bit of an update for those in a similar position to me... I don't know how valid the source is, but gives me some hope... Marina Brizar, head of corporate and private client at immigration law firm Playfair Visa and Migration Services, said there was a grace period for people currently on 457s to apply for permanent residency. The changes to residency eligibility will not kick in until March 2018, so 457 holders have until then to submit their residency applications. In a statement, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection confirmed this. "Existing 457 visas will continue to remain in effect until they expire. As is currently the case, a 457 visa holder who wishes to remain in Australia beyond the validity of their current visa, must apply for a new visa before their current visa expires," a department spokeswoman told HuffPost Australia. "Existing 457 visa holders and applicants as at 18 April 2017 will continue to have access to existing employer sponsored pathways to permanent residence. Further details will be published on the Department's website in due course." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVELYN Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Curious said: Bit of an update for those in a similar position to me... I don't know how valid the source is, but gives me some hope... Marina Brizar, head of corporate and private client at immigration law firm Playfair Visa and Migration Services, said there was a grace period for people currently on 457s to apply for permanent residency. The changes to residency eligibility will not kick in until March 2018, so 457 holders have until then to submit their residency applications. In a statement, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection confirmed this. "Existing 457 visas will continue to remain in effect until they expire. As is currently the case, a 457 visa holder who wishes to remain in Australia beyond the validity of their current visa, must apply for a new visa before their current visa expires," a department spokeswoman told HuffPost Australia. "Existing 457 visa holders and applicants as at 18 April 2017 will continue to have access to existing employer sponsored pathways to permanent residence. Further details will be published on the Department's website in due course." I saw this as well, really hope this "Existing 457 visa holders and applicants as at 18 April 2017 will continue to have access to existing employer sponsored pathways to permanent residence. Further details will be published on the Department's website in due course." is the whole truth, not just the grace period... But anyway, those whose TRT point is after Mach 2018 (like myself) should probably start to make a plan B.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 "Existing 457 visa holders and applicants as at 18 April 2017 will continue to have access to existing employer sponsored pathways to permanent residence. Further details will be published on the Department's website in due course." This statement is hopeful, and honestly this is my only gripe with the changes. My whole plan was based on the visa conditions when I applied. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fensaddler Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Curious said: Bit of an update for those in a similar position to me... I don't know how valid the source is, but gives me some hope... Marina Brizar, head of corporate and private client at immigration law firm Playfair Visa and Migration Services, said there was a grace period for people currently on 457s to apply for permanent residency. The changes to residency eligibility will not kick in until March 2018, so 457 holders have until then to submit their residency applications. In a statement, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection confirmed this. "Existing 457 visas will continue to remain in effect until they expire. As is currently the case, a 457 visa holder who wishes to remain in Australia beyond the validity of their current visa, must apply for a new visa before their current visa expires," a department spokeswoman told HuffPost Australia. "Existing 457 visa holders and applicants as at 18 April 2017 will continue to have access to existing employer sponsored pathways to permanent residence. Further details will be published on the Department's website in due course." It's the last line that is troubling. It suggests that the Department didn't think through the implications of many of these changes, sufficient to issue advice at the time of the policy launch. I can't imagine they would have withheld this advice, so it rather suggests they a. weren't ready in time or b. are making it up as they go along. Nobody appears to have thought to think through, or spent the time on thinking through, the implications of these changes on a number of very obvious groups of people caught up in the transition between policy programs. I'm at least hopeful that this suggests a good and reasonable outcome for the many people who had hoped to transition to PR under the terms of their 457 visa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVELYN Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 An even more confusing update here... The new short-term list and mid-term list, which known as F2017L00450 is now no longer in force according DIBP website, what is this suppose to mean?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, fensaddler said: It's the last line that is troubling. It suggests that the Department didn't think through the implications of many of these changes, sufficient to issue advice at the time of the policy launch. I can't imagine they would have withheld this advice, so it rather suggests they a. weren't ready in time or b. are making it up as they go along. Nobody appears to have thought to think through, or spent the time on thinking through, the implications of these changes on a number of very obvious groups of people caught up in the transition between policy programs. I'm at least hopeful that this suggests a good and reasonable outcome for the many people who had hoped to transition to PR under the terms of their 457 visa. Reinforces the fact that all of this is politically driven from the top of Government, most probably at short notice. I'd say that suggestions a and b are reasonable assumptions. Onwards and upwards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic154 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm surprised at some of the jobs on the short term list - especially CEO/Managing Director. What CEO is going to give up his current role, up sticks and move to Aus for two years with no chance of PR if they settle down with their family? And surely leaders in their 30s/40s with experience and earning good salaries are what the country should want to attract? My previous MD was on a 457 and he was amazing, transformed the whole business, made it extremely profitable for the good of all Australian employees and the economy. Shows they are out of touch and have not thought it through. Surely this policy is worse case and they will tweak it down the track a bit more leniently - I have faith! Luckily for me I hit my 2 year point in July, and company have agreed to help with TRT so doing the paperwork now, fingers crossed there are no further changes in the meantime, but I really feel for some people who's hopes and dreams of living in Aus permanently have been shot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieH Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 An even more confusing update here... The new short-term list and mid-term list, which known as F2017L00450 is now no longer in force according DIBP website, what is this suppose to mean??“A legislative instrument or notifiable instrument (or provision) that only repeals or amends another instrument, or provides for its commencement, is itself automatically repealed after it has achieved it's effect. ”--Legislation Act 2003Sent using Poms in Oz mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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