Chortlepuss Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I remember trying to make friends, going to play groups, indoor play areas, being invited to other's houses by mums I'd recently met etc, trying to fit in and find a little life for myself to escape the misery at home, but to no avail. What I didn't really realise was that I was bringing negativity to everything I went to. When people would ask me "how are you settling in?" I'd tell them "not very well actually, I want to go home," or I'd have to lie! You can only put on a brave face and pretend everything is okay for so long. You can only defend your other half with a pack of lies for so long. To be honest, I wasn't great company for anyone - I was a foreigner in Oz in a damn miserable and difficult situation - someone to be avoided at all costs as a potential friend if they wanted someone full of fun and excitement to join their group! I know I am guilty of negativity too - but in my defence, I spent the first few years in Oz socialising, inviting people round to my house, putting myself out there. And it just got exhausting making all the effort for very little in return. I stopped wanting to drink so heavily so the after work piss ups went - and in and out of work meant that we couldn't dine out so easily too. This wouldn't have been a problem in the UK with the rounds of reciprocal BBQ's, dinner parties or even coffee catch up and chats at friends houses...... I know you should give and not expect anything in return but to be honest I'm not like that - my strongest long term relationships (many go back decades) have all relied on an element of reciprocity - including emotional reciprocity - I'm getting too old for small talk and was never that good at it anyway. I did find that I was accused of negativity when I was just being honest - So if people asked me if I preferred Oz to the UK I would say I liked them both (which I do) rather than slag the UK off (I come from a lovely part of the UK). Many British people who consider themselves settled here are very quick to rant about crap weather, bloody foreigners, scrounging benefits cheats etc etc... but this wasn't my personal experience. Personally at work I have been bullied by a corrupt manager at a not for profit (never experienced bullying in 20 years working in UK), and have met some genuinely nasty (almost evil) people in the corporate world in Brisbane. Nasty people in the UK as well of course, but the structure, process and professionalism in my UK workplace often prevented such bullies in getting a hold. Sorry to ramble on, but it may be that your 'negativity' was just honesty and an unwillingness to provide recipients with the superficial 'front' that is often expected (and respected) here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I know I am guilty of negativity too - but in my defence, I spent the first few years in Oz socialising, inviting people round to my house, putting myself out there. And it just got exhausting making all the effort for very little in return. I stopped wanting to drink so heavily so the after work piss ups went - and in and out of work meant that we couldn't dine out so easily too. This wouldn't have been a problem in the UK with the rounds of reciprocal BBQ's, dinner parties or even coffee catch up and chats at friends houses...... I know you should give and not expect anything in return but to be honest I'm not like that - my strongest long term relationships (many go back decades) have all relied on an element of reciprocity - including emotional reciprocity - I'm getting too old for small talk and was never that good at it anyway. I did find that I was accused of negativity when I was just being honest - So if people asked me if I preferred Oz to the UK I would say I liked them both (which I do) rather than slag the UK off (I come from a lovely part of the UK). Many British people who consider themselves settled here are very quick to rant about crap weather, bloody foreigners, scrounging benefits cheats etc etc... but this wasn't my personal experience. Personally at work I have been bullied by a corrupt manager at a not for profit (never experienced bullying in 20 years working in UK), and have met some genuinely nasty (almost evil) people in the corporate world in Brisbane. Nasty people in the UK as well of course, but the structure, process and professionalism in my UK workplace often prevented such bullies in getting a hold. Sorry to ramble on, but it may be that your 'negativity' was just honesty and an unwillingness to provide recipients with the superficial 'front' that is often expected (and respected) here I have known a couple of Scottish families who moved back for a few of the same reasons Chortlepuss. I also had a manager from hell at work but fortunately she was dobbed in by a few of my co-workers and that was the end of her. Thank goodness I didn't have much to do with her and couldn't believe how she bullied and manipulated members of my team. By the way she wasn't Australian. She came to Australia 5 years ago. All the years I've been here I only have three close friends who I can totally rely on if there was a crisis. Lots of acquaintances for social stuff but I'm not into barbecues etc. Like you I don't have any bad memories of the UK. Had a very happy life there in between living in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Nice to see you again bristolman. Speakeasy, I said what I said on this forum for a reason. Not to upset, but what I replied with a reasonable and genuine response. The good thing about this world, getting smaller, is that there are many countries for us to try, until we find the right fit. I don't "fit" to Australia, neither do my children or husband. He is committed for work. It is not personal, it is more, sooooo many countries, keep trying until you find what fits. Why not? Life is short. It has never been about taking others down for liking Australia. Why would I want to commit time,energy or dislike to others??? If they are happy in Australia and have found their fit, that is wonderful! I was a little confused by your post, and your post after. Why have you made a decision to make life simple??? You have been through circumstances to come out with a statement like that. If so, then that is your business and you should not be judged. And if you want to speak, you should be welcomed. This country has been responsible for some of the problems I have encountered. Not all. A lot have been circumstances outside my control. I am feeling very positive and excited, and I soooo appreciate so many things. Shouldn't we all? Especially after what happend in Paris? And yes I went through a close call in Ipswich with the floods, (hubby away) , then at Coes Creek with the cyclone and tornados, and house fires. I am not traumatised anymore (was), just more I know life can be fragile. So always go for what you want, and appreciate it. I do not completely understand your post, however you seem to be quite influenced by "the migrants" statement. You seem to have stuff to say, and I am sure many here wish to hear from you and support you, especially those that have your similar views or education on these matters. All the best. And we all know life is fragile huh, especially those who live in Europe or like to travel. RIP. What a sad time. x Not at all. If you can't stand Australia and you hate it, you should leave. And in light of current events perhaps if everyone could leave the countries they so hate, the world would be a happier place. Unfortunately everyone has their "legitimate" reasons. I certainly love this country and am realistic enough to know it suits my basic needs as much or better than many others. Many posts on this forum just convey the fact that British people only want to empathise with other British people. The exact thing they can't stand in Australians. Basic tribalism? I guess we're all not so different. All the best. Edited November 16, 2015 by speakeasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiathome Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 I don't hate "Australia". I don't think I would feel strongly about that word enough to use anywhere. I have absolutely had some nice times here. It is more I don't seem to "fit" here or get much back. But I don't hate it. It is not about taking you down because you have a good fit here. As you say to me, all the best, same back to you. That is why we are trying to change things up a bit and find a better life. Because life can be short. Chortlepuss, I have had similar. I tried soooo hard to make friends, extend invitations, took others kids after school, offered play dates. I just got nothing back. Not meant to stir, or be dishonest, just did not get any effort or friendship here. And I want that in life. So, not putting down Australia, just does not give me what I think is important. And people, friendship, support, conversation, belonging is important! Especially in the face of terroism and technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Not at all. If you can't stand Australia and you hate it, you should leave.. So the solution to not liking Australia is to abandon her family and go back to the UK? That's a bit hard-hearted! Many of the members who post here are stuck in Australia because of family - they are faced with the heart-breaking choice of living without their husband (or wife) or living in a country where they don't feel at home. Not surprisingly, most of them choose to stay with their partner and hope things improve - but when you're forced to live in a situation where you're unhappy, depression is almost inevitable and you'll feel more and more and more negative about the place, until you think you hate it. Let's have a little understanding for those in such a situation, rather than knee-jerk "go home" comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiathome Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Cheers Marisa. How r u??? All the best, kiwi. :wubclub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Cheers Marisa. How r u??? :wubclub: In a rather weird place right now, kiwi! We decided (or at least, I thought we decided) that we'd head back to Australia in May, and therefore it wasn't worth trying to find a better part of the UK to live in. We both love our flat, it's a little oasis for us - and the rent is much cheaper here than any other city we'd like to move to, so it didn't seem worth it. As soon as I had a date to look forward to, I felt much better - it's amazing how much difference it makes, isn't it, even though you're still in exactly the same place? However, we've finally found some good dance classes and social dances (it took us months because British dance schools are very backward in advertising online, the only way to find them is word of mouth which is hard if you don't know anyone!). We've also booked a dance holiday (something you can't do in Oz) and have a trip to Venice booked for March. As a result my oh is feeling much happier and I can just see him not wanting to move back to Oz when the time comes. I'm enjoying those things too - while we're doing them - but that only accounts for a few hours a week, the rest of the time I'm still stuck in bloody So'ton. If I'd thought there was any chance of us staying longer, I would've insisted on moving to another city instead of extending our lease. So now I've got this weird situation of enjoying myself some of the time and feeling in limbo at other times, it's strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Yeah welcome to PIO unfortunately. Well, that poster was 'guilty' of what some see as an unpardonable sin, wanting to leave Australia. Hence the harshness of the comments. If she was an Australian, living in Wales with a Welsh partner and two kids, then I suspect the responses would have been rather different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Edit Edited November 16, 2015 by speakeasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Geez louise. You said in your original post that you can't stand Australia and you hate It. Live where you like. World's your oyster. Hard hearted? No need to personalise everything. I haven't been able to get an answer, i'm supposed to just feel sorry for someone who has had a bit of life dealt to her. And if I don't support her obvious dislike of my country i'm not welcome here. I could go on about the british mentality and, as I see it, all its weaknesses, but I prefer to come on here to hear "pomsinoz" whinge about Australians themselves, with no sense of irony. It's like the posse of the miserable sometimes here. But I'm Aussie, so I would say that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) And if I don't support her obvious dislike of my country i'm not welcome here. No one is asking you to "support" her dislike of your country, only to be understanding of it. If you went to the UK or Spain or Italy or New Zealand and didn't like it, I would defend your right to feel that way. Every country is different. No country is perfect, including Australia, and all have disadvantages as well as advantages, bad points as well as good points. Different people will place different importance on those positives and negatives depending on their own personality and culture. And you didn't answer my question - are you saying that if she's not happy in Australia, she should break up her marriage? Seriously? Edited November 16, 2015 by Marisawright 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Got to admit, I wouldn't be to happy if someone went on about how they hated my birth country either (Scotland) but at least Kiwi is managing to make the best of a bad situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 [/b] Well, that poster was 'guilty' of what some see as an unpardonable sin, wanting to leave Australia. Hence the harshness of the comments. If she was an Australian, living in Wales with a Welsh partner and two kids, then I suspect the responses would have been rather different. Well, yours would have been for a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Yes, I have read the same diatribe on here a hundred times. I'm not offended I just don't think some assessments of Australia are REASONABLE. hence the questions I asked in response to the original post. Do I think this and do I think that? Let's not get worked up. What I thought, I expressed. It's none of my business who she goes where with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Got to admit, I wouldn't be to happy if someone went on about how they hated my birth country either (Scotland) but at least Kiwi is managing to make the best of a bad situation. I suppose for some people it's like someone criticising their son or daughter - they're allowed to complain about their shortcomings but woe betide anyone else daring to! I'd have to admit I was never too keen on Scotland even though born and bred there! Maybe that's why I'm able to stand back and not have that kind of knee-jerk reaction when someone criticises a country, because I'm not deeply attached to any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I suppose for some people it's like someone criticising their son or daughter - they're allowed to complain about their shortcomings but woe betide anyone else daring to! I'd have to admit I was never too keen on Scotland even though born and bred there! Maybe that's why I'm able to stand back and not have that kind of knee-jerk reaction when someone criticises a country, because I'm not deeply attached to any of them. Not even Australia? :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Not even Australia? :wink: I feel far more fond of Australia than the UK, but I wouldn't be devastated if I could never go back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) I've learnt a lot of things get misunderstood by emotional people. Home, family and where we belong are all emotional issues and I guess at some point In our life they all need dealing with. It rarely has much to do with the country though in my humble opinion. I mean have you seen where some people live?! Edited November 16, 2015 by speakeasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I've learnt a lot of things get misunderstood by emotional people. Home, family and where we belong are all emotional issues and I guess at some point In our life they all need dealing with. It rarely has much to do with the country though in my humble opinion. I mean have you seen where some people live?! I couldn't live in Queensland - too warm and humid for me but by the same token, people there probably wouldn't want to live in Tasmania. I didn't exactly choose to live in Sydney for well over 20 years. We lived there to start with for the job opportunities then our sons' education. We did choose to live here in Tasmania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Well, yours would have been for a starter. I wish you good fortune on your adventure as a family Grey Skies, and hope that you never find yourself in our shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 It's great to be able to choose and choose wisely. I think sometimes it's the case of deciding where it Is you want to be happy. Once that choice has been made, there's no stopping you. Can each of us be happy wherever we are? At one with the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiathome Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yes, I agree with you. And I was not being emotional, quite rational and positive. I am choosing, and choosing wisely. We have lived in Aus for 8 years, and have lived in many coutnries. After 8 years I can't wait to leave. Not down on Australia, not down on others who like living in Australia, just not right for us. And I am happy, because a choice is made. Going home, and being there for grandparents who are getting old and sick. And makinga better life for my kids back with their grandparents (before they go to the happy place) and back where I have support, friendship, hope and dreams. Yes hubby will commute, but that is fine. Because he still gets his great career that he loves, and needs, and he gets to come back to NZ and spend time with his mum, and he comes back to a happeir wife and family. Absolutely we should always go to where we are happy. And we are lucky on this side of the world, to have that choice and feel safe. Europe is facing such awafulness, we all need to count our blessings. England/Eurpoe is very close to our hearts, my hubby is from there, my daughter born there, I have friends in Euorpe. We wanted to move back. I am not sure now. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) England/Eurpoe is very close to our hearts, my hubby is from there, my daughter born there, I have friends in Euorpe. We wanted to move back. I am not sure now. :unsure: We are certainly rethinking our plans for European travel this winter. We'd planned to go to Paris next month, that's cancelled for sure. We intended to do some European rail journeys, but most of those are off the list because that's the way most of the incoming refugees are travelling - we've met people who travelled from Vienna squashed into carriages with refugees, in spite of having first class reserved seats. Italy and Spain still look like fairly safe destinations. Elsewhere, I think it would all be fairly safe outside the capital cities, because that's where the terrorists like to strike for maximum publicity and effect. Personally if I was still in Sydney, I would feel just as vulnerable. Australia is fighting ISIL as well, so we're overdue for a revenge attack IMO, and Sydney is the most likely place for it. Edited November 17, 2015 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiathome Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 I know Marisa, unfortunately the world is changed and we need to re think. You do need to be very careful and take all precautions. It is such a shame, because that is the beauty and allure of England/Europe, and now people will be worrying. Who knows where will be targeted next. Yes the Lindt seige was terrible and caught us all up, but how can you even put Paris in perspective???? My eldest (born in England) wants to go back to England in two years time for Uni. I was all for it, now not sure. As a parent I am wanting to wrap my kids in cotton wool and stop them travelling. (which I loved and did when young). NZ seems so small, safe and isolated at the moment. But do we really live a life lived in fear?? And as a parent, it is a hard choice to clip wings or not. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Who knows where will be targeted next. My eldest (born in England) wants to go back to England in two years time for Uni. I was all for it, now not sure. # Ask yourself, can you think of a terrorist attack anywhere in the Western world, outside a capital city? There may be one or two, but the vast majority take place in the capital cities. I can remember living in the UK when the IRA were active, and it was perfectly safe outside the big centres. The other concern, of course, is getting there - obviously it is frightening to see anyone get on a plane. However the reason the Russian plane was blown up is because Egyptian security was so slack. I don't think it could've happened on a plane taking off from a British or European airport - and even if it could then, I doubt it could be now, because they'll all be scrambling to close every loophole! Having said that, my oh is talking about taking a cruise when we return to Oz! Edited November 17, 2015 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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