......Aussie pride....!

[Guest241083]

........do you agree with this....?

......N

ational pride in Australia is abstract at times, distracts from important issues and has a tendency towards exclusion. Australians have become too concerned with creating proud Australians and have stopped focusing on what it actually means to be proud.

 

........Discussions of pride point to a larger, never-ending conundrum: what defines Australians’ sense of self and pride in country? The message to certain communities however – Indigenous, Muslim, immigrant, refugee, non-white – is that not only is Australian identity not available to them, but that they must also remain silent about how they choose to assert their identity.

........Currently, Aussie pride gives some Australians something to cling to that allows the very real fragmentation of our communities to be ignored. By beating our collective chests over pride and refusing to have honest debate on what constitutes it and who gets access to it, Australians operate on a never ending pattern of exclusion.

......full article....... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/04/so-90-of-us-are-proud-australians-proud-of-what-exactly

[Paul1Perth]

I think the Aussie pride message is the same no matter what community you are from. We are from the UK, not religious, white, but I can't understand why we would not feel exactly the same about coming here from anywhere. Surely that's why you come, you want to be part of something decent, not bring your problems with you?:cool:

[MARYROSE02]

I have just read the piece from The Guardian, and then the report itself and I have to say that it appears the journalist from The Guardian read into the report a lot of things which are just NOT there. I have copied the relevant page from the report about attitudes to immigration. There is a second page which I did not copy over, which says that, whilst Australians are in favour of immigration generally, they are opposed to illegal immigration, which seems to be the only 'negative' attitude (if you actually see it as negative.)

 

Australian Attitudes Towards National Identity: Citizenship, Immigration and Tradition

7

As an increasing number of immigrants make Australia their

home, public opinion has remained generally favourable toward

immigrants’ contribution to Australian society. Two thirds of

respondents disagree with the statement that immigrants

increase crime rates, 83 per cent believe immigrants are good

for the country and only 29 per cent believe immigrants take

jobs away from native-born Australians. In regard to culture, 86

per cent of Australians agree that immigrants improve Australian

society by bringing new ideas and cultures with them, although

31 per cent agree that Australian culture is undermined in the

process.

With the caveat that previous studies gave respondents

the option of ‘neither agreeing nor disagreeing’, support for

immigration has been largely stable since 1995. The percentage

of respondents who believe that immigrants increase crime rates

has fallen by five points since 1995. However, the percentage

who disagree has increased dramatically, from 35 per cent in

1995 and 42 per cent in 2003 to 67 per cent in 2015.

Similar patterns hold for questions on whether immigrants are

generally good for the economy and whether immigrants take

jobs away from people born in Australia. In 1995, 70 per cent of

respondents agreed that immigrants are good for the economy,

with only eight per cent disagreeing. Likewise, only 25 per cent

of respondents in 1995 believed that immigrants took jobs from

people born in Australia, increasing to 36 per cent in 2003 before

falling to 29 per cent in 2015. Following earlier trends from this

study, it might be expected that Australians who responded

‘neither agreed nor disagreed’ previously would be more likely to

agree with pro-immigrant statements in 2015.

“How much do you agree or disagree with the following

statements?”

Source

: ANUpoll on Australian attitudes towards national identity, 2015

When asked directly whether the number of immigrants coming

to Australia should increase, respondents are more circumspect.

Almost half – 42 per cent – believe the number should remain as

it is currently. Just more than one quarter – 26 per cent – believe

it should be increased, while 28 per cent believe it should be

reduced. The distribution of opinions on this question suggests

that governments are currently in line with public beliefs on the

rate of immigration into Australia.

[Perthbum]

Brits do not have to constantly go on and on and on about their pride like aussies do as they are comfortable in their own skin and confident in who they are.

[MARYROSE02]

Brits do not have to constantly go on and on and on about their pride like aussies do as they are comfortable in their own skin and confident in who they are.

 

So what were all those people draping Union flags around their bodies doing celebrating Kate and Williams' new baby, if not showing their pride, in much the same way that Aussies do? You and I could both think of countless events where the Brits 'wear their patriotic hearts on their sleeves' in exactly the same way as the Aussies do, which is understandable when we are both so similar.

 

Read that newspaper you hate so much - 'The Daily Fail' is it? You will no doubt find plenty of examples of the Brits doing what you claim they never do!

 

In any case, did you read the actual report or are you just 'trolling?'

[Johndoe]

Brits do not have to constantly go on and on and on about their pride like aussies do as they are comfortable in their own skin and confident in who they are.

 

Yeah oh yeah...............too bloody confident some of them, as in last night at the proms..........Rule Brittania.

[Perthbum]

So what were all those people draping Union flags around their bodies doing celebrating Kate and Williams' new baby, if not showing their pride, in much the same way that Aussies do? You and I could both think of countless events where the Brits 'wear their patriotic hearts on their sleeves' in exactly the same way as the Aussies do, which is understandable when we are both so similar.

 

Read that newspaper you hate so much - 'The Daily Fail' is it? You will no doubt find plenty of examples of the Brits doing what you claim they never do!

 

In any case, did you read the actual report or are you just 'trolling?'

Most were foreigners and a few out of 65 million aint a good show is it.....no one in stratford has even mentioned it to be honest.

Yes we show our pride now and again but do not go on and on and on all the bloody time about it, it gets very tedious.

[MARYROSE02]

Most were foreigners and a few out of 65 million aint a good show is it.....no one in stratford has even mentioned it to be honest.

Yes we show our pride now and again but do not go on and on and on all the bloody time about it, it gets very tedious.

 

We don't go on about it all the time in Australia either, so I don't know where you are getting your information. I see pictures of The Grand National and think it's just like The Melbourne Cup. Stratford-upon-Avon? I should think you get plenty of patriotic pride there with the Shakespeare connection?

 

Who says that 'most of the Royal well-wishers were foreigners?' Plenty of tourists of course. You do go to London sometimes I assume? You must see the plethora of Union flags and pictures of The Royal Family everywhere? You must see pictures of sporting fans at the various sporting events, whether it is rugby, football, cricket, tennis? Flags everywhere?

[Perthbum]

We don't go on about it all the time in Australia either, so I don't know where you are getting your information. I see pictures of The Grand National and think it's just like The Melbourne Cup. Stratford-upon-Avon? I should think you get plenty of patriotic pride there with the Shakespeare connection?

 

Who says that 'most of the Royal well-wishers were foreigners?' Plenty of tourists of course. You do go to London sometimes I assume? You must see the plethora of Union flags and pictures of The Royal Family everywhere? You must see pictures of sporting fans at the various sporting events, whether it is rugby, football, cricket, tennis? Flags everywhere?

errrrrr no :eek:

[bunbury61]

So what were all those people draping Union flags around their bodies doing celebrating Kate and Williams' new baby, if not showing their pride, in much the same way that Aussies do? You and I could both think of countless events where the Brits 'wear their patriotic hearts on their sleeves' in exactly the same way as the Aussies do, which is understandable when we are both so similar.

 

Read that newspaper you hate so much - 'The Daily Fail' is it? You will no doubt find plenty of examples of the Brits doing what you claim they never do!

 

In any case, did you read the actual report or are you just 'trolling?'

 

Ha ha ha ....what do you man " ALL " those with flags around them ...it was actually about 30 eccentrics .

Far more world wide media there than British ...

The world cannot get enough ....we saw the clips from all over the world...not so much fuss here

[bunbury61]

Yeah oh yeah...............too bloody confident some of them, as in last night at the proms..........Rule Brittania.

 

Well said the " Aussie " from erm erm blackpool ?

[MARYROSE02]

Ha ha ha ....what do you man " ALL " those with flags around them ...it was actually about 30 eccentrics .

Far more world wide media there than British ...

The world cannot get enough ....we saw the clips from all over the world...not so much fuss here

Read the "Fail's" comments on the main articles about the Royal birth which are counted in their thousands ie far more than about any other articles in the "Fail", and most of them by Pommies.

 

In any case, I direct you, like PB, to actually READ the Australian report on Australian attitudes, then compare The Guardian's conclusions which are spurious. The Guardian reporter just wrote what she would have liked the report to say to reflect her own prejudices.

[MARYROSE02]

errrrrr no :eek:

Which means you hate Test cricket so don't know who The Barmy Army are, never go to London particularly during the tourist season, and surprisingly in a way, considering you live in Stratford, have no idea about "heritage" tourism which attracts so many people to the UK. I assume you do go to see Shakespeare's plays?

[MARYROSE02]

Well said the " Aussie " from erm erm blackpool ?

I like the Last Night of the Poms (sic) precisely because it IS an e.g. of the sort of patriotism which PB both hates, and claims not to see. I suspect PB, not unlike The Guardian reporter, just sees what he wants to see and ignores the facts.

[Johndoe]

 

Well said the " Aussie " from erm erm blackpool ?

Who said I consider myself Aussie? I love Britain and the British (generally), but to be honest, I find Last night at the Proms nauseating. It sums up for me the geat divide between the North and South and in particular and the class division that exists there. I for one am certainly am not the kind of person blind to it's failings whilst at the same time being someone who derides and attempts to portray those failings as only exoisting in another country

[Perthbum]

Which means you hate Test cricket so don't know who The Barmy Army are, never go to London particularly during the tourist season, and surprisingly in a way, considering you live in Stratford, have no idea about "heritage" tourism which attracts so many people to the UK. I assume you do go to see Shakespeare's plays?

We were on about the new royal hanger on? no one was celebrating it in stratford

[Perthbum]

Who said I consider myself Aussie? I love Britain and the British (generally), but to be honest, I find Last night at the Proms nauseating. It sums up for me the geat divide between the North and South and in particular and the class division that exists there. I for one am certainly am not the kind of person blind to it's failings whilst at the same time being someone who derides and attempts to portray those failings as only exoisting in another country

Just shows how out of touch you are. What is "north" in your opinion? everyone from london to newcastle celebrates "last night of the proms" and to be honest it is celebrated more in the North than in the south as the great "british traditions" are far more celebrated with people from the north than the south.

[Johndoe]

Just shows how out of touch you are. What is "north" in your opinion? everyone from london to newcastle celebrates "last night of the proms" and to be honest it is celebrated more in the North than in the south as the great "british traditions" are far more celebrated with people from the north than the south.

 

Opinion? Are your comments "opinions" or, as you often state, "facts"? Links please if "facts"

[MARYROSE02]

We were on about the new royal hanger on? no one was celebrating it in stratford

Are we talking about the same Stratford? You know? The one with the ROYAL Shakespeare Company and the ROYAL Shakespeare Theatre. Shakespeare is synonymous with royalty, especially the Tudors. Why do think Richard III gets such a bad press?

We were on about the new royal hanger on? no one was celebrating it in stratford

[Que Sera Sera]

I cant see anything wrong with national pride wherever you are from. I don't see Australia doing it any louder than anywhere else. Yes the National Anthem gets played at School Assembly's once a week, but in my Primary School we had to sing flipping Hymns all those years ago, and it wasn't a faith based school it was just the done thing.

[flag of convenience]

Aussie Pride seems to have mellowed thankfully a bit from the Australia Day scenes of several years ago. Very crass, very loud and very over the top in too many cases. I suspect once the shrillness has dissipated the question posed could be what sort of Australia is being celebrated and what sort of future awaits?

[MARYROSE02]

"Crass, loud and over the top" are all just opinions. Sure, plenty of people drape themselves in flags and get drunk, but that does not mean they are unpatriotic or "crass, loud and over the top."

 

See what most countries do during the World Cup.

 

I wish everyone on this thread would read the report. For me, I have one more reason to hate The Guardian for totally distorting the report so they could bang their own drum about how racist Australia is (& according to the report, it isn't anything of the sort!)

 

I should start a thread on the topic "Who has the 'best' yobs: UK or OZ"

[Johndoe]

"Crass, loud and over the top" are all just opinions. Sure, plenty of people drape themselves in flags and get drunk, but that does not mean they are unpatriotic or "crass, loud and over the top."

 

See what most countries do during the World Cup.

 

I wish everyone on this thread would read the report. For me, I have one more reason to hate The Guardian for totally distorting the report so they could bang their own drum about how racist Australia is (& according to the report, it isn't anything of the sort!)

 

I should start a thread on the topic "Who has the 'best' yobs: UK or OZ"

 

Shouldn't that be "worst"? :-) Or how about Perth Scotland v's Perth Australia? Someone might just get it @rse about face ;-)

[flag of convenience]

"Crass, loud and over the top" are all just opinions. Sure, plenty of people drape themselves in flags and get drunk, but that does not mean they are unpatriotic or "crass, loud and over the top."

 

See what most countries do during the World Cup.

 

I wish everyone on this thread would read the report. For me, I have one more reason to hate The Guardian for totally distorting the report so they could bang their own drum about how racist Australia is (& according to the report, it isn't anything of the sort!)

 

I should start a thread on the topic "Who has the 'best' yobs: UK or OZ"

 

No actually the opinion of most who witnessed such behaviour including media. You are obviously unaware of how the event a couple of years unfolded. Anyway just glad the herd instinct has retreated at a more mature attitude seems to prevail at more recent Oz Day gatherings.

 

So how many world cups have you attended? I've been to one and outside of the English all other country's supporters for the main behaved well. In fact many I noted had other flags and colours among the local population when their country wasn't playing.

 

Anyhow it can't be bad you are finding things in The Guardian to agree with. There remains hope.

[MARYROSE02]

No actually the opinion of most who witnessed such behaviour including media. You are obviously unaware of how the event a couple of years unfolded. Anyway just glad the herd instinct has retreated at a more mature attitude seems to prevail at more recent Oz Day gatherings.

 

So how many world cups have you attended? I've been to one and outside of the English all other country's supporters for the main behaved well. In fact many I noted had other flags and colours among the local population when their country wasn't playing.

 

Anyhow it can't be bad you are finding things in The Guardian to agree with. There remains hope.

 

If the English are bad behaved at the World Cup, then I guess you are refuting PB's argument that Brits don't act the way the Aussies allegedly do and engage in crass displays of patriotism?

 

I'm not agreeing with The Guardian! Totally the opposite. I've copied the intro paragraph from the ANU study together with the intro paragraph from The Guardian, and highlighted the way that The Guardian has interpreted the report entirely the way THEY want to, not the way the report actually reads.

 

Australian Attitudes Towards National Identity: Citizenship, Immigration and Tradition

1

VICE-CHANCELLOR’S MESSAGE

National identity and what it means to

be ‘Australian’ regularly influence the

political and public debate in Australia, but

they are not always clearly defined. This

study, the 18th ANUpoll, explores how

Australians identify with their country and

how they view themselves as citizens.

It reveals that Australians are largely

welcoming of those born overseas, that

‘being Australian’ can describe a broad

range of characteristics and behaviours,

and that immigration is viewed positively

in regard to its consequences for

Australian cultural and economic life.

 

National pride in Australia is abstract at times, distracts from important issues and has a tendency towards exclusion. Australians have become too concerned with creating proud Australians and have stopped focusing on what it actually means to be proud.

A report on attitudes towards national identity, released last week by the Australian National University, found that 90% of Australians have pride in their country – especially for achievements in the arts, sciences unsurprisingly, sports.

As was expected, Australians are worried about immigration, job security and the economy. Interestingly, they weren’t so proud of our democracy, our social security system, our place in the world and how the most vulnerable are treated.

So we are proud of being proud but what we are proud of, perhaps we are not so sure.