......Aussie pride....!

[flag of convenience]

If the English are bad behaved at the World Cup, then I guess you are refuting PB's argument that Brits don't act the way the Aussies allegedly do and engage in crass displays of patriotism?

 

I'm not agreeing with The Guardian! Totally the opposite. I've copied the intro paragraph from the ANU study together with the intro paragraph from The Guardian, and highlighted the way that The Guardian has interpreted the report entirely the way THEY want to, not the way the report actually reads.

 

Australian Attitudes Towards National Identity: Citizenship, Immigration and Tradition

1

VICE-CHANCELLOR’S MESSAGE

National identity and what it means to

be ‘Australian’ regularly influence the

political and public debate in Australia, but

they are not always clearly defined. This

study, the 18th ANUpoll, explores how

Australians identify with their country and

how they view themselves as citizens.

It reveals that Australians are largely

welcoming of those born overseas, that

‘being Australian’ can describe a broad

range of characteristics and behaviours,

and that immigration is viewed positively

in regard to its consequences for

Australian cultural and economic life.

 

National pride in Australia is abstract at times, distracts from important issues and has a tendency towards exclusion. Australians have become too concerned with creating proud Australians and have stopped focusing on what it actually means to be proud.

A report on attitudes towards national identity, released last week by the Australian National University, found that 90% of Australians have pride in their country – especially for achievements in the arts, sciences unsurprisingly, sports.

As was expected, Australians are worried about immigration, job security and the economy. Interestingly, they weren’t so proud of our democracy, our social security system, our place in the world and how the most vulnerable are treated.

So we are proud of being proud but what we are proud of, perhaps we are not so sure.

 

I would actually take issues with those findings to an extent. I agree the mood towards immigrants changed leaps and bounds over the past decade or so, but from numerous comments both on line and off I do detect an increasingly anti migrant stance formulating. There are numerous reasons for this and the recent boom somewhat concealed growing concerns as various interests pushed for ever greater numbers coming in and competing.

[MARYROSE02]

I would actually take issues with those findings to an extent. I agree the mood towards immigrants changed leaps and bounds over the past decade or so, but from numerous comments both on line and off I do detect an increasingly anti migrant stance formulating. There are numerous reasons for this and the recent boom somewhat concealed growing concerns as various interests pushed for ever greater numbers coming in and competing.

 

The Guardian did not take issue with those findings, they just ignored them completely. Read the original report and then contrast it with The Guardian's findings.

 

If you choose to take issue with the findings, well make up an argument rather than an opinion. What is wrong with the ANU study? Sample of the population too small, not representative enough of the population? They asked the wrong questions? Some other reason? I don't know. Perhaps they are the sort of questions I should be raising. (We've covered some of them in my philosophy course in fact!).

 

The Guardian isn't disputing the figures. It is ignoring them completely. It did not even need to quote the study. It's like when someone asks a question on 'Q and A' and the panel member ignores it completely and talks about some other irrelevant aspect of the question's topic. Compare the two passages which I have highlighted.

 

The report says that 'immigration is viewed positively. The Grauniad says that 'Australians are worried about immigration.' The study does say that Australians are worried about illegal immigration but are positve about immigration generally.

[flag of convenience]

The Guardian did not take issue with those findings, they just ignored them completely. Read the original report and then contrast it with The Guardian's findings.

 

If you choose to take issue with the findings, well make up an argument rather than an opinion. What is wrong with the ANU study? Sample of the population too small, not representative enough of the population? They asked the wrong questions? Some other reason? I don't know. Perhaps they are the sort of questions I should be raising. (We've covered some of them in my philosophy course in fact!).

 

The Guardian isn't disputing the figures. It is ignoring them completely. It did not even need to quote the study. It's like when someone asks a question on 'Q and A' and the panel member ignores it completely and talks about some other irrelevant aspect of the question's topic. Compare the two passages which I have highlighted.

 

The report says that 'immigration is viewed positively. The Grauniad says that 'Australians are worried about immigration.' The study does say that Australians are worried about illegal immigration but are positve about immigration generally.

 

The crux of my comment being I dispute that Australians are happy with present levels of immigration going on various forums comments and comments in general. I don't chose to make a long winded argument from it out of something that could be argues is an increasingly apparent community concern.The norm today has been well established in not answering direct questions.

[MARYROSE02]

The crux of my comment being I dispute that Australians are happy with present levels of immigration going on various forums comments and comments in general. I don't chose to make a long winded argument from it out of something that could be argues is an increasingly apparent community concern.The norm today has been well established in not answering direct questions.

Meaning you are interested in opinion and hearsay, not facts. By all means, pick the report to shreds, or find some other reports and studies which contradict this one. I'm not actually interested in what this study concludes, so much as disputing what The Guardian concludes from it.

 

You don't agree with what this study concludes? What was wrong with the study?

 

I'm not happy with polls that reveal that Tony Abbott is unpopular, but I don't dispute the polls themselves.

[bunbury61]

Who said I consider myself Aussie? I love Britain and the British (generally), but to be honest, I find Last night at the Proms nauseating. It sums up for me the geat divide between the North and South and in particular and the class division that exists there. I for one am certainly am not the kind of person blind to it's failings whilst at the same time being someone who derides and attempts to portray those failings as only exoisting in another country

 

So no one north of Watford attends ?.....and the place is full of horrah henrys ...what a load of bollox ...its open to anyone ....its not my bag ....a bit of flag waving ,and to ne honest we have a lot to wave about ....churchill ...beatles..stones...keats ...shakespeare ...darwin to name a few

[flag of convenience]

Meaning you are interested in opinion and hearsay, not facts. By all means, pick the report to shreds, or find some other reports and studies which contradict this one. I'm not actually interested in what this study concludes, so much as disputing what The Guardian concludes from it.

 

You don't agree with what this study concludes? What was wrong with the study?

 

I'm not happy with polls that reveal that Tony Abbott is unpopular, but I don't dispute the polls themselves.

 

Probably as factual in research as any other suggestion called a report. It would be quite an achievement on your part to deny the obvious that most have woken up to what a lot of us already knew with regards to Abbot.

[MARYROSE02]

Probably as factual in research as any other suggestion called a report. It would be quite an achievement on your part to deny the obvious that most have woken up to what a lot of us already knew with regards to Abbot.

 

The left hates Tony Abbott, as they hated John Howard, irrespective of how popular they are/were in the country as a whole. I think the latest poll has Abbott and Shorten neck and neck, though the ALP are still in the lead overall, but who knows what will happen by the time of the next General Election.

 

It is possible that the study quoted in this thread is open to criticism, but not because you just don't like the results.

[MARYROSE02]

So no one north of Watford attends ?.....and the place is full of horrah henrys ...what a load of bollox ...its open to anyone ....its not my bag ....a bit of flag waving ,and to ne honest we have a lot to wave about ....churchill ...beatles..stones...keats ...shakespeare ...darwin to name a few

 

I have no complaints about that list, and I guess that Aussies, at least those with British backgrounds, can be as proud of those names as the British themselves. We have our own Shakespeare theatre company - 'Bell Shakespeare' and probably quite a few Beatles and Stones tribute bands!

 

But didn't PB say that the Brits don't go in for 'flag waving?' 'We are British, don't you know, not common colonials with no breeding or class or history!'

[Johndoe]

So no one north of Watford attends ?.....and the place is full of horrah henrys ...what a load of bollox ...its open to anyone ....its not my bag ....a bit of flag waving ,and to ne honest we have a lot to wave about ....churchill ...beatles..stones...keats ...shakespeare ...darwin to name a few

 

So you reckon Watford is the great divide? I have no idea who attends which is irrelevant, as (in context), I'm talking about the "Rule Brittania" brigade, be they from the North or the South. The flag waving hooray henries in their dinner jackets........maybe bollox to you but it's plain for anyone to see............or are they to busy looking for the Aussie flagwavers?

[flag of convenience]

The left hates Tony Abbott, as they hated John Howard, irrespective of how popular they are/were in the country as a whole. I think the latest poll has Abbott and Shorten neck and neck, though the ALP are still in the lead overall, but who knows what will happen by the time of the next General Election.

 

It is possible that the study quoted in this thread is open to criticism, but not because you just don't like the results.

 

With good reason along with Howard. Rudd not much better either. I dispute the results based on what I am hearing in the community as well as own take on events.

[flag of convenience]

So you reckon Watford is the great divide? I have no idea who attends which is irrelevant, as (in context), I'm talking about the "Rule Brittania" brigade, be they from the North or the South. The flag waving hooray henries in their dinner jackets........maybe bollox to you but it's plain for anyone to see............or are they to busy looking for the Aussie flagwavers?

 

Not a lot of cloth caps perhaps, but far from only Union flags being waved. A very entertaining event. In fact have been to its Perth equivalent on three occasions. Not a Hooray Henry in sight.

[Bobj]

I have a great deal of pride in and for this wonderful land.

Been here 52 years now because I chose to live here and that is longer than most of you bleating, whingeing one year wonders have been on Earth...So, up ya for the rent...:tongue:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[MARYROSE02]

With good reason along with Howard. Rudd not much better either. I dispute the results based on what I am hearing in the community as well as own take on events.

 

Using that same criteria, I could argue, that, in my community, I disagree with the anti-Abbott poll results, because I am hearing plenty of pro-Abbott remarks. I imagine your community is made up of mostly Abbott-haters?!

 

ANU

POLL

About the poll

ANUpoll is conducted for The Australian National University

(ANU) by the Social Research Centre, an ANU Enterprise

business. The poll is a national random sample of the adult

population, and is conducted by telephone. In this poll, 1,200

people were interviewed between 2 and 15 March 2015 with a

response rate of 23.4 per cent. The results have been weighted

to represent the national population. The poll’s margin of error is

± 2.5 per cent.

[MARYROSE02]

You know that I am a climate change denier, well, just to show you that I will post polls contrary to my beliefs, here's another ANU poll (from 2009) on public perceptions of climate change. Also, interestingly for me, loving as I do 'yes it is, no it isn't' arguments, Australians care more about the environment than the Brits!

 

[h=1]ANU Poll reveals nation worried about climate change[/h]

29 October 2008

 

 

Australians view global warming as the most serious threat to the future well-being of the world and see drought as the most immediate environmental problem for Australia, according to the findings of the third ANU Poll.

However, the poll also shows that fewer are prepared to change their behaviour to protect the environment or to support the government’s Emissions Trading Scheme.

A large majority of Australians consider themselves well informed about climate change and a small majority support the introduction of an Emissions Trading Scheme.

According to Professor Ian McAllister, who leads ANU Poll, despite the scientific complexities and debates surrounding the whole topic of global warming, a large majority of the public — 77 per cent — feel that they understand the issue ‘very well’ or ‘fairly well’.

“Only about one in four feel that they are not well informed,” he said. “When you look at international comparisons, Australians see global warming as a bigger threat to their way of life than does the US public. In a 2008 survey, 40 per cent of US respondents said that global warming posed a ‘serious threat’, compared to 56 per cent of Australians. But levels of support for an emissions trading scheme are similar to the US, with around 54 percent of Australians supporting the scheme and 34 percent opposing it.

“However, when we turned to the issue of nuclear power, Australians are less supportive of it than their US counterparts, a majority of whom support it. Around half of the Australian public opposes the use of nuclear energy. And over the last two decades, public support for nuclear energy has declined, while support for uranium mining has remained relatively stable.”

The poll, which differs from other opinion polls by placing public opinion in a broad policy context and by benchmarking Australia against international opinion, also found that Australians have made more environmental behaviour changes than their counterparts in the United Kingdom.

Professor Ian McAllister said the survey found that the vast majority of Australians have changed their behaviour in small ways to help the environment.

“Only two of the thousand people interviewed for the poll said they didn’t participate in at least one environmental behaviour, such as recycling, conserving water or using energy saving light bulbs. But only 31 percent use public transport. This perhaps isn’t surprising since it is much easier to make small incremental changes,” Professor McAllister said. “Australians have a much higher degree of environmental behaviour that their British counterparts, where according to a 2002 British survey only 58 per cent recycle household rubbish.”

ANU Poll also found that Australians rate the economy and the environment as the two dominant problems facing the country, with the economy slightly ahead. At the time of the first ANU Poll in March 2008, the environment was ranked first, followed by the economy.

This is the third ANU Poll. ANU Poll is a survey of Australian public opinion of matters on matters of national importance. ANU Poll differs from other opinion polls by benchmarking Australia against international opinion.

[Johndoe]

Not a lot of cloth caps perhaps, but far from only Union flags being waved. A very entertaining event. In fact have been to its Perth equivalent on three occasions. Not a Hooray Henry in sight.

 

Perth Scotlans or Perth Australia?

[flag of convenience]

Using that same criteria, I could argue, that, in my community, I disagree with the anti-Abbott poll results, because I am hearing plenty of pro-Abbott remarks. I imagine your community is made up of mostly Abbott-haters?!

 

ANU

POLL

About the poll

ANUpoll is conducted for The Australian National University

(ANU) by the Social Research Centre, an ANU Enterprise

business. The poll is a national random sample of the adult

population, and is conducted by telephone. In this poll, 1,200

people were interviewed between 2 and 15 March 2015 with a

response rate of 23.4 per cent. The results have been weighted

to represent the national population. The poll’s margin of error is

± 2.5 per cent.

 

Well having worked a while on ground level as well as compiling the stats from so called polls in UK, I have every reason to be very cautious of the alleged findings. My research is at least equal to the market research company I had dealings with.

[flag of convenience]

Perth Scotlans or Perth Australia?

 

Why would it be Perth, Scotland?

[Johndoe]

Why would it be Perth, Scotland?

 

Why not? Some other folk get their wires crossed

[flag of convenience]

Why not? Some other folk get their wires crossed

 

Not this one and certainly not after a previous post mentioning attending three to date and living in Perth, WA as well. Just to underline, WA in this instance does not stand for Washington State either. Rather the black swan one in Western Australia.

[bristolman]

We were on about the new royal hanger on? no one was celebrating it in stratford

 

I would imagine just as many would be celebrating the arrival of the new princess in Stratford as they were everywhere else. In fact with the many Royal ties I imagine there was more celebration there. Very odd to say no one was celebrating in Stratford, you don't know them all do you ?

[MARYROSE02]

I would imagine just as many would be celebrating the arrival of the new princess in Stratford as they were everywhere else. In fact with the many Royal ties I imagine there was more celebration there. Very odd to say no one was celebrating in Stratford, you don't know them all do you ?

PB is the troll who sits under the three billygoats gruff bridge

[bunbury61]

So you reckon Watford is the great divide? I have no idea who attends which is irrelevant, as (in context), I'm talking about the "Rule Brittania" brigade, be they from the North or the South. The flag waving hooray henries in their dinner jackets........maybe bollox to you but it's plain for anyone to see............or are they to busy looking for the Aussie flagwavers?

 

Oh dear you have been away awhile ....the north - south divide ,mythical or not is called the "Watford gap " .....the last night of the proms is a ticket event ...so if you are a bricklayer from Leeds ,you to can get a ticket ....