Is the 'Pacific Solution' unravelling?

[wakeboard1980]

I was only trying to understand if he actually does anything about his objections to the current situation or weather he just jumps up and down on here.

 

Harpo is very passionate about this subject, as, a great many others are, and he puts his money where his mouth is, and gets involved in stuff. We both despair at what the current government are doing here. Surely Australia is better than this?

Then surely he must realise the other side will have passionate people as well. the way some carry on though does not help their cause with all the swearing and insults being thrown around, ie suggesting people are less intelligent. Anyway that's enough said by me I will just sit back and watch with a smile on my face.

[Guest]

I can’t decide whether this post is truly genuine or written for effect. Either way, to so readily and easily dismiss the pain and suffering of already vulnerable people, including children – would it be as easy to adopt such an apparent indifference if the discussion was face to face with those living in these centres, rather than an abstract political argument on a forum? Some level of compassion for the most vulnerable amongst us and a desire to support and protect their human rights, is surely part and parcel of living in a civilised society.

 

None of us can influence or take credit for the country of our birth but if we are lucky enough to be born in a first world democratic country, perhaps we can afford to show a little compassion towards those dealing with fear and persecution as a result of fate dealing them a different hand. A clean safe place to sleep, decent food, appropriate clothing and access to medical support if necessary – pretty basic stuff and, with the exception of clothing, what most of us would expect for any pet never mind another human being.

 

And no, I don't think all asylum seekers are genuine and should be allowed to stay - just the 80 percent the government believe are genuine, according to their own statistics. Tx

Terrific post tea4too, it all comes down to human decency in the end, and the desire to see that extended to everyone. As you say, a small proportion of those seeking asylum are likely to be ineligible, but the vast majority are people desperately seeking safe haven. Perhaps Australia should withdraw from United Nations agreements regarding refugees if it resents having to accommodate those who arrive by boat seeking asylum?

[Guest]

Then surely he must realise the other side will have passionate people as well. the way some carry on though does not help their cause with all the swearing and insults being thrown around, ie suggesting people are less intelligent. Anyway that's enough said by me I will just sit back and watch with a smile on my face.

 

Oh, we're aware of just how strongly the other side feel about this believe me. :smile:

[Wellers and Whitehead]

[quote name=Wellers

 

Lots not that hard to get really. The 3 things I suggested are it that hard to do to support the cause. There are also plenty of way to support child abuse victims without training to become a social worker.

 

Oh jeez. . Come on..you are hard work. .

[wakeboard1980]

 

Oh jeez. . Come on..you are hard work. .

Likewise

[MARYROSE02]

I was only trying to understand if he actually does anything about his objections to the current situation or weather he just jumps up and down on here.

 

Harpo is very passionate about this subject, as, a great many others are, and he puts his money where his mouth is, and gets involved in stuff. We both despair at what the current government are doing here. Surely Australia is better than this?

 

He might be passionate about this, but his silence about the deaths of Australians in the pink batts scandal is deafening, being far worse than anything in the detention camps, but then again it was 100 per cent due to ALP incompetence. Likewise, the death by drowning of hundreds of 'boat people', again due to the incompetence of the ALP govt in dismantling the previous government's proven policies.

 

And I don't want Australia to be 'better than this'. (Unless you are referring to the pink batts debacle? Definitely never again should our own citizens lose their lives due to the government's incompetence.

[flag of convenience]

 

He might be passionate about this, but his silence about the deaths of Australians in the pink batts scandal is deafening, being far worse than anything in the detention camps, but then again it was 100 per cent due to ALP incompetence. Likewise, the death by drowning of hundreds of 'boat people', again due to the incompetence of the ALP govt in dismantling the previous government's proven policies.

 

And I don't want Australia to be 'better than this'. (Unless you are referring to the pink batts debacle? Definitely never again should our own citizens lose their lives due to the government's incompetence.

 

Well others certainly expect better from their country and government than you apparently do. The issue you bring up is of another matter and in no way lessons the issue under discussion. Namely the unravelling of the quite dreadful Pacific Solution.

[MARYROSE02]

 

Well others certainly expect better from their country and government than you apparently do. The issue you bring up is of another matter and in no way lessons the issue under discussion. Namely the unravelling of the quite dreadful Pacific Solution.

 

But I am happy with the 'Pacific Solution' and I am certainly happy that the boats have virtually stopped since Tony Abbott came to power.

 

Did the man who contracted septacemea (sp?) following a cut to his foot receive appropriate medical treatment? I don't know, and we will know more following the inquest. Even if he did not receive appropriate treatment, that does not mean that the Government has a policy to deliberately ill-treat detainees.

[Harpodom]

Well, they won't come here by boat under the Liberal govt, but under the ALP where everybody was accepted, naturally they would take the easiest way.

 

And how do you KNOW they are genuine when they have no papers?

 

Bottom line, anyway, is I DON"T CARE what happens to them. I voted for Abbott because he said he would stop the boats and he has. The official refugee program is still in place as it should be, but illegals are treated the way they should be - as criminals.

 

PS It's time for you to rant about Rudd's pink batt fiasco. Forget about asylum seekers. You've given them a year. Now give pink batts a year.

 

AT LAST! HONESTY from you! :notworthy:

[Harpodom]

 

But I am happy with the 'Pacific Solution' and I am certainly happy that the boats have virtually stopped since Tony Abbott came to power.

 

Did the man who contracted septacemea (sp?) following a cut to his foot receive appropriate medical treatment? I don't know, and we will know more following the inquest. Even if he did not receive appropriate treatment, that does not mean that the Government has a policy to deliberately ill-treat detainees.

But you 'don't care what happens to them' by your own admission, so why should the outcome of the inquest matter to you at all?

[Harpodom]

And Mary, I've reported you for the repeated pink batts comments.

 

As flag said, its a matter for another thread, feel free to slag me off on that for my 'deafening silence', and I'll happily ignore you on a separate thread

 

 

Your obsession with pink batts is beyond tedious

[Harpodom]

 

Oh, we're aware of just how strongly the other side feel about this believe me. :smile:

to be honest I don't feel much 'passion' from the other side, do you?

 

What I feel is a lot of apathy and cynicism, a fair amount of smugness and sometimes cruelty. Not many positive human attributes.

 

You also get the 'but what about looking after homeless Aussies instead?' bull$hit argument, creating a false either/or situation, whilst also taking the populist patriot line.

 

If 'stopping the drownings' was the primary objective, then we wouldn't have these godforsaken places where people are 'disappeared' to be conveniently forgotten.

[MARYROSE02]

And Mary, I've reported you for the repeated pink batts comments.

 

As flag said, its a matter for another thread, feel free to slag me off on that for my 'deafening silence', and I'll happily ignore you on a separate thread

 

 

Your obsession with pink batts is beyond tedious

 

But you are obsessed with the beilef that the Australian government is running an Auschwitz for asylum seekers. It is all you go on about, ever since Tony Abbott was elected. You don't care about the lives that have been saved with no more unseaworthy boats making dangerous voyages to Australia. You don't care about the risks to Australian sailors who had to rescue so many of the boats. You don't care about the fact that many of those sailors may well be suffering post-traumatic stress from the constant, and unnecessary dangers they faced. You don't care about the Australians who lost their lives in the, again wholly unnecssary pink batts disaster, nor do you care about the stress the families of the men who lost their lives are probably suffering. Whenever an allegation is made about ill-treatment in detention camps, you accept is as undeniable fact. In your view, the Australian Government and all the people involved with asylum seekers, whether rescuing them from the seas around Australia, or working in the detention camps are worse than the SS. And you want anybody who says they are an asylum seeker to be treated as such, and you want unlimited funds spent looking after them. Never mind if these funds are diverted from much needed services for Australians.

 

You know, I've never reported you, nor even thought of doing it! Come to think of it, I've never reported ANYBODY, and again, never even thought of doing so!

 

Why not create some threads with positive things to say about Australia. I don't think I've seen any from you. Take a leaf out of PB's book, or mine. We see the sun coming out of the clouds sometimes.

[Harpodom]

But you are obsessed with the beilef that the Australian government is running an Auschwitz for asylum seekers. It is all you go on about, ever since Tony Abbott was elected. You don't care about the lives that have been saved with no more unseaworthy boats making dangerous voyages to Australia. You don't care about the risks to Australian sailors who had to rescue so many of the boats. You don't care about the fact that many of those sailors may well be suffering post-traumatic stress from the constant, and unnecessary dangers they faced. You don't care about the Australians who lost their lives in the, again wholly unnecssary pink batts disaster, nor do you care about the stress the families of the men who lost their lives are probably suffering. Whenever an allegation is made about ill-treatment in detention camps, you accept is as undeniable fact. In your view, the Australian Government and all the people involved with asylum seekers, whether rescuing them from the seas around Australia, or working in the detention camps are worse than the SS. And you want anybody who says they are an asylum seeker to be treated as such, and you want unlimited funds spent looking after them. Never mind if these funds are diverted from much needed services for Australians.

 

You know, I've never reported you, nor even thought of doing it! Come to think of it, I've never reported ANYBODY, and again, never even thought of doing so!

 

Why not create some threads with positive things to say about Australia. I don't think I've seen any from you. Take a leaf out of PB's book, or mine. We see the sun coming out of the clouds sometimes.

 

More deflection/distraction techniques from you, its time you tried another method of establishing a logical argument.

 

Meanwhile.......

 

 

[h=1]New UN human rights chief attacks Australia over asylum seeker rights 'violations'[/h]DateSeptember 8, 2014 - 7:03AM

 

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Australia's treatment of asylum seekers at facilities like Manus Island has been condemned by the United Nations.

 

 

 

• Asylum seeker death: Family's organ donation wish unable to be granted

 

Exclusive

Australia has been accused of a "chain of human rights violations" in its treatment of asylum seekers by the incoming United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Prince Zeid Ra'ad Al-Hussein.

In his maiden address to the UN Human Rights Council, the Jordanian prince has also challenged plans to resettle those found to be refugees in "countries that are not adequately equipped".

In a copy of the address, to be delivered early on Tuesday morning, AEST, Prince Zeid castigates Australia over the policy of offshore processing of asylum seekers and the interception and turning back of vessels at sea.

He says the policy has led to human rights violations including "arbitrary detention and possible torture following return to home countries".

A career diplomat, Prince Zeid took over the role from Navi Pillay of South Africa last month. His rebuke of Australia comes in a speech that begins by addressing escalating human rights violations in Syria and Iraq.

When he turns his attention to asylum seekers, Prince Zeid also expresses alarm at reports of children being detained in the United States and in Cyprus.

"Human rights are not reserved for citizens only, or for people with visas," he declares in the speech, obtained by Fairfax Media. "They are the inalienable rights of every individual, regardless of his or her location and migration status.

"A tendency to promote law enforcement and security paradigms at the expense of human rights frameworks dehumanises irregular migrants, enabling a climate of violence against them and further depriving them of the full protection of the law."

Prince Zeid also addresses the situation in Sri Lanka, urging officials to co-operate with a inquiry by the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.

"I am alarmed at threats currently being levelled against the human rights community in Sri Lanka, as well as prospective victims and witnesses," he says. "I also deplore recent incitement and violence against the country's Muslim and Christian minorities."

Australia's Human Rights Law Centre seized on the address, saying it is "embarrassing". Australia's inhumane policies were listed in the speech along side global human rights challenges like the humanitarian crises in Syria, Iraq and the Ukraine and the spread of Ebola in West Africa.

"In his very first speech to the United Nations, addressing the most serious human rights issues in the world right now, the new High Commissioner devoted an entire paragraph to condemning Australia's treatment of asylum seekers," said the centre's director of legal advocacy, Daniel Webb.

Mr Webb said the speech demonstrated the seriousness with which Australia's "flagrant breaches of international law" were regarded on the world stage.

He said the policies of the current and the former government had clearly damaged Australia's international reputation – at a time when there are more displaced people in the world than since the end of the Second World War.

 

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/new-un-human-rights-chief-attacks-australia-over-asylum-seeker-rights-violations-20140907-10dlkx.html#ixzz3Cfq2Iuqu

[MARYROSE02]

I'm not interested in what the UN thinks about Australia. In my opinion they are a discredited organisation paid for largely by the 'Great Satan' and his 'little brothers', but dominated by undemocratic regimes - imagine the likes of Zimbabwe or North Korea being able to criticise us for abuse of human rights.

 

I see from your article that a Jordanian is to be the next UN Commissioner for Human Rights. I suppose Jordan may be good by Middle Eastern standards, but still not somewhere I would care to live.

[Harpodom]

As ever, you're completely inconsistent with your logic:

 

"I'm not interested in what the UN thinks about Australia"

 

"they are a discredited organisation paid for largely by the 'Great Satan' and his 'little brothers', but dominated by undemocratic regimes'

 

And yet, you're the first to sing Tony/Juliar's praises when they're [in your eyes] kicking arse at the UN.

 

You can't have it both ways. Actually, you think you can.

 

Perhaps you should be advocating Australia resigning from its seat at the UN security council?

 

I'm not interested in what the UN thinks about Australia. In my opinion they are a discredited organisation paid for largely by the 'Great Satan' and his 'little brothers', but dominated by undemocratic regimes - imagine the likes of Zimbabwe or North Korea being able to criticise us for abuse of human rights.

 

I see from your article that a Jordanian is to be the next UN Commissioner for Human Rights. I suppose Jordan may be good by Middle Eastern standards, but still not somewhere I would care to live.

[Rallyman]

If a Jordanian is to be the next in commissioner then why don't the asylum seekers from that area go there as it must be a safe country to goto ,why risk getting on a dodgy boat when you could cross land to get there from any of the Arab nation's

[MARYROSE02]

If a Jordanian is to be the next in commissioner then why don't the asylum seekers from that area go there as it must be a safe country to goto ,why risk getting on a dodgy boat when you could cross land to get there from any of the Arab nation's

 

Those Indians could have hopped across what is virtually The English Channel between India and Sri Lanka, but naturally, it made far more sense to cross 'The Atlantic' to Australia!

[MARYROSE02]

As ever, you're completely inconsistent with your logic:

 

"I'm not interested in what the UN thinks about Australia"

 

"they are a discredited organisation paid for largely by the 'Great Satan' and his 'little brothers', but dominated by undemocratic regimes'

 

And yet, you're the first to sing Tony/Juliar's praises when they're [in your eyes] kicking arse at the UN.

 

You can't have it both ways. Actually, you think you can.

 

Perhaps you should be advocating Australia resigning from its seat at the UN security council?

 

When do the Russians or Chinese ever do anything constructive on the UN Security Council? Just try and pass a motion condemning North Korea.

[Rallyman]

I was looking at a world map a few weeks back and thought the same ,obviously no benefits in Jordan or would they not be welcome there

[Guest241083]

to be honest I don't feel much 'passion' from the other side, do you?

 

What I feel is a lot of apathy and cynicism, a fair amount of smugness and sometimes cruelty. Not many positive human attributes.

 

You also get the 'but what about looking after homeless Aussies instead?' bull$hit argument, creating a false either/or situation, whilst also taking the populist patriot line.

 

If 'stopping the drownings' was the primary objective, then we wouldn't have these godforsaken places where people are 'disappeared' to be conveniently forgotten.

 

 

 

........for many.....family....our own people remain a top priority......

........but we need to accept we are part of a larger society .....!

........not just asylum seekers......but many that are socially marginalised.....

........and the only way we can have a respect for diversity.......

........is to have some empathy for those in these positions....

........Australia has built it's reputation on cultural diversity.....

.........multi cultural acceptance......

.........a melting pot of people's.......

..........perhaps it's time more of us.....practiced.....what we claim to be.....

..........a welcoming diverse and accepting country......

..........and that should include all people......who have a need/want to live here....

...........of course there has to be rules criteria met....!

...........but the need for safety should be exempt.......

...........would you close your door on a person in need...?

...........fearing for their life...?

...........when we have done as much as individually possible to help those we can.....

............should we then refuse those who ask only for sanctuary.......

............I often think we should walk a mile in the shoes of those we say ..no....I don't want to help you.....!

[Rallyman]

No easy answers to this problem, there must be some system in place and deterrent otherwise you end up in the situation we had under the last government

Or as some would just open the flood gates , which Australia can't afford to happen or you will end up with the same situation as in Calais

[MARYROSE02]

But you 'don't care what happens to them' by your own admission, so why should the outcome of the inquest matter to you at all?

 

I want find out the truth, however unwelcome it maybe to my own views!

 

I'm not one to 'blow my own trumpet,' but as you have been petty enough to report me, I'll take the opportunity to point out that I spend a few minutes most days on PIO, going through the "Unanswered Threads' to see if I've missed anything anything interesting, and to 're-juvenate' any threads that nobody has replied to. I feel good too, when I succeed, and other members start replying.

 

And I also like to start threads about 'feel good' topics, about my life in Australia. Yes, like some of us, I enjoy getting into the generally pointless 'yes it is, no it isn't' rants that 'ping-pong' eternally on PIO. I can also appreciate the irony that 'feel good' topics are, whilst often read, are rarely commented upon, but then that is what happens in a soap opera. Too much 'nice' means low ratings.

 

I love the irony of those climate activists going to Antarctica to prove that global warming is real, then getting stuck in the ice. Yes, I like it doubly because of my political views, but I can also see the genuine humour in the situation, unlike you, and the ABC.

 

Why don't you 'lighten up' a bit, and see the funny side. Say something nice about Tony Abbott!

[Guest241083]

No easy answers to this problem, there must be some system in place and deterrent otherwise you end up in the situation we had under the last government

Or as some would just open the flood gates , which Australia can't afford to happen or you will end up with the same situation as in Calais

 

 

.......your right in that the answer is not easy.....

......but this doesn't excuse the apathy......or antagonistic attitude of some...

......minorities have often been treated with fear distrust....

......often through lack of understanding......but theses people have fled persecution.....

.......a send them back attitude smacks of selfish and inhumane intolerance for a human being.....

.......who decides what level of violence is safe enough to return to...?

.......what must they have suffered to pass the test......?

........perhaps if more of us showed an interest.......cared what happened....

.........governments would be forced to find a better solution to the one they have know....IMO of course....tink x

[Harpodom]

When do the Russians or Chinese ever do anything constructive on the UN Security Council? Just try and pass a motion condemning North Korea.

Deflection/distraction. Again.