Is the 'Pacific Solution' unravelling?

[Harpodom]

But Bill Shorten is 100 percent behind Tony Abbott on this issue. Why isn't he doing what the Leader of the Opposition usually does ie find fault with the Goverment of the day?

Easy, both men are beholden to what they perceive to be vote winning policies. Hence Shorten's *TOTAL* silence on Operation Sovereign Borders. Shorten (Mr "I haven't read what the Prime Minister said but I agree 100%) never struck me as a man with either integrity or a backbone.

 

He should be pushing for a parliamentary debate to discuss committing to this latest war.

[Harpodom]

So Menzies was wrong to take Australia into war with Germany as soon as Britain declared war?

Your implication being that Australia should blindly follow Britain and/or the US into war?

 

That didn't go so well with Vietnam did it?

[MARYROSE02]

It could be said Pig Iron Bob was wrong to sell iron to the Japanese pre WW2 when they were inflicting pain on the Chinese. I note USA did not answer the call to arms and stand shoulder to shoulder with Britain, The Empire and France on the declaration of war. Afraid Australia has always been a bit of a follower.

 

Contrary to leftie prejudices, the USA has not always been "the world's policeman' and before WW2 always tried to remain neutral. After WW1 the US dismantled most of it's armed forces. During both World Wars the US initially tried to stay neutral.

[MARYROSE02]

Your implication being that Australia should blindly follow Britain and/or the US into war?

 

That didn't go so well with Vietnam did it?

 

Of course you are judging Australia's pre World War outlook by today's standards. Particularly before WW1 Australia was much more "British" in its outlook natural enough when it had only been an independent country for barely more than a decade and much of both the population and the armed forces were British born.

 

And why is neutrality the safe position for Australia given it's location and size of population? Why would Germany or Japan have respected. Australian neutrality? Why would any likely belligerent respect our neutrality now?

 

It may have been wrong for Australia to go"all the way with LBJ" but it is always easy to rewrite history when you have hindsight.

[MARYROSE02]

Easy, both men are beholden to what they perceive to be vote winning policies. Hence Shorten's *TOTAL* silence on Operation Sovereign Borders. Shorten (Mr "I haven't read what the Prime Minister said but I agree 100%) never struck me as a man with either integrity or a backbone.

 

He should be pushing for a parliamentary debate to discuss committing to this latest war.

 

Usually in time of war or national emergency the Opposition sides with the Govt or even forms a coalition govt.

 

I expect you will be condemning Milliband, Darling and Brown for their lack of backbone supporting Cameron's position on Scotland?

[MARYROSE02]

There have been critiques from the other side but not a turn around of complete policy. No Labor leader is likely to attempt such a move since the issue is so politicised.

 

It we not matter which party is in power in time of war.

[flag of convenience]

Contrary to leftie prejudices, the USA has not always been "the world's policeman' and before WW2 always tried to remain neutral. After WW1 the US dismantled most of it's armed forces. During both World Wars the US initially tried to stay neutral.

 

In actual fact USA was for a time strongly in favour of decolonisation. Contrary to righty prejudices. Would be regarded as rather left these days. Take a look at the US response to the Anglo/Franco joint invasion of the Suez Zone in 1956.

 

USA delighted to be making money from the war though. Hardly a neutral stance supplying war materials besides food to Britain.

[flag of convenience]

It we not matter which party is in power in time of war.

 

Except with all the excitement induced it has been forgotten we are not at war.

[Harpodom]

Except with all the excitement induced it has been forgotten we are not at war.

:laugh::notworthy:

[MARYROSE02]

Except with all the excitement induced it has been forgotten we are not at war.

 

Try telling that to the families of the hostages killed by Isis.

[MARYROSE02]

In actual fact USA was for a time strongly in favour of decolonisation. Contrary to righty prejudices. Would be regarded as rather left these days. Take a look at the US response to the Anglo/Franco joint invasion of the Suez Zone in 1956.

 

USA delighted to be making money from the war though. Hardly a neutral stance supplying war materials besides food to Britain.

 

Did the US sell food and munitions to Germany at the same time then?

[flag of convenience]

Try telling that to the families of the hostages killed by Isis.

 

Perhaps they would already be pessimistic just how western intervention in the way of bombing from aircraft can in any way liberate them from their grief. Especially if reflecting on previous interventions and the gung ho , in out approach that created such instability to the region, they may well be entitled to wonder just how their lot may be improved.

[flag of convenience]

Perhaps they would already be pessimistic just how western intervention in the way of bombing from aircraft can in any way liberate them from their grief. Especially if reflecting on previous interventions and the gung ho , in out approach that created such instability to the region, they may well be entitled to wonder just how their lot may be improved.

 

Clearly as you stated wrongly, the USA was hardly neutral but very profit driven. The German influence being as strong as it was at the time, many indeed did not want war.

[flag of convenience]

Try telling that to the families of the hostages killed by Isis.

 

I'm sure the Syrians and others escaping in small numbers by boat to Australia, being detained indefinitely in Australian and Off shore detention centres, under threat of deportation, would fully like an explanation by your good self as to why they find themselves in such a position.

[MARYROSE02]

Why is it always our fault? Our fault if we intervene. Our fault if we don't intervene. Our fault if their economies are useless. Our fault if they have inhumane. And corrupt governments. Our fault if we let dictators commit genocide and our fault if we invade and remove said. Dictator. If the result appears to be worse. If we make one mistake then that makes all our policies wrong. It was wrong to try to appease Hitler but also wrong to engage ìnan arms race with him and wrong to declare war on him.

 

When do these countries get to take responsibility for their actions instead of always being able to blame us? They are all human beings. They are not centuries behind us. They were riven by religious and tribal amenities long before we tried to colonise them. And why aren't we allowed to blame our own problems on our own histories of suffering invasion and colonisation?

[MARYROSE02]

I'm sure the Syrians and others escaping in small numbers by boat to Australia, being detained indefinitely in Australian and Off shore detention centres, under threat of deportation, would fully like an explanation by your good self as to why they find themselves in such a position.

we are not hacking their heads off and putting It on YouTube and Australia DOES

take in refugees every year. But if u are wondering whether I care more for British and Americans?Yes I do. I am not ashamed of that. I am not a world citizen.

[Harpodom]

we are not hacking their heads off and putting It on YouTube and Australia DOES

take in refugees every year. But if u are wondering whether I care more for British and Americans?Yes I do. I am not ashamed of that. I am not a world citizen.

 

Why is that? Isn't every human life equal?

[Guest]

Why is that? Isn't every human life equal?

Harpo don't be naive. For some it's a case of "the dead in order of importance";

 

1. Austrayans. Battlers, every single one of them. Bloody legends. Awesome, etc.

2. New Zealanders (preferably ones who were living in Straya at the time)

3. Poms (but only the ones who love Straya and have passed the "You'd never catch me going back to the UK" test)

4. Americans (grudgingly, but they did give us that Black chick from 'X-Factor' who blows smoke up our @rses every five minutes so they're ok)

5. Croatians, Italians and Greeks. Well, they're practically Strayans anyway.

6. Random other Europeans. Whatever. But, if they once holidayed in Straya and said nice things about us, then, ok.

7. Asylum-seekers. Trying to cheat their way into our grate country and rob us of our right to eat overcooked pork sausages on a Saturday morning outside our local Bunnings. Bast$rds.

[Harpodom]

[/b]

Harpo don't be naive. For some it's a case of "the dead in order of importance";

1. Austrayans. Battlers, every single one of them. Bloody legends. Awesome, etc.

2. New Zealanders (preferably ones who were living in Straya at the time)

3. Poms (but only the ones who love Straya and have passed the "You'd never catch me going back to the UK" test)

4. Americans (grudgingly, but they did give us that Black chick from 'X-Factor' who blows smoke up our @rses every five minutes so they're ok)

5. Croatians, Italians and Greeks. Well, they're practically Strayans anyway.

6. Random other Europeans. Whatever. But, if they once holidayed in Straya and said nice things about us, then, ok.

7. Asylum-seekers. Trying to cheat their way into our grate country and rob us of our right to eat overcooked pork sausages on a Saturday morning outside our local Bunnings. Bast$rds.

 

There's quite a hierarchy of human worth among them too, eh?

 

1. diggers

2. tradies

3. police/nurses/firies

4. battlers (wear hi viz but aren't technically tradies, but aren't unemployed either)

5. dole bludgers (wear hi viz to Centrelink in vain bid to look like seeking employment)

6. people who read 'books' (especially if not wearing hi viz at the time)

7. students

8. people who have a degree

9. dentists

10. lawyers

11. pollies

12. green pollies

[Guest241083]

There's quite a hierarchy of human worth among them too, eh?

 

1. diggers

2. tradies

3. police/nurses/firies

4. battlers (wear hi viz but aren't technically tradies, but aren't unemployed either)

5. dole bludgers (wear hi viz to Centrelink in vain bid to look like seeking employment)

6. people who read 'books' (especially if not wearing hi viz at the time)

7. students

8. people who have a degree

9. dentists

10. lawyers

11. pollies

12. green pollies

 

 

 

 

........but it begs the question........

 

........useing my example today......

 

........should I of given my money to the beggar...........to just survive....

........or cancer research................for the good of many........

..........morally for me the beggar.....

..........but for the good of the human race as a whole.........the research......

 

..........not all are equal........

...........sadly .....

...........but it's how life is........IMO......tink X

[Guest]

:biglaugh:

There's quite a hierarchy of human worth among them too, eh?

 

1. diggers

2. tradies

3. police/nurses/firies

4. battlers (wear hi viz but aren't technically tradies, but aren't unemployed either)

5. dole bludgers (wear hi viz to Centrelink in vain bid to look like seeking employment)

6. people who read 'books' (especially if not wearing hi viz at the time)

7. students

8. people who have a degree

9. dentists

10. lawyers

11. pollies

12. green pollies

 

Whereabouts would you put Real Estate-oes, Forensic Accountanty's and Consultant Paediatricianoes?

[Harpodom]

:biglaugh:

 

Whereabouts would you put Real Estate-oes, Forensic Accountanty's and Consultant Paediatricianoes?

 

Real Estate-oes: I'd put 'em between 3 and 4

 

Forensic Accountanty's and Consultant Paediatricianoes: well, they've got degrees ain't they? Number 8

[MARYROSE02]

[/b]

Harpo don't be naive. For some it's a case of "the dead in order of importance";

 

1. Austrayans. Battlers, every single one of them. Bloody legends. Awesome, etc.

2. New Zealanders (preferably ones who were living in Straya at the time)

3. Poms (but only the ones who love Straya and have passed the "You'd never catch me going back to the UK" test)

4. Americans (grudgingly, but they did give us that Black chick from 'X-Factor' who blows smoke up our @rses every five minutes so they're ok)

5. Croatians, Italians and Greeks. Well, they're practically Strayans anyway.

6. Random other Europeans. Whatever. But, if they once holidayed in Straya and said nice things about us, then, ok.

7. Asylum-seekers. Trying to cheat their way into our grate country and rob us of our right to eat overcooked pork sausages on a Saturday morning outside our local Bunnings. Bast$rds.

 

Perfectly put. But what exactly is it about Australia that makes it so attractive to so many other races? I mean, 200 years ago there was nothing of interest here for any of them. What might have been in The Middle East if England had decided to invade and set up their penal colony there eh? There we be no boats to Australia now.

[MARYROSE02]

........but it begs the question........

 

........useing my example today......

 

........should I of given my money to the beggar...........to just survive....

........or cancer research................for the good of many........

..........morally for me the beggar.....

..........but for the good of the human race as a whole.........the research......

 

..........not all are equal........

...........sadly .....

...........but it's how life is........IMO......tink X

 

In theory we should mourn to the same degree whether it is for a family member or someone we never knew. Or rather "in fact' for Harpo and Flag who carry the weight of the world on their shoulders.

[Guest241083]

In theory we should mourn to the same degree whether it is for a family member or someone we never knew. Or rather "in fact' for Harpo and Flag who carry the weight of the world on their shoulders.

 

 

.......it's a moral issue IMO.....

......and while I try to see every one as equal........

......it's not practical......

.......to maintain the good of the whole....

.......there will always be casualties..........unfortunately........and sadly.......!