Guest Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Well, they ARE more special, aren't they? True, a special people, with Special Needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 How long is the waiting list for public housing in Sydney - the most popular destination for immigrants, along with Melbourne - ten years? Maybe it is more? I'm sure that anybody on that list will of course be willing to wait a few more years so a fake asylum seeker can get a free home? .........people who are found to be refugees go through character, security and medical tests. .......The Government does not give them houses, jobs or spending money.! ........We need to be truth seekers .........! .........and not rely on fear perceptions ........ staged by fear-mongering politicians........! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 The main stream politicians base their policies on the wishes of the electorate. Mostly anyway. Obviously politicians want to be reelected and on this issue both Labor and Liberal clearly want to discourage illegal boat arrivals. The Greens are obviously fringe dwellers and make a lot of noise but only won one seat in the lower house at the last election so their views do not resonate very widely. We do have to be careful. We are incredibly fortunate that we have not had a major terrorist event here, but we do know that there are those who do wish to do us harm, so we need to be very careful who we let in. I'm glad that our government is not a soft touch. I hate to think what might happen if we just let everyone in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 .......what is it we're afraid of.......????... ........a feeling of threat.........which has been masterfully played to by adept politicians, ........this then becomes a communal assent to such propositions ........ ........."We should not be held captive to people smugglers," .........or "Queue jumpers don't deserve to be cared for because there those more deserving," ........."Boat people who deliberately destroy their documents are just trying to rort the system."........... .........it saddens me.......These people have travelled to countries full of violence,........ ..........people are persecuted for what they believe and who they are,.....! .........governments imprison and torture their own citizens...... .........where civil conflict has torn away the fabric of society and rape and murder are just part of everyday life, ........ .........of course these people have to make hard choices .........they choose to embark on risky, life-threatening journeys in order to find safety. .......safety......not a free ride ......! .........But most of us have no idea what this is like........................so are shocked when confronted with the outcome of such choices - ..........especially if the outcome is death. ...........perhaps by travelling to where they have come from..... ............experiencing what they have experienced...... ............walk a mile etc etc.......would encourage a little empathy......for a deserving part of the human race.....!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Tink, you know there is a genuine threat. You raised a thread about it yourself only a few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 .........people who are found to be refugees go through character, security and medical tests........The Government does not give them houses, jobs or spending money.! ........We need to be truth seekers .........! .........and not rely on fear perceptions ........ staged by fear-mongering politicians........! True tink, mary's fear spattered opinion 'slurry' is reminiscent of the idiotic comments made by some woman in the election last year (she just happened to be the coalition candidate for a western Sydney suburb) who was blaming traffic congestion on asylum seekers. Tell enough lies often enough and sooner or later the mud sticks to its target, typical tactics of the far right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Even if the majority of the population want the boats stopped and don't want people who have arrived by boat to be settled here, surely most people would want the people that are here to be treated humanely, and with dignity and respect, who wouldn't want that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Tink, you know there is a genuine threat.You raised a thread about it yourself only a few days ago. .......I'm talking about the majority......penalised for the few....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Even if the majority of the population want the boats stopped and don't want people who have arrived by boat to be settled here, surely most people would want the people that are here to be treated humanely, and with dignity and respect, who wouldn't want that? Who wouldn't want that? People so lacking in basic empathy that they have become diminished as human beings, that's who Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Tink, you know there is a genuine threat.You raised a thread about it yourself only a few days ago. .....it makes me so cross...... .....that so many are willing to treat ..ALL.....those in need .....real need.... ......so shamelessly..... .......on the sanctioned policies of harm..... .......bandied about and used as score tactics by today's politicians.... .......surely with the evidence available...... .......the ordinary man can differentiate between.... .......those in need and those who pose a threat..... ......there are enough safety measures in place... .......yes a baddie may get through...! ........and it's a huge concern.... .......but does this make it right to treat all........so shamefully.... ........whose only fault is to of come from the same country.....? ........make up your own mind......research......read.......experience if you can..... ........but do not be lead by political games...... .........just my views......tink x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 .....it makes me so cross...........that so many are willing to treat ..ALL.....those in need .....real need.... ......so shamelessly..... .......on the sanctioned policies of harm..... .......bandied about and used as score tactics by today's politicians.... .......surely with the evidence available...... .......the ordinary man can differentiate between.... .......those in need and those who pose a threat..... ......there are enough safety measures in place... .......yes a baddie may get through...! ........and it's a huge concern.... .......but does this make it right to treat all........so shamefully.... ........whose only fault is to of come from the same country.....? ........make up your own mind......research......read.......experience if you can..... ........but do not be lead by political games...... .........just my views......tink x Tink will you just stop being so damn humane, you're raising the tone around here! :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Tink will you just stop being so damn humane, you're raising the tone around here! :smile: .......lol....! ......I now try and stay away from these threads.... ......with the evidence available...... ......it makes me angry and sad..... ......that some still cannot see the harm they do.... ......by allowing politicians to shamelessly use a vunerable people as pawns in politicle games... ......that documented evidence by those who have first hand experience.... .......is treated with suspicion.... ........yet political agendas are taken as gospel..... ........mere views and policies with nothing more than fear mongering and point scoring..... ........and no empathy for the people it concerns...... ........trading on the publics fear of terrorist activity..... .........it has created a unsavoury feeling ...of not in my country..... ..........through ignorance and manipulation..... ...........to the detriment of the genuine seeking asylum......a human right.....! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 The end game is in sight. Morrison is riding rough shod through the 1951 Refugee Convention. Australia may as well withdraw completely now... http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-30/crock-bones-refugee-plan-an-affront-to-rule-of-law/5775720 [h=1]Refugee plan an affront to rule of law[/h] Opinion The Drum Mary Crock and Kate Bones about 10 hours ago Photo Refugees will face the uncertainty of a future dependent on the whim of incumbent immigration ministers. ABC News The Government's new refugee plan doesn't create the Safe Haven Enterprise visa that Clive Palmer expects, and instead is devised as a full-blown assault on our international obligations, write Mary Crock and Kate Bones. Last week the Immigration Minister, Scott Morrison, introduced a bill that promised to "resolve" Australia's "asylum legacy caseload". Clive Palmer lauded the bill as a "game changer" - reputedly because it created a five-year visa allowing refugees who work in nominated areas of Australia to possibly transition to permanent residence. The promise of this new visa secured Palmer’s support for the reintroduction of temporary protection visas. In fact the bill is an omnibus measure that does nothing to resolve issues for asylum seekers. It does not create Palmer's new visa. What it does do is undermine respect for Australia's international obligations - and the concept of judicial independence. For legislation that is already hugely complex, this bill would take the opacity and convolution of the system to a whole new level. In our view, Clive Palmer has been sold a pup. The "Safe Haven Enterprise" visa is created in name only. The bill leaves the substance of the visa to be established later. A new section 46AA would make clear that a person cannot apply for the visa until the government specifies criteria in regulations. Under the current Act, asylum seekers who arrive irregularly cannot make any valid visa application until the minister personally "lifts the bar". This means the minister retains control over who may access this new visa (if and when it is created). Our guess is that few would benefit. Most who gain recognition as refugees (a status that would become harder to achieve as we explain below) will be granted temporary protection visas. [h=2]Proposed visa laws explained[/h] Take a look at the ins and outs of the Government's visa laws.As for the prospect of transitioning to permanent residence, much depends on the form the Safe Haven Enterprise visa takes when actually created in regulations. Realistic migration pathways need to be available. Most onshore permanent visas have sponsorship criteria and application fees that refugees may not be able to meet. As things stand, the centerpiece of Palmer’s "deal" has no legislative base. However, the (non) creation of a new visa is the least offensive aspect of this bill. The real issue is what it says about international law. The bill amends the Maritime Powers Act to expand already broad powers to intercept vessels and detain people at sea. It seeks to exclude challenge to government actions that are in breach of international law, taking aim at pending High Court action on behalf of the 157 asylum seekers detained recently on board the Ocean Protector. The bill explicitly states that powers exercised under this Act are not invalid if inconsistent with Australia’s international obligations. For asylum seekers languishing for upwards of two years with no access to refugee status procedures, the Migration Act would be amended to create a new "fast track assessment process". There would be no possibility of appeal to the Refugee Review Tribunal, but a new authority would be created with reviewers appointed by the minister. Review would be undertaken on the papers, with possibility for interviews only in exceptional circumstances. Past attempts to restrict independent merits review led to an explosion in judicial review applications, many of which succeeded because the unsupervised decision-making was so poor. Parallel amendments to the Migration Act would put space between domestic laws and principles of international law, grouped under the innocuous heading "Clarifying Australia's international law obligations". References to the Refugee Convention would be removed from the criteria for a protection visa, and a modified version of key articles inserted. [h=2]More from The Drum[/h]ExpandThe power to remove non-citizens would be expanded by a provision that states: "It is irrelevant whether Australia has non-refoulement obligations" in respect of a person; and removal can occur "irrespective of whether there has been an assessment, according to law" of whether protection obligations are engaged. The amendments are designed to address a series of court cases in which judges have held that the Migration Act reflects Australia's non-refoulement obligations under international law. Asylum seekers cannot be removed without a fair assessment of their protection claim. Confusingly, Minister Scott Morrison's second reading speech asserts that Australia is not trying to avoid its international obligations. Rather, the changes are intended to ensure that the law in Australia is not "subject to the interpretations of foreign courts or judicial bodies which seek to expand the scope of the refugees convention well beyond what was ever intended by this country or this parliament". This is misconceived. The Australian courts do not apply the decisions of foreign courts. Decisions in other jurisdictions may be considered in deciding on the correct interpretation of international legal obligations as translated into our law. Even if Australia were to withdraw from the Refugee Convention, it doesn't change the obligation not to refoule or return refugees to persecution and torture. The bill itself acknowledges that non-refoulement is a norm of customary international law, a principle so fundamental it binds states not party to the Refugee Convention. Where does this leave us? If we are not withdrawing from the Refugee Convention, then international law will continue to be relevant in interpreting the words of an Australian statute. Australia is a sitting member of the UN Security Council. How are our politicians not embarrassed by this unseemly game-playing? It is totally unbecoming of Australia - the country whose accession brought the Refugee Convention into force. Palmer is right that this bill is a game changer. It uses the distraction of an empty promise (of a new visa) to launch a full-blown assault on the rule of law, attempting to remove any constraints or oversight of what the Government can do to asylum seekers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 .......lol....!......I now try and stay away from these threads.... ......with the evidence available...... ......it makes me angry and sad..... ......that some still cannot see the harm they do.... ......by allowing politicians to shamelessly use a vunerable people as pawns in politicle games... ......that documented evidence by those who have first hand experience.... .......is treated with suspicion.... ........yet political agendas are taken as gospel..... ........mere views and policies with nothing more than fear mongering and point scoring..... ........and no empathy for the people it concerns...... ........trading on the publics fear of terrorist activity..... .........it has created a unsavoury feeling ...of not in my country..... ..........through ignorance and manipulation..... ...........to the detriment of the genuine seeking asylum......a human right.....! . :notworthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 :notworthy: ....thank you......hopefully in the not too distant future many more will share these views..... .....and question the morals and motives of those chosen to make decisions for us.....tink X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 At the next General Election, we will find out if the majority of the Australian population approve or disprove of the present Government's policies. I know who I will be voting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Who will you be voting for Harpo ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 At the next General Election, we will find out if the majority of the Australian population approve or disprove of the present Government's policies. I know who I will be voting for. Ultimately that's your ONLY excuse isn't it? When your argument for cruelty has been blown to smithereens with facts, logic, common sense and basic decency....you hide behind the 'well everyone else thinks the same so there!' justification. Thankfully there are people who question and stand up to the 'mob rule' version of democracy that you espouse, who can recognise bull$hit when they see it. Democratic countries have done some fairly horrific things you know...I'm sure even you can think of some examples of democratically elected governments that have (and still do) commit atrocities, with a majority of their electorate in favour. Get yourself educated mate, free yourself from the Murdochian shackles that hold you down...as Russell Brand said to Fox News anchor Sean Hannity, 'come back to humanity' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Who will you be voting for Harpo ? I'm undecided....you looking for advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Its okay I just remembered you are ineligible to vote, so won't have a say. Shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Its okay I just remembered you are ineligible to vote, so won't have a say. Shame. Oh I will mate, just to piss you off. :notworthy::hug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Ultimately that's your ONLY excuse isn't it? When your argument for cruelty has been blown to smithereens with facts, logic, common sense and basic decency....you hide behind the 'well everyone else thinks the same so there!' justification. Thankfully there are people who question and stand up to the 'mob rule' version of democracy that you espouse, who can recognise bull$hit when they see it. Democratic countries have done some fairly horrific things you know...I'm sure even you can think of some examples of democratically elected governments that have (and still do) commit atrocities, with a majority of their electorate in favour. Get yourself educated mate, free yourself from the Murdochian shackles that hold you down...as Russell Brand said to Fox News anchor Sean Hannity, 'come back to humanity' As you well know, I am neither heartless, nor racist, but I remain suspicious of the motives of those who constantly look for the worst in everybody and everything connected with the process of preventing illegal people from entering Australia. The Guardian and The ABC and people like yourself are determined to paint the RAN, the Customs service, the police, the Immigration Department, the people who run the detention centres as little better than Nazi concentration camp guards, whilst suspending all rational thoughts when it comes to looking at the motives of the illegal boat people and others. The people who own and run the boats themselves, who would be imprisoned for life if they tried to run a similar service in Australia, you see as altruistic lovers of humanity, whilst the people who pay to be taken to Australia illegally are all bona fida refugees fleeing from the worst regimes in the world. If they take their children on unseaworthy boats, packed like sardines, then that is not evidence of their own lack of care for their own families, but evidence of their desperaton to flee oppression. And of course, anybody who SAYS they are are a refugee must be accepted as a refugee, and it is inhumane to do anything by the most rudimentary of checks. They should immediately be released into the general Australian community and given the best of everything, homes, welfare, medical care, and their needs must come before those of Australians. Under Rudd and Gillard, the boats and the people flooded into Australia, with many hundreds of people drowning. and our facilities on Christmas Island overwhelmed. Tony Abbott said he would 'stop the boats' and he did. End of. I'm happy. If Rudd and Gillard had still been in power, then thousands more people would likely have drowned, and criminals in Indonesia would have continued to make their profits. What have I missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Its okay I just remembered you are ineligible to vote, so won't have a say. Shame. .....people can still have an opinion....vote or not... .....and do something about what they feel passionate about..... .....it's more than voting for the right party....who often don't keep their promises any way.... .....be proactive.....informed.....! .....too easy to just let the government take the whole responsibility ...and not say so....!. ......if people did something.......supported the cause and spoke up.... ......perhaps then politicians would have to consider their policies.......and the feeling of joe public to them... ......just a thought PC......x 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Its okay I just remembered you are ineligible to vote, so won't have a say. Shame. Most people think you can still have a opinion on something without voting. You certainly seemed to have a opinion on the referendum even though you didn't have a say! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 :biglaugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.