Harpodom Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Do you think they risk not only their lives but the lives of their children on a selfish whim? Have you any insight into the conditions that true asylum seekers live under? I can't imagine any asylum seeker takes the decsion to enter illegally lightly, I see it a a mark of desperation...one we can have a very limited understanding of in our cosy little existance That's it in a nutshell Fi. That story of the Hazara deported to Afghanistan resonates because after all the guy has been through, he ends up back where he started. The Taliban assume he is a spy; the police assume he is a terrorist, meanwhile all he wants to do is see his child for the first time. Its heartbreaking. We have no bloody idea what it must be like. Its also terrifying to see how easily we blame the persecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Again, you are arguing that everybody who tries to come here and says they are escaping persecution should be admitted, no exceptions, no suspicions, and no limit on the numbers coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 That's it in a nutshell Fi. That story of the Hazara deported to Afghanistan resonates because after all the guy has been through, he ends up back where he started. The Taliban assume he is a spy; the police assume he is a terrorist, meanwhile all he wants to do is see his child for the first time. Its heartbreaking. We have no bloody idea what it must be like. Its also terrifying to see how easily we blame the persecuted. I agree, it's important to critically analyse what we a re fed by govt re all sorts of issues, failure to do so is laziness, apathy, general disinterest I guess...that's not to say everything we are told is a load of bull but clearly government agendas are powerful and it's so easy to whip up the public into a frenzy of indignity, as seen the world over....scapegoats are great for politicians, detracts from their crap policy making. You can't take everything on face value. The complexities of asylum and immigration are massive, I don't really see detention as a great 'solution' or deterrent for that matter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Again, you are arguing that everybody who tries to come here and says they are escaping persecution should be admitted, no exceptions, no suspicions, and no limit on the numbers coming in. Who is arguing that? No-one, and such an approach is clearly not the way forward....the answers may never be easily identified but that doesn't mean that current policy should not be open to critical scrutiny....you cant just ignore it and hope it will go away..its not my problem therefore I dont care about it...where would we be if all world citizens took that approach when people were in need?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Leaving aside parley's scepticism of the article concerning the Hazara refugee refouled to Afghanistan (must be fake, Morrison would never authorise the deportation of any Hazaras back there would he?), I wonder what he makes of the 80% of paediatricians who view mandatory detention as child abuse? Would he and others of his ilk boycott doctors for having 'extreme left' political views? Maybe there's a way that you can vet your doctor (no pun intended) for their political views, so that if you hold extreme right-wing views you don't have to see one of those compassionate, life-saving, 'lefty' ones? There must be other ones you can see, ones who'll say "Look you're a burden on your family and the tax-payer, plus you smell, that'll be $200.00?" Or, "Bulk Bill?, are you f*****g serious?!!, that Porsche won't pay for itself!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 What are you talking about ? You have lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 You know what mate, I bet there is a significant cohort out there who'd eschew a bulk billing doctor in favour of one who charges like a Mallee bull, you know, wanting to get their 'money's worth'. Such is the perverse grip capitalism has on our lives! Maybe there's a way that you can vet your doctor (no pun intended) for their political views, so that if you hold extreme right-wing views you don't have to see one of those compassionate, life-saving, 'lefty' ones? There must be other ones you can see, ones who'll say "Look you're a burden on your family and the tax-payer, plus you smell, that'll be $200.00?" Or, "Bulk Bill?, are you f*****g serious?!!, that Porsche won't pay for itself!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Who is arguing that? No-one, and such an approach is clearly not the way forward....the answers may never be easily identified but that doesn't mean that current policy should not be open to critical scrutiny....you cant just ignore it and hope it will go away..its not my problem therefore I dont care about it...where would we be if all world citizens took that approach when people were in need?? Australia has an official refugee intake, unlike so many other countries. Australia gives large amounts of foreign aid to other countries, both in the Pacifc and further afield. Australia, whether you agree with the reasons or not, is always willing to 'do its bit' as in the present crisis with IS. Australia, in addition to monetary aid, always helps its Pacific neighbours in times of need. Either you are in favour of controls over our borders, or you want unlimited entry. There is no middle way, because however many we accept, it will never be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 In any case, bottom line, the Pacific Solution IS working, and there has been just one boat into Australia since the Abbott Government took office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 I honestly believe that the overwhelming majority of Australians, if they were fully informed, would be appalled at what is being done (or being proposed in parliament) in their name. http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/n/mr/140926_AsylumLegacyBill.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 We shall see at the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 I said 'fully informed' which implies receiving information from reliable sources, rather than tainted ones with hidden agendas. The current Orwellian climate gives insight into how easy it is to dupe the public into believing anything you like: climate change is fake, asylum seekers are queue jumpers/terrorists, coal is good, forests are bad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Sounds very much like getting your excuses prepared in advance for when you lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Sounds very much like getting your excuses prepared in advance for when you lose. Are you standing at the next election Harpo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I honestly believe that the overwhelming majority of Australians, if they were fully informed, would be appalled at what is being done (or being proposed in parliament) in their name. http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/n/mr/140926_AsylumLegacyBill.pdf I honestly believe you would be wrong in thinking that and I'm pretty sure the majority of Australians are pretty happy with next to no boat arrivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I said 'fully informed' which implies receiving information from reliable sources, rather than tainted ones with hidden agendas. The current Orwellian climate gives insight into how easy it is to dupe the public into believing anything you like: climate change is fake, asylum seekers are queue jumpers/terrorists, coal is good, forests are bad.... That's the problem though Harpo. Who knows what is a reliable source these days. Everyone has an agenda and can put forward an argument based on facts that they choose to highlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I honestly believe you would be wrong in thinking that and I'm pretty sure the majority of Australians are pretty happy with next to no boat arrivals. It's been rammed down their necks enough. One can sell most anything saying it enough. Populist sentiment would be against immigration far more strongly if aware of the abuse in checking qualifications and the many back door entries possible not to mention the lack of policing the overseas folk purchasing of established property. Not in business or government interest to bring to light though and asylum seekers make easy scape goats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 That's the problem though Harpo. Who knows what is a reliable source these days. Everyone has an agenda and can put forward an argument based on facts that they choose to highlight. Not that difficult to know right from wrong and where the real abuse is happening. Although the truth always takes that bit extra of digging. Government certainly has agendas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Of course some Australians will believe what they want to believe, based on their own prejudices, regardless of the information available. And some of those are just evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 It's been rammed down their necks enough. One can sell most anything saying it enough. Populist sentiment would be against immigration far more strongly if aware of the abuse in checking qualifications and the many back door entries possible not to mention the lack of policing the overseas folk purchasing of established property. Not in business or government interest to bring to light though and asylum seekers make easy scape goats. I'm with you on bringing things to light on other back door entry and purchasing of property by foreigners. There's also the high number of Chinese being exploited, mostly by there own countrymen where they authorities are only just scratching the surface. Example being the huge property they checked out out past Wanneroo recently, where they discovered lots of people working illegally, getting paid a pittance and living inside a compound in squalor. Investigation is still continuing. I'm all for cancelling a few more visas of people who want to exploit others. The people doing it seem to have money though, so I doubt they will get what they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Of course some Australians will believe what they want to believe, based on their own prejudices, regardless of the information available. And some of those are just evil. You pick and choose what you believe just as everyone else does Harpo. Just pick the bits that you think are right and pick the people who you think are telling the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 The ABC the ALP the Fairfax Press The Guardian all infallible purveyors of the truths we want to ignore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Not sure why someone, who freely admits he couldn't care less what happens to asylum seekers in detention, should be at all bothered where the truth lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Not sure why someone, who freely admits he couldn't care less what happens to asylum seekers in detention, should be at all bothered where the truth lies. I'm sure we would all like to know the truth about things. No matter what we think about the asylum seekers issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You know, the Left hate Abbott the same way that I hate Chelsea ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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