MARYROSE02 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 the funny thing is, from an environmental perspective i'm not even sure it matters anymore. the rest of the world is already moving on, large investment groups, (some Australian) are realizing coal is a dangerous asset, with a likelihood to be stranded. the die hard capitalists that run our world don't care for the planet, but money...... now things are changing. the bigger risk to Australia is isolation, i suppose we can be a secular nation with Australian businesses only selling to Australians with a shite international standing, but is that really what we want? Tell me again to whom Australia exports its coal and gas? Tell me again, which countries with similarly large resources of coal/gas/oil who are stopping their production and export? Tell me again, just how many conventionally fuelled power stations China operates and continues to open. Never mind about how much it spends on wind/solar power. And of course, it does not matter because Australia produces such a minscule percentage of the world's pollutants, compared to the really big players. I wonder if it's worth my Googling to see who are the big coal producers and who are the big coal users? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 [h=1]Coal Statistics[/h][h=3]Coal provides around 30.1% of global primary energy needs, generates over 40% of the world's electricity and is used in the production of 70% of the world's steel.[/h]Total Global Coal Production 7823Mt (2013e) 7794Mt (2012) 4677Mt (1990) [h=4]Top Ten Coal Producers (2013e)[/h][TABLE] [TR] [TH]PR China[/TH] [TD]3561Mt[/TD] [TH]Russia[/TH] [TD]347Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]USA[/TH] [TD]904Mt[/TD] [TH]South Africa[/TH] [TD]256Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]India[/TH] [TD]613Mt[/TD] [TH]Germany[/TH] [TD]191Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Indonesia[/TH] [TD]489Mt[/TD] [TH]Poland[/TH] [TD]143Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Australia[/TH] [TD]459Mt[/TD] [TH]Kazakhstan[/TH] [TD]120Mt[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Total world coal production reached a record level of 7822.8Mt in 2013, increasing by 0.4% in comparison to the previous year. [h=4]Top Ten Steam Coal Producers (2013e)[/h][TABLE] [TR] [TH]PR China[/TH] [TD]3034Mt[/TD] [TH]Australia[/TH] [TD]239Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]USA[/TH] [TD]756Mt[/TD] [TH=align: left]Russia[/TH] [TD]201Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]India[/TH] [TD]526Mt[/TD] [TH]Kazakhstan[/TH] [TD]103Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Indonesia[/TH] [TD]486Mt[/TD] [TH]Colombia[/TH] [TD]81Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]South Africa[/TH] [TD]255Mt[/TD] [TH]Poland[/TH] [TD]65Mt[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [h=4]Top Ten Coking Coal Producers (2013e)[/h][TABLE] [TR] [TH]PR China[/TH] [TD]527Mt[/TD] [TH]Canada[/TH] [TD]34Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Australia[/TH] [TD]158Mt[/TD] [TH=align: left]Mongolia[/TH] [TD]20Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]USA[/TH] [TD]78Mt[/TD] [TH]Ukraine[/TH] [TD]20Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Russia[/TH] [TD]73Mt[/TD] [TH]Kazakhstan[/TH] [TD]12Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]India[/TH] [TD]42Mt[/TD] [TH]Poland[/TH] [TD]12Mt[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [h=4]Top Ten Brown Coal Producers (2013e)[/h][TABLE] [TR] [TH]Germany[/TH] [TD]183Mt[/TD] [TH]Australia[/TH] [TD]63Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Russia[/TH] [TD]73Mt[/TD] [TH=align: left]Greece[/TH] [TD]54Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]USA[/TH] [TD]70Mt[/TD] [TH]India[/TH] [TD]45Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Poland[/TH] [TD]66Mt[/TD] [TH]Czech Republic[/TH] [TD]40Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Turkey[/TH] [TD]63Mt[/TD] [TH]Serbia[/TH] [TD]40Mt[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [h=4]Reserves[/h]There are two internationally recognised methods for assessing world coal reserves. The first one is produced by the German Federal Institute for Geosciences and Natural Resources (BGR) and is used by the IEA as the main source of information about coal reserves. The second one is produced by the World Energy Council (WEC) and is used by the BP Statistical Review of World Energy. According to BGR there are 1052 billion tonnes of coal reserves left, equivalent to 134.5 years of global coal output in 2013. Coal reserves reported by WEC are much lower - 892 billion tonnes, equivalent to 113 years of coal output. [h=4]Coal in Electricity Generation (2012)[/h]Coal is the major fuel used for generating electricity worldwide. In 2013 coal was used to generate over 40% of the world's electricity. [TABLE] [TR] [TH]Mongolia[/TH] [TD]95%[/TD] [TH]India[/TH] [TD]71%[/TD] [TH]Germany[/TH] [TD]44%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]South Africa[/TH] [TD]93%[/TD] [TH]Australia[/TH] [TD]69%[/TD] [TH]USA[/TH] [TD]38%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Poland[/TH] [TD]83%[/TD] [TH]Israel[/TH] [TD]61%[/TD] [TH]UK[/TH] [TD]39%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]PR China[/TH] [TD]81%[/TD] [TH]Indonesia[/TH] [TD]48%[/TD] [TH]Japan[/TH] [TD]21%[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [h=4]Coal & Steel[/h]Approximately 15% (over 1.2 billion tonnes) of total coal production is currently used by the steel industry and roughly 70% of total global steel production is dependent on coal. [h=4]World Coal Trade[/h][TABLE] [TR] [TH] [/TH] [TH]Steam[/TH] [TH]Coking[/TH] [TH]Lignite[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TH]2011[/TH] [TD]910Mt[/TD] [TD]286Mt[/TD] [TD]3.7Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]2012[/TH] [TD]979Mt[/TD] [TD]294Mt[/TD] [TD]6.9Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]2013[/TH] [TD]1028Mt[/TD] [TD]301Mt[/TD] [TD]4.8Mt[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [h=4]Top Coal Exporters (2013e)[/h][TABLE] [TR] [TH] [/TH] [TH]Total of which[/TH] [TH]Steam[/TH] [TH]Coking[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Indonesia[/TH] [TD]426Mt[/TD] [TD]423Mt[/TD] [TD]3Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Australia[/TH] [TD]336Mt[/TD] [TD]182Mt[/TD] [TD]154Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Russia[/TH] [TD]141Mt[/TD] [TD]118Mt[/TD] [TD]22Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]USA[/TH] [TD]107Mt[/TD] [TD]47Mt[/TD] [TD]60Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Colombia[/TH] [TD]74Mt[/TD] [TD]73Mt[/TD] [TD]1Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]South Africa[/TH] [TD]72Mt[/TD] [TD]72Mt[/TD] [TD]0Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Canada[/TH] [TD]37Mt[/TD] [TD]4Mt[/TD] [TD]33Mt[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [h=4]Top Coal Importers (2013e)[/h][TABLE] [TR] [TH] [/TH] [TH]Total of which[/TH] [TH]Steam[/TH] [TH=colspan: 2]Coking[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TH]PR China[/TH] [TD]327Mt[/TD] [TD]250Mt[/TD] [TD=colspan: 2]77Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Japan[/TH] [TD]196Mt[/TD] [TD]142Mt[/TD] [TD=colspan: 2]54Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]India[/TH] [TD]180Mt[/TD] [TD]142Mt[/TD] [TD=colspan: 2]38Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]South Korea[/TH] [TD]126Mt[/TD] [TD]95Mt[/TD] [TD=colspan: 2]31Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Chinese Tapei[/TH] [TD]68Mt[/TD] [TD]61Mt[/TD] [TD=colspan: 2]7Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Germany[/TH] [TD]51Mt[/TD] [TD]43Mt[/TD] [TD=colspan: 2]8Mt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]UK[/TH] [TD]50Mt[/TD] [TD]44Mt[/TD] [TD=colspan: 2]6Mt[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Sources: BP, IEA, World Steel Association, WEC (e = estimated) (Mt = Million tonnes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Seriously guys, we all know climate change is crap, don't we? So let's have no demonisation of coal, after all, coal is good for humanity. Anyway, we don't need windmills and all that rubbish. Wind farms are utterly offensive, I'd go so far as to say a blight on the landscape. With regard to trees, I'd say we have too much locked up forest, and that's coming from me, the ultimate conservationist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Seriously guys, we all know climate change is crap, don't we? So let's have no demonisation of coal, after all, coal is good for humanity. Anyway, we don't need windmills and all that rubbish. Wind farms are utterly offensive, I'd go so far as to say a blight on the landscape. With regard to trees, I'd say we have too much locked up forest, and that's coming from me, the ultimate conservationist. Never mind that Harpo, look at those figures for coal and tell me what would be the likely effect of Australia ending all production of its coal. Would our competitors also stop production or would they just jump in to take our share of the market, leaving us to take the moral ground (which is of course what you want.) Just take a look at how much coal the 'big four' produce - China, USA, India, Indonesia - to take just one statistic. Some people DO find wind farms to be ugly. No matter how good or bad they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 We must dig up MORE COAL, NOW!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this tax china have recently announced on crap coal from Australia, do you think the boy abbott will impose a tit-for-tat tax on their solar panels? it would be a win win for the coal boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 We must dig up MORE COAL, NOW!!!! It does not matter what Australia does or does not do, what about the rest of the world, in particular the biggest producers, who are also the biggest polluters, and thus they can spend large sums of money on renewable energy, which looks good on paper, but disguises what they really do. Besides, you ignored my question, viz, 'What would be the effect of Australia ending all coal production - on both its own economy - and on world production and use fo coal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this tax china have recently announced on crap coal from Australia, do you think the boy abbott will impose a tit-for-tat tax on their solar panels? it would be a win win for the coal boys Look at the overall coal production and usage figures for Chinese coal. Like Harpo, you refuse to look at the facts. China, together with the USA, India, Indonesia (and probably Russia) are the biggest generators and the biggest users of coal. What Australia does is meaningless in the world context, but dangerous to our own economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 We must dig up MORE COAL, NOW!!!! Not just coal, either, but more of everything, especially uranium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this is the big problem though, yes they use loads, but they are moving in a direction away from coal. this will take time but it's happening, whether you believe in global warming or not the world (for the most part) is agreeing on doing something about it. this as you have said will hurt Australia, so why are we not moving to adjust to mitigate the pain. our leaders seem to be digging the country in deeper, throwing all the chips into a tanking stock instead of diversifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Not just coal, either, but more of everything, especially uranium. And end up another Nauru in time. From one of the richest to a failed state in a few generations. Dug up holes in the ground a spent quarry. What we need is not the Bogans dictating policy. We need reflection as to where and what sort of nation we want to become and how to arrive at that. Rather rudderless at the moment. Hoping for the best and secretly fearing the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Look at the overall coal production and usage figures for Chinese coal. Like Harpo, you refuse to look at the facts. China, together with the USA, India, Indonesia (and probably Russia) are the biggest generators and the biggest users of coal. What Australia does is meaningless in the world context, but dangerous to our own economy. China is moving away from coal and is very aware of pollution concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee13 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I didnt even think many in scotland would know who he actually was.. and just confirmed by SS ...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I didnt even think many in scotland would know who he actually was.. and just confirmed by SS ...!! What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 welcome to the thread, i've just searched a couple of other threads for the reference to you lol did you know you didn't know who we knew you should know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm so confused.. Help :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee13 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The less you know about.... x ... the better ....trust me... :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If your taking the piss out of me then I want to know :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 i'm still trying to work out what's going on myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Well when someone figures out what your talking about can someone explain it to dumbass here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee13 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Not taking the piss at you SS ... but if you read back this thread about some dude who is well known and talented for his gaffes ... most recently Scotland related ... if youve never heard of him SS youre not actually missing much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have heard of him! I commented on his gaffes before especially the Scotland one. That's why I didn't get what you were talking about :confused: I don't know much about him other than a few things he's said and that parleys his number 1 fan :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee13 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) You got it....Not knowing much about him other than hes famous for the customary gaffes at subjects hes generally unfamiliar with ... and umm perhaps also parleys #1 fan is pretty much what he should be remembered for .. :wink: Edited October 13, 2014 by gee13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee13 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/555308/20140611/canadia-tony-abbott-gaffe.htm#.VDvTnlAZ7qA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You got it....Not knowing much about him other than hes famous for the customary gaffes at subjects hes generally unfamiliar with ... and umm perhaps also parleys #1 fan is pretty much what he should be remembered for .. :wink: To be fair to him is what he said about Scotland any worse than others? I think Obama had opinions on it as well. when your constantly being told things like you would have been permanently in food banks these comments don't bother you too much :wink: he still seems a bit of a muppet though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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