Harpodom Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 IMO, Michael Rosen nails it with this letter to his mate Michael Gove. British values are ‘democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, mutual respect and tolerance towards those of different faiths’, according to Michael Gove. Photograph: John Macdougall/AFP/Getty Images http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jul/01/gove-what-is-so-british-your-british-values What are 'British values' in Gove World? They sound suspiciously like those uniquely Australian values of mateship, hard yakka and fair go. AKA....bull$hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the bottler Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 it used to have values ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted July 1, 2014 Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 it used to have values ... What are the values Britain used to have, in your opinion Bottler? Did you read the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Reminds my if the last Tory speel of " Back to basics & family Values" remember that one? :laugh: While Mr Major was having it away with Mrs Currie :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Well the British used to value fairplay, justice, honour all that stuff- but I think that all disappeared sometime in the 1960s or maybe it was THAT woman Thatcher who stopped it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Maybe before 1978, now no mate getting more and more insular as is the rest of the world, as the older generation fades away only a handful of good people left who carried on with the good values thought, but they have been over taken by greed and no patience society (and thats everywhere not just britain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 It's the lefty claptrap written in the article which is the cause of many of the problems the Uk now faces. If any if the leaders from the major parties had any balls and put the UK first you wouldn't get Muslim fanatics blowing up trains, murdering people or trying to impose sharia law in schools or the government letting foreign born terrorists stay in the country because expelling them back to their own country would be against their human rights. nor would you get petty crims being pampered in prisons and not being subject to endless EU rules. I'm not a rabid UKIP supporter and still relatively young but even in my adult lifetime, the UK has gone downhill which is one if the reasons why I emmigrated. Australia and Aussie politicians are not perfect but but they do try to put Australia first, instead of selling it out and lining their own pockets. Michael Gove is an idiot but perhaps the value more than anything else that the UK needs is common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfustu Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 IMO, Michael Rosen nails it with this letter to his mate Michael Gove. British values are ‘democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, mutual respect and tolerance towards those of different faiths’, according to Michael Gove. Photograph: John Macdougall/AFP/Getty Images http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jul/01/gove-what-is-so-british-your-british-values What are 'British values' in Gove World? They sound suspiciously like those uniquely Australian values of mateship, hard yakka and fair go. AKA....bull$hit. Values or British values are something that should be passed on and learnt in the home.....with your parents and peers as teachers....this is the case for over 90% of the population.....70% christain, 15% non believers, 8% dont know.....about 90% white british.....I think this is being introduced so the remaining % can learn what our values are whilst also learning their own in their homes from their parents and peers. Our country has changed a lot since the 2nd world war and continues to change.....I personally do not see anything wrong in teaching our values in our schools to our children.....children that will raise their own families in the near future in our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 it used to have values ... some of us still do ...its called having " standards " .....not standards for other people , standards for yourself . Everything from please and thank you , to the polish on your shoes . Iam immensely proud of being English , because at one time we led the way . Just because others let their standards drop across the board , why should I ? There is a huge swathe of this country that still have the " values ".....I see it everyday ...unfortunately I also see the other side , its stark . by the way harpo , did you see the place falling apart on your recent visit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 It's the lefty claptrap written in the article which is the cause of many of the problems the Uk now faces. If any if the leaders from the major parties had any balls and put the UK first you wouldn't get Muslim fanatics blowing up trains, murdering people or trying to impose sharia law in schools or the government letting foreign born terrorists stay in the country because expelling them back to their own country would be against their human rights. nor would you get petty crims being pampered in prisons and not being subject to endless EU rules. I'm not a rabid UKIP supporter and still relatively young but even in my adult lifetime, the UK has gone downhill which is one if the reasons why I emmigrated. Australia and Aussie politicians are not perfect but but they do try to put Australia first, instead of selling it out and lining their own pockets. Michael Gove is an idiot but perhaps the value more than anything else that the UK needs is common sense. you may not see it yet , but the Australian door is ajar .......the muslim fanatics you speak of , are amongst you ....give it time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 it used to have values ... p.s there has to be some form of values ....we have over 60 million people living on an island the size of a postage stamp , which is just coming out of the worst recession in living memory ......and the place is still functioning ....that takes some doing . Somebody somewhere has " values " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 The UK is where I was born and bred, where my children were schooled. But I don't know the country it has become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 The UK is where I was born and bred, where my children were schooled. But I don't know the country it has become. In what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee13 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Just simply calling it British values in this day in is hard to define in a nutshell., just like traditionalists harking to good old days stuff...which had more of its fair share of racial and social problems than a cold cuppa with too much milk or sugar really .. not much different to the old British Australia ...but with the modern age of affordable travel the ignorant generation is more learned.. and multiculturalism has injected new values into the mix.. just like a fresh vision, paella, pad thai, laksa, kebabs... mingle with lamb chops, boiled carrot, potato, peas or....curried pie? Like it or not ...diversity breeds strength.. similarity breds contempt.. I know which type of values Id rather hold onto... despite the beat up fiction the media portrays of the now, peddling untruths to those that unfortunately believe the hype... well simply put UK is one of the more progressive societies around in Europe now. There has to be some value in that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted July 1, 2014 Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 Getting the discussion back on track, Gove's 'British values' are 'democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, mutual respect and tolerance towards those of different faiths' Are those really British values or are they 'western values', or even just common sense and decency? Indicating that they are uniquely British is quite an insult to our intelligence IMO, not to mention those living in Britain who were born elsewhere, or even those born in Britain who are of, er...non Anglo Saxon heritage. Personally I don't want to see UK governance going down the same tunnel visioned jingoistic lines of Aus/American political discourse, but what can you expect with tories, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Getting the discussion back on track, Gove's 'British values' are 'democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, mutual respect and tolerance towards those of different faiths' Are those really British values or are they 'western values', or even just common sense and decency? Indicating that they are uniquely British is quite an insult to our intelligence IMO, not to mention those living in Britain who were born elsewhere, or even those born in Britain who are of, er...non Anglo Saxon heritage. Personally I don't want to see UK governance going down the same tunnel visioned jingoistic lines of Aus/American political discourse, but what can you expect with tories, eh? I think you know the answer Harpo. IMHO, any "claim" to the values Gove states reeks of arrogance and insular thought............those values certainly don't define Brits/Britain as being unique in holding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 you may not see it yet , but the Australian door is ajar .......the muslim fanatics you speak of , are amongst you ....give it time I am sure there are some and there have been incidents in Australia similar to those in the Uk but I doubt very much that in time,the same thing will happen to the extent that it has in the UK as generally, the muslim community and many other communities have integrated into Australia much better than in the UK and Aussie politicians and the judiciary do not have such a morally relativistic view point. A number of politicians have said that the only law in Australia is Australian law and sharia law won't be allowed, even for dispute resolution, which has been allowed in the UK for business transactions or divorce settlements. This is not racist - just implementing the rule of law. Some of what Gove said about British values are not necessarily unique to the UK as others have pointed out but I dont think Gove actually said they were unique to the UK either. They are values which most British people would support. Of course there are many anomolies such as CoE Bishops having seats in the House of Lords or the Lords not being an elected legislature. The UK and Iran are the only countries in the world where religions have an official capacity in forming a legislature. Labour and the Tories do not have the balls to make the House of Lords a directly elected chamber because it is in their interests not to. There is a difference on emphasis between British "fair play" and the Aussie "fair go" but they are essentially the same thing but the main difference in attitude is that in Australia it is the newcomer that has to fit in with Aussie society and not the other way around as appears to have happened in the UK. I have had to alter some of my behaviour and attitudes very subtly, despite Australia and the Uk being very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Maybe before 1978, now no mate getting more and more insular as is the rest of the world, as the older generation fades away only a handful of good people left who carried on with the good values thought, but they have been over taken by greed and no patience society (and thats everywhere not just britain). I agree with the greed argument very strongly as witnessed it to a large extent myself. London being a prime example of how a great city can be socially engineered and transformed into something largely very different. Patience another lost virtue in much of the advanced world I'm afraid, but fall out with you on insular. UK generally far less so than when I went there as a kid. Immigration and foreign travel have opened up no end what was an incredibly insular society in past times. That's not to say large swathes appear little removed from the past, even there usually I suspect a change from forty years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 It's the lefty claptrap written in the article which is the cause of many of the problems the Uk now faces. If any if the leaders from the major parties had any balls and put the UK first you wouldn't get Muslim fanatics blowing up trains, murdering people or trying to impose sharia law in schools or the government letting foreign born terrorists stay in the country because expelling them back to their own country would be against their human rights. nor would you get petty crims being pampered in prisons and not being subject to endless EU rules. I'm not a rabid UKIP supporter and still relatively young but even in my adult lifetime, the UK has gone downhill which is one if the reasons why I emmigrated. Australia and Aussie politicians are not perfect but but they do try to put Australia first, instead of selling it out and lining their own pockets. Michael Gove is an idiot but perhaps the value more than anything else that the UK needs is common sense. Australian politicians try to put Australians first? Is that some local right wing construed argument, put over by shadowy sources to disguise the fact that government is selling the nation out without a care in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 you may not see it yet , but the Australian door is ajar .......the muslim fanatics you speak of , are amongst you ....give it time What is it with this forum and muslim fanatics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Just simply calling it British values in this day in is hard to define in a nutshell., just like traditionalists harking to good old days stuff...which had more of its fair share of racial and social problems than a cold cuppa with too much milk or sugar really .. not much different to the old British Australia ...but with the modern age of affordable travel the ignorant generation is more learned.. and multiculturalism has injected new values into the mix.. just like a fresh vision, paella, pad thai, laksa, kebabs... mingle with lamb chops, boiled carrot, potato, peas or....curried pie? Like it or not ...diversity breeds strength.. similarity breds contempt.. I know which type of values Id rather hold onto... despite the beat up fiction the media portrays of the now, peddling untruths to those that unfortunately believe the hype... well simply put UK is one of the more progressive societies around in Europe now. There has to be some value in that Well put. Strength in diversity. Open the door to the world and helps to rid a society of narrow petty differences. Britain is a far more out looking country for the main than past generations experienced. British values as I wrote on a similar thread are basically human values of decency and tolerance. Something far from unique to Britain, but something they do by and large very well. The tolerance of eccentricity in a land well known for its eccentrics around the world, of different people that have settled by and large more successfully, than many other countries, in a reasonable short period of time. Not sure why so many want to shoot that down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 some of us still do ...its called having " standards " .....not standards for other people , standards for yourself .Everything from please and thank you , to the polish on your shoes . Iam immensely proud of being English , because at one time we led the way . Just because others let their standards drop across the board , why should I ? There is a huge swathe of this country that still have the " values ".....I see it everyday ...unfortunately I also see the other side , its stark . by the way harpo , did you see the place falling apart on your recent visit ? I noticed around where we used to live that there is a lot of work needs doing to stop the place eventually "falling apart" as you say. I went a run round the area outside of Hyde the first day we were back, to get over jetlag. It's an old area, river, canal, stone walls, older buildings. A lot of the walls in particular, some of them important ones holding the canal up, looked sadly in need of repair. They spent millions a few years ago doing up the canals and locks to make in navigable again and it still is, just. A lot of the buildings have been empty for years and look on the edge of falling apart. I'm sure there are some lovely areas and it didn't seem a bit like that when we went to see my Sister in Melton Mowbray. There is just a feeling of more money round there and the place is looked after a lot better. Round where we used to live you just get the feeling that if a lot of money isn't spent soon, by the council or someone, it's going to cost many more millions to fix when a disaster happens. Even the roads were a lot worse than I remember them, obviously more crowded and I guess there isn't the money around in the local council to fix things up.:frown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 you may not see it yet , but the Australian door is ajar .......the muslim fanatics you speak of , are amongst you ....give it time There's a program on TV at the moment, "once upon a time in punchbowl" It's about the Australian Lebanese community. For the life of me I can't see why SBS puts things on like this but they seem to love controversy. I don't know why a Lebanese guy on there last week feels like he doesn't belong and doesn't know where he belongs. He's been in Aus a lot longer than me and should have integrated a lot better than he has. Maybe it's his excuse for being a thug and drug dealing most of his life, he needs something to blame. What I was impressed with in Aus when they had a massive problem with Lebanese gang (a term I'd never come across till I came to Aus btw) beating up a lifesaver at Cronulla in the first instance, which lead to massive street fights and riots around the area. I was ready for the press the next day to come out on the side of the Lebanese and say what a bunch of thugs the Aussies were who'd basically turned out in force and put the message across that this is Australia and that people had better get used to the way of life. It was odd to see the press, in general terms, be pretty supportive of the Aussies and a lot of blame was put on the Lebanese. I just got the feeling that if that sort of thing had happened in the UK then the sympathy would have gone the other way. I thought the whole episode got blown out of proportion though and there were just as many thugs and bigots from both sides in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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