457 Visa - A Warning

[VERYSTORMY]

I agree with part of the op post. I came on a 457 and would not recommend it for anyone considering Oz as a permanent move and to be very aware of it's downsides.

 

I disagree though that a 457 is first out the door. When we arrived, I did my first two week swing out bush to come home on break and here this thing called the GFC had happened and as a result my department was closed down with immediate effect. Everyone was made redundant - including my boss - except fo me and the other 457 holder. They kept us on because they knew what it meant for us if they made us redundant. We didn't have much to do and the understanding was we would be looking for jobs. I found a new one offer 6 months of searching. My colleague a month later.

 

I have since had to lay off 457 staff myself and as a result would now be very reluctant to hire someone on a 457 again. It causes issues for the employer as well as I can't ask them to go part time for 6 months to see if things pick up, like Incan with PR people. Also, having a significant number of them can be a budget issue for the return flights if they have to be laid off.

[Blewyn]

They kept us on because they knew what it meant for us if they made us redundant. We didn't have much to do and the understanding was we would be looking for jobs.

Your employer is clearly very different indeed to mine...

I have since had to lay off 457 staff myself and as a result would now be very reluctant to hire someone on a 457 again. It causes issues for the employer as well as I can't ask them to go part time for 6 months to see if things pick up, like Incan with PR people. Also, having a significant number of them can be a budget issue for the return flights if they have to be laid off.

There you have it - from the horse's mouth. A 457 counts against you on your CV. Be warned ! Visa agents will smooth-talk and say "nah mate it'll be right you'll get PR in two years" and companies will behave the same, but if your organisation has a downturn and you're out the door, you're up against Aussies and PR holders, and you have 90 days to find a job that will sponsor you for a 457, or be kicked out of the country.

 

Make your company give you PR from the start, or a written contractual commitment to sponsor you for PR after 2 years. If they refuse, there's a good risk they're not intending to keep you permanently.

[Alan Collett]

Am often puzzled why employers don't embrace sponsorship for a permanent residency visa under subclass 186 or 187 for their 457 visaholding employees - it removes the obligations that attach to sponsoring that employee.

 

Provisions to claw back the cost of the permanent residency visa can be included in the employment contract, if the employer is concerned about the employee departing quickly following the permanent visa being granted.

 

Best regards.

[Blewyn]

Am often puzzled why employers don't embrace sponsorship for a permanent residency visa under subclass 186 or 187 for their 457 visaholding employees - it removes the obligations that attach to sponsoring that employee.

 

Provisions to claw back the cost of the permanent residency visa can be included in the employment contract, if the employer is concerned about the employee departing quickly following the permanent visa being granted.

 

Best regards.

 

Interesting point. Had I been sponsored for a 186/187, I'd be in a new job with a competitor right now. Maybe that's your answer ?

[Alan Collett]

Interesting point. Had I been sponsored for a 186/187, I'd be in a new job with a competitor right now. Maybe that's your answer ?

 

And you would have had to pay back the costs of the 186/187 visa application - would that have been fair enough?

 

Best regards.

[Blewyn]

For a PR visa ? Gladly !! If I pay double can I have one now ? ;-)

[Xenon4017]

Am often puzzled why employers don't embrace sponsorship for a permanent residency visa under subclass 186 or 187 for their 457 visaholding employees - it removes the obligations that attach to sponsoring that employee.

 

I could be very wrong on this, but I think to sponsor someone for ENS you have to get the qualis recognised by VETASSESS or whichever the authority is for the particular trade. With a 457 you don't, or at least the criteria are much less stringent. And the visa application and granting process is much quicker for a 457, so if you want someone for a contract next month, you tend to go for whatever will provide the body in the shortest amount of time. I don't think many employers go down the 457 route because they want the employee over a barrel.

[wrussell]

Visa agents will smooth-talk and say "nah mate it'll be right you'll get PR in two years"

 

Do you have that (or words to that effect) in writing from a registered migration agent?

[Alan Collett]

I could be very wrong on this, but I think to sponsor someone for ENS you have to get the qualis recognised by VETASSESS or whichever the authority is for the particular trade. With a 457 you don't, or at least the criteria are much less stringent. And the visa application and granting process is much quicker for a 457, so if you want someone for a contract next month, you tend to go for whatever will provide the body in the shortest amount of time. I don't think many employers go down the 457 route because they want the employee over a barrel.

 

 

Depending on the occupation, and if the employer is in a regional area (Perth is included as "regional" in this regard) a migration skills assessment might not be needed - you would look at the 187 visa.

 

And processing times for the permanent employer sponsored visas are quick at the moment: about 6 to 8 weeks for nomination and visa application.

 

Nevertheless, I agree that the qualification thresholds are lower for securing a 457 visa.

 

Best regards.

[wrussell]

A 457 is not as a rule a recommended visa for a family because of the costs, restrictions and the temporary validity.

 

Where possible, it is sound practice to take advice about preparing to lodge an application for permanent residence at an early stage.

 

As I have advised repeatedly, it is not a good idea to rely entirely on information from prospective employers or their representatives. Take independent advice from a registered migration agent.

[Joebloggs]

 

Make your company give you PR from the start, or a written contractual commitment to sponsor you for PR after 2 years. If they refuse, there's a good risk they're not intending to keep you permanently.

 

Contract to sponsor after 2 years are useless, immigration rules & SOL lists can change and companies can be taken over or have change in management/policies.

 

Nothing is guaranteed.

[Blewyn]

Of course immigration rules and SOL lists can change, obviously the company would not be able to sponsor the PR application if the job was no longer on the list or the visa no longer existed. However, even companies that are taken over or change policy have to honour their existing contracts. They can't simply ignore a contractual obligation just because there's new management.

[Blewyn]

Nevertheless, I agree that the qualification thresholds are lower for securing a 457 visa.

 

In my case my field of expertise is so specialised that it simply does not exist on the VETASSESS register. I can't be tested because there is no tester, so they put me on a 447 under a more general role.

[Joebloggs]

However, even companies that are taken over or change policy have to honour their existing contracts. They can't simply ignore a contractual obligation just because there's new management.

 

No they don't, if there's a take over and there's a new ABN it's a different company.

 

If they decided to change management and their policy there's nothing wrong with that, you going bring them to court and make them sponsor you for PR?

[Xenon4017]

In my case my field of expertise is so specialised that it simply does not exist on the VETASSESS register. I can't be tested because there is no tester, so they put me on a 447 under a more general role.

 

They misrepresented your job description? I think you're on shaky ground. If I were you I'd keep schtumm.

[the_whites]

In my case my field of expertise is so specialised that it simply does not exist on the VETASSESS register. I can't be tested because there is no tester, so they put me on a 447 under a more general role.

 

I have been reading this thread with great interest. I came to Australia on a 457 with my eyes wide open on what it meant for me and for my family. My husband secured work immediately and we had no problem with schools, finance, or empoyers attitudes. For various reasons, we ended up back in the UK 18 months later but none of them were down to the 457 visa. We then prepared ourselves properly to return on an ENS visa as PR.

 

All I can see from Blewyn's posts is Beware Beware Beware because he has had a bad experience. But nowhere does it say what he is doing to try and change the situation. Is it easy to return to the UK blaming his ex-employer as the reason than it is to actually find a permanent visa so that he can stay? Clearly his mindset about the whole thing is focussing on the wrong issue.

 

Blewyn, if there is another visa you can apply for, then do it. Get yourself a bridging visa and if you want to stay, do something about it. Stop blaming those around you for something you should have researched thoroughly rather than relying on third parties. Things like this dont get handed to you on a plate.

[Chortlepuss]

A 457 is not as a rule a recommended visa for a family because of the costs, restrictions and the temporary validity.

 

Where possible, it is sound practice to take advice about preparing to lodge an application for permanent residence at an early stage.

 

As I have advised repeatedly, it is not a good idea to rely entirely on information from prospective employers or their representatives. Take independent advice from a registered migration agent.

 

I think 457 visas are fine for singles or couples coming out to Oz as a temporary activity, wanting to experience the country for a short while with a view to returning to their home country. I wish they wouldn't call it a visa at all - as others have said, it's a work permit that can be withdrawn at any time. I came over on a 457 sponsored by my company for PR and now hold citizenship. That was in 2007 when there were skills (and candidate) shortages in IT. Now it is a very different economic climate and if you have a safe job in the UK and especially if you have a family IMHO you'd be bonkers to consider moving to Oz on a 457. Even if you hold great skills there are a load of Australian candidates on the market.

[LKC]

I think 457 visas are fine for singles or couples coming out to Oz as a temporary activity, wanting to experience the country for a short while with a view to returning to their home country. I wish they wouldn't call it a visa at all - as others have said, it's a work permit that can be withdrawn at any time. I came over on a 457 sponsored by my company for PR and now hold citizenship. That was in 2007 when there were skills (and candidate) shortages in IT. Now it is a very different economic climate and if you have a safe job in the UK and especially if you have a family IMHO you'd be bonkers to consider moving to Oz on a 457. Even if you hold great skills there are a load of Australian candidates on the market.

 

I agree with this. We came over in 2009 on a 457 with small kids, but I don't think I would do it now. Things are very different now. My OH's job was actually removed from the CSOL and SOL a couple of months after we obtained PR, so we were cutting it fine with that, although we did always have a back-up plan so it would have been fine.

[Adam Grey]

This is the thing with the whole visa/migration process though isn't it? We can all give our own personal experiences but everything moves and changes and unless an applicant is prepared to spend lliterally days, weeks ,researching or pay a good migration agent then they may well end up surprised. Research research and more research then there should be no shocks.

 

 

This, this and this a million times. While forums are great for general advice and I'm sure everyone has the best of intentions, this "I did it, so you can to" or "It happened to me so it will happen to you" viewpoint that is seen so often is irresponsible. I've personally heard from many people who had applications rejected and lost thousands because they took advice from forums. One well respected agent who is often mentioned on here as an expert in health issues, wrote this week in a newsletter about how often he is contacted by applicants who were rejected after taking advice from forums. By all means give and get advice, but anyone who doesn't thoroughly research their own application before moving ahead or engage the services of a professional, is taking a huge leap of faith. That's not 'smooth talking', that's fact.

 

OP - You make this 'straight from the horses mouth' argument because one more experience matches your viewpoint. What about the massive Oil & Gas projects that drive the Australian economy and rely on swiftly mobilising global workers with niche skills? How about the Air-con companies in the NT who cannot expand their business because despite months of advertising they don't receive any applications from Australians? What about the overseas businesses who wish to expand their operations into Australia? Or there's that applicant who couldn't afford PR independently, or like yourself those that can't meet the skills assessment criteria (though perhaps you should seek a professional opinion on that).......The 457 is happily used by thousands of people every year. Of course it doesn't give the same residency security of a PR visa, but to give this whole "beware, beware....It's a stich up......Companies are out to get you" rant is nonsense, especially when backed up by inaccurate statements. I'd hate to think of someone giving up a good opportunity or making wild demands based on what they've read here.

[ali]

Your employer is clearly very different indeed to mine...

 

There you have it - from the horse's mouth. A 457 counts against you on your CV. Be warned ! Visa agents will smooth-talk and say "nah mate it'll be right you'll get PR in two years" and companies will behave the same, but if your organisation has a downturn and you're out the door, you're up against Aussies and PR holders, and you have 90 days to find a job that will sponsor you for a 457, or be kicked out of the country.

 

Make your company give you PR from the start, or a written contractual commitment to sponsor you for PR after 2 years. If they refuse, there's a good risk they're not intending to keep you permanently.

 

Why not apply for a PR visa independently - it isn't the responsibility of the employer to support your PR application

[Blewyn]

All I can see from Blewyn's posts is Beware Beware Beware because he has had a bad experience. But nowhere does it say what he is doing to try and change the situation. Is it easy to return to the UK blaming his ex-employer as the reason than it is to actually find a permanent visa so that he can stay? Clearly his mindset about the whole thing is focussing on the wrong issue.

 

You assume that the content of my post is all I'm focussed on. Not so. The point of the post is to warn others. It's true that I didn't fully research the 457 before coming here, but then I didn't expect to be in my current situation. My line of work isn't short-term jobs, it's a career and I never expected to be turfed out before I could achieve a PR, especially in a growing economy. Besides, as mentioned already my work is highly specialised, and doesn't exist on the SOL, so getting a different visa is tricky.

 

Just because it worked for you don't assume that if it doesn't work for others it must be their fault. As previously stated, the thing that people need to be aware of is that the 457 is presented as a short-term visa that you can take with you from employer to employer - with no suggestion that it in any way disadvantages the job applicant. The truth is that it does.

[Blewyn]

This, this and this a million times. While forums are great for general advice and I'm sure everyone has the best of intentions, this "I did it, so you can to" or "It happened to me so it will happen to you" viewpoint that is seen so often is irresponsible. I've personally heard from many people who had applications rejected and lost thousands because they took advice from forums. One well respected agent who is often mentioned on here as an expert in health issues, wrote this week in a newsletter about how often he is contacted by applicants who were rejected after taking advice from forums. By all means give and get advice, but anyone who doesn't thoroughly research their own application before moving ahead or engage the services of a professional, is taking a huge leap of faith. That's not 'smooth talking', that's fact.

 

OP - You make this 'straight from the horses mouth' argument because one more experience matches your viewpoint. What about the massive Oil & Gas projects that drive the Australian economy and rely on swiftly mobilising global workers with niche skills? How about the Air-con companies in the NT who cannot expand their business because despite months of advertising they don't receive any applications from Australians? What about the overseas businesses who wish to expand their operations into Australia? Or there's that applicant who couldn't afford PR independently, or like yourself those that can't meet the skills assessment criteria (though perhaps you should seek a professional opinion on that).......The 457 is happily used by thousands of people every year. Of course it doesn't give the same residency security of a PR visa, but to give this whole "beware, beware....It's a stich up......Companies are out to get you" rant is nonsense, especially when backed up by inaccurate statements. I'd hate to think of someone giving up a good opportunity or making wild demands based on what they've read here.

 

I make the 'straight from the horse's mouth' argument because an Australian employer said on this very thread that she would be reluctant to hire someone on a 457 visa. This aspect of the 457 - that yes your spouse can work and you can move to a new employer BUT you're NOT on a level playing field with Aussie workers - is one that is not exactly hidden, but there was NO mention of it from anyone at all. There are busy industries of course that benefit from the use of temporary international workers, but what if the company loses a contract ? You mention oil & gas projects - right now there are many Aussie workers coming back from Iraq due to the troubles there. Any 457 holder looking for work will have to compete with them....

 

I don't think that a written commitment to sponsor for PR after 2 years employment is a "wild demand". I know people who demanded PR upfront and got it (this is what I should have done). Refusal to provide such a commitment indicates that perhaps the employer's true intentions are for a temporary period of employment..

[AJ]

You assume that the content of my post is all I'm focussed on. Not so. The point of the post is to warn others. It's true that I didn't fully research the 457 before coming here, but then I didn't expect to be in my current situation. My line of work isn't short-term jobs, it's a career and I never expected to be turfed out before I could achieve a PR, especially in a growing economy. Besides, as mentioned already my work is highly specialised, and doesn't exist on the SOL, so getting a different visa is tricky.

 

Just because it worked for you don't assume that if it doesn't work for others it must be their fault. As previously stated, the thing that people need to be aware of is that the 457 is presented as a short-term visa that you can take with you from employer to employer - with no suggestion that it in any way disadvantages the job applicant. The truth is that it does.

If this is the case then I really dont think you have cause for complaint as you obtained your visa fraudulently!

 

Since your job is so specialised you obviously thought that you had it made for PR. Unfortunately by the looks of it, the company has used your skills for as long as they needed to and now no longer require. No one however skilled is indispensible. That is what a 457 visa is for. Also it was your wifes choice to spend so much trying to get qualified for a job when you were only here on a work permit

[DeeTowers]

 

I make the 'straight from the horse's mouth' argument because an Australian employer said on this very thread that she would be reluctant to hire someone on a 457 visa. This aspect of the 457 - that yes your spouse can work and you can move to a new employer BUT you're NOT on a level playing field with Aussie workers - is one that is not exactly hidden, but there was NO mention of it from anyone at all. There are busy industries of course that benefit from the use of temporary international workers, but what if the company loses a contract ? You mention oil & gas projects - right now there are many Aussie workers coming back from Iraq due to the troubles there. Any 457 holder looking for work will have to compete with them....I don't think that a written commitment to sponsor for PR after 2 years employment is a "wild demand". I know people who demanded PR upfront and got it (this is what I should have done). Refusal to provide such a commitment indicates that perhaps the employer's true intentions are for a temporary period of employment..

It is your responsibility to research the visa and not just take the opinion of one source, in this case your employer. My husband and I are on our 3rd 457 due to redundancy on both sides, the last one was mine and we were 1 month from making a residency application which sucks!!! However we fully researched everything before we left the UK 3 years ago and knew the risks - it is temporary, its not guaranteed and we sought the advice of experts outside of the company that sponsored us for the 1st 457 - We came here with our eyes open, with all the facts but could not wait for the experience!!Yes we want to have PR but fully respect what the 457 Is for and are living proof that redundancy does not always mean you have to go back to the UK, however we left most of our lives in tact in the UK and rented out our house, stored our cars and possessions so that if we do loose our TEMPORARY visa we could go back to live our lives where we left off albeit looking for new jobs but we fully understood it is temporary, anything can happen and to enjoy it while it lasts! 3 years and 3 457's later we are still here - Australian companies will and do take on new 457's and their spouses but yes of course they should employ an Australian over a foreign temporary worker, if I was still in the UK that is what I would expect - UK jobs for UK citizens and the same for Australia - look after your own first.

[Blewyn]

If this is the case then I really dont think you have cause for complaint as you obtained your visa fraudulently!

No, it was obtained legitimately under a job heading which covers my area of expertise, but is too general for me to be able to qualify on a skills/points basis.

 

Since your job is so specialised you obviously thought that you had it made for PR.

 

I absolutely did ! In fact I was assured by my employer (verbally) that they would sponsor me for it.

 

Unfortunately by the looks of it, the company has used your skills for as long as they needed to and now no longer require. No one however skilled is indispensible. That is what a 457 visa is for. Also it was your wifes choice to spend so much trying to get qualified for a job when you were only here on a work permit

Apparently it's a visa not just a work permit :-). Not sure why you're lecturing me about this and pointing the finger when I'm posting a warning to people thinking of coming here on a 457. It's only right that they should be aware of the risks, no ?