Undecided on what is best for us

[Tappers2oz]

If I knew I wanted another child and Oz would probably take away that chance, I wouldn't even be thinking about moving there.

Personally the decision to move (and pretty much forgo any more kids that were a possibility in the uk) would eat me up inside and I couldn't do it.

[Chortlepuss]

If you live in the sticks in Brisbane (Northlakes etc) don't underestimate commuting time and the sheer dullness of suburban living. $75k is average wage and sounds a lot but my hubby is on $80k and when I don't work we can just scrape by on a baked beans lifestyle. Two teenage kids. All the sunshine doesn't compensate for being skint - we have always been relatively well off in the UK. Luckily my occassional contract work means we can afford medical bills for our kids (e.g 1.5k out of pocket expenses for one teen to have wisdom teeth removed). Living on a full time income of $75k would be a constant battle. I'd recommend Oz to young single backpackers/explorers and ambitious young people without families who can easily realise salaries in the $ 100-150k+ range. It's a beautiful place to be with many opportunities but if you have a comfortable life in the UK I can't see the benefits of moving here. Certainly not worth missing out on a second child for.

[VERYSTORMY]

I think you are missing the important question.

 

Why do you want to move to Oz?

 

From what you have posted, you would probably be in a worse lifestyle - house maybe not so nice, not in such a good area and things. So, we do you want to give up what you have now?

[Keefo]

If you live in the sticks in Brisbane (Northlakes etc) don't underestimate commuting time and the sheer dullness of suburban living. $75k is average wage and sounds a lot but my hubby is on $80k and when I don't work we can just scrape by on a baked beans lifestyle. Two teenage kids. All the sunshine doesn't compensate for being skint - we have always been relatively well off in the UK. Luckily my occassional contract work means we can afford medical bills for our kids (e.g 1.5k out of pocket expenses for one teen to have wisdom teeth removed). Living on a full time income of $75k would be a constant battle. I'd recommend Oz to young single backpackers/explorers and ambitious young people without families who can easily realise salaries in the $ 100-150k+ range. It's a beautiful place to be with many opportunities but if you have a comfortable life in the UK I can't see the benefits of moving here. Certainly not worth missing out on a second child for.

 

Don't any of your medical insurance cover things such as wisdom teeth.

[Keefo]

If another child is part of your "dream" and you could afford one here but not there then stay. One first world country is going to be much like any other - similar opportunities, similar problems. People before places I reckon. The problem with budgets is that things pop up to muck them up (you haven't factored in trips back to UK to see the family for example) and living on a tight budget is very uncomfortable! If your budget now allows you the occasional trip to Aus (more generous holidays in UK) then that's a bonus which you probably wouldn't get in reverse. Remember that living somewhere is quite different to a holiday.

 

This is the breakdown in dollars of a friend living in Perth, Married with two children 10 & 13 and on $75k P/A........He has said it's the best thing he ever did.

 

They have around 1200 left at months end

 

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[TD=class: xl63, width: 201, bgcolor: transparent]Electricity - 100

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Gas - 70

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Water - 30

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Rent - 2000

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Food - 600

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Mobile x2 - 180

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Contents Insurance - 12.50

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Land Line - 60

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Health Insurance - 80

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Internet - 60

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Petrol - 200

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[TD=class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent]Car Insurance - 75

 

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[jac2011]

I know everyone is quoting mobile contracts too, but surely it would be beneficial initially to take existing phones out there and buy sim cards? 2 mobiles is a hell of a chunk of your outgoings!

 

Also, do you really need 2 cars? Its not like it rains all the time. I know it depends on location etc and distance from school but where there is a will there is a way!

 

Have you calculated family benefits?

[RNB31]

Hi,

 

Yeah we have calculated family benefits, do we need 2 cars? I'd say yeah we need 2 in the UK. Due to staying further out I would want my wife to have one for when she is off and commute to train station or work as well as the school run. For me well that depends on where I work and staying further out I guess I'll have a commute either to trainstation or to work, the only way this would be a no is if I was close to a station or company van, again it has to be factored in, these will be bought outright with cash so the saving would be $200 a month and maybe a bit on fuel.

 

Keefo if I had $75k a year then we'd manage but my wife would still have to do some part time hrs to top up the savings and hol fund, I looked at your budget form your friend and no way we could spend $600 a month on food, for family of 4 we'd be up too about $1000-1200, my budget is what it is i have taken it form our uk spend, research on forums and websites and speaking to some people we know over in oz, I am not saying its spot on but I think its there or there abouts as QUOLL said budgets are just that and other things creep up, we are thin on the budget.

 

The dulness of living further out has also played on my mind as CHORTLEPUSS has stated, but again if this is to be at all possible then it has to be there for affordability.

 

VERYSTORMEY why do i want to go to oz? For a different way of living, an adventure, to do something with my life, to have more sunshine. I know I have travelling oz and been on another 3.5 week hol there but I just love it, i love it because its somewhere else other than home, yes we travelled but only 3 months, the other 9 months we had a flat, paid bills, shopped and went to work mon-fri full time, so I know its not the same as living there and we were only travelling but it still gave us some sense of what living there was like to an extend. It's just been something I've wanted to do since is far back as I can remember, I had a great up bringing in the UK but I just felt oz would have maybe gave just a little bit more, i dont do the grass is always greener, and oz has its problems the same as the uk. There is for and against for them both

 

I have no idea how we will decide but this is all great thoughts and feedback and thanks to everyone, would still love to hear form more.

 

To sum things up we either need to accept childcare before and after school something I am prepared to look into, but 8 out of 12 week holiday care is not something I can come round too, giving up a 2nd kid, going against what we said regarding before and after care and living on the line, one more thing to go against and where does it end. In short I simply need to bring home more cash for this to work.

 

Life in the UK is not ideal but we have money behind us, we can save, we can go on hols, we can put away for pension and look to buy property down the line, we can have a 2nd BUT the dream of moving to oz is still firing away inside me.

 

Basically our montly spend is $5889, between me on 60k and my wife 12hrs a week at $25ph local part time we would bring in $5309, after adding benefits and £180 uk income and taking off 2 days hols care for 12 weeks of the year we are in green by about $175...I believe some of that $175 would get used up on the other things that crop up likes things not covered in your health insurance, birthday parties our kid would attend the things you dont think about, then there is my wifes pension on those hrs we would need to factor money away. If she works an extra 10 hrs a week during term time then the money in the green goes from $175 too $430 which is more attractive allows for an overflow and some savings but hols mmmm not sure, but we are relaying on her getting a perm part time job 2 days a week 12 hrs, and then a further 10 hrs only during term time, its alot to hope for! But even after this we couldn't afford a 2nd on that money

 

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[Quoll]

Gosh Keefo - that budget looks very odd to me! 12.50 a month for contents insurance? 600 a month for food for 4 including teenagers? and most private health funds are going to slug you $250 baseline. I don't doubt that's what your friend has reported but they would be some uncomfortable economies I would think.

[VERYSTORMY]

I am sorry, but, i still dont see it.

 

To me, yes, it would be a "different life" for you all. But not necessarily a better one. On your figures and how you have described your current life, i think you would be significantly worse off.

 

Also, do not count on recieving any benefits - the government have already announced they will be a major reduction in benefits for those in work.

[Katie22]

Try not to plan your life too much. Just 2 weeks after we arrived in Australia, my husband suffered a work injury and was unable physically to work for 6 months - all our plans went right out the window. Life can be very unpredictable. If you come over with lots of expectations then it might be hard for Australia to live up to them, especially if your life in UK ain't that bad as you could constantly be comparing. Maybe just plan to come over for a year or 2 or long enough to get citizenship & don't sell your house so if it doesn't work out it'll be easier to return, if it does then you can eventually sell up. Just suggestions of course!

[RNB31]

VERYSTORMY - I am just gutted that what I have dreamed about for years is now fading away, I never expected to go to oz and have the rose tinted glasses on, and expect to have more than I did in the UK. I just hoped my salary exceptions were going to be more, and when you actually sit down and do the workings and look at the child situation you try to do anything to still make that dream possible. I am clinging to hope now that I find a way of making it work but the simple fact is that on those figures I can't. Living further out in the suburbs doesn't concern me too much but only if I had the spare cash for making that compromise.

 

Katie22 - good post and i know we cant plan too far ahead but the dream is to go there and make it happen, to be honest coming back within 6 months or 2 year is not an option, the amount of money put in and how difficult it would be to find new jobs and starting over again in the uk after doing it in oz would be too much money, where we are property is expensive and we need a good bit of cash behind us.

 

Also regarding the benefits, I always said these would be the extra income to top up hol fund or something, and I wouldnt want to depend on them but again its something I've had to look at and go well we need to include them, and yes if they were reduced or taken away which they could be then we would be in the red.

 

I go back to what I said at the start that I couldnt live like this is the uk with me working full time and my wife doing the hrs that I have suggested for oz so why could I do it in Oz, if I did do it in the uk I'd have no savings and no hols and would have to lower my supermarket shop and standard of living.

 

I think if I was getting $70 min then this could be more realistic, with my wife still doing some part time and inc some after school care 3 days a week and in hols, but on what I am seeing at $60 is just too low.

 

I say i dont know how i'll decide but I think the decision is made, the figures dont lie

[jac2011]

Would it be possible for you and your family to go out there with your child and see what the life is like? See if it is still the dream you both share? Speak to employers? Look at other career options for your wife whilst your children are young? Perhaps child minding, working in a school admin office? We all have to make sacrifices, its just deciding which ones are right for your family.

 

Perhaps after a holiday there, that 'itch' so to speak may be dealt with and you can all get on with your life in the UK. Or, you could fall in love all over again, and realise that a few sacrifices are worth making.

 

Just one more thing, I note your comments on the food budget. Since I learnt to do food plans in order to save the maximum we can in the UK we are now surviving as a family of 5 on £65 a week. The most shocking thing for us, is that we are now eating more healthy, are spending less on takeaways (had our first in a month last night and didn't even enjoy it). We buy local and support the local businesses. It has become our weekend routine rather than expensive family days out. Whilst its a different way of life to what we would do by choice, its surprisingly satisfying. We are hoping that this will continue in Australia, whilst we know it will be expensive, by meal planning and making the right choices we have set a budget of $200 a week for 5 of us. You can do online shops to test the water. We don't eat meat every day now, we have vegetarian meals a few times a week and we have nice portion sizes. We slow cook food which usually tends to be healthier and far tastier.

 

Again, these were the sacrifices we were prepared to take. I saw flights to Florida for £1200 yesterday for the 5 of us, I was so tempted with the money sat in our bank. But, I knew deep down our future lied in Australia. I know sacrifices have to be made.

[starlight7]

Don't overthink things too much- if you want to come,just do it. Things have a way of working out so long as you really want them to.

[RNB31]

jac2011 - We were only there 2 year ago for 3.5 weeks so another visit I don't feel is required and is just more cost onto the migration costs already. Good suggestion tho.

 

Regarding food budget I also do a meal planner to save as much as I can and only buy what we need, I also buy local ( I care about where my meat comes form) and supermarket, and my uk shop in the uk for 3 of us for food (breakfast, lunches, dinners, some snacks like fruit, not sweets or chocs), toiletries and cleaning products is about £100-120 a week. We dont really do takeaways but if we do its because we are staying in so take it off spend money. I use mysupermarket to make sure I get the best price on most things especially cupboard stables, toiletries and cleaning products. We never buy frozen foods (with the exception of some veg) or pre made meals that you heat up. We eat mainly pasta meals, or something with rice, or mince dishes or stews...steak is a luxury now and again but would rather go out for a steak.

 

 

We did an online shop for oz with what we would buy in the uk and this is where my $1000 a month came form as well as some other research, I was buying offers as I always do in the uk, and going for some mid range stuff.

 

 

 

I have tried to reduce this but this is buying what we need and incls no luxury or alcohol in this budget

 

starlight7 - out of interest do you have kids? I used to think like that but now the figures have to weight up, I have to see salaries at what I need, there will always be risks but you need to research to at least lower those risks the best you can. It would be so irresponsible of me to just go things have a way of working themselves out, spend £34k moving my wife and kid out for it all to fall apart on those figures.

[Guest]

Sometimes dreams are best kept as that and part of growing up is knowing which dreams to pursue - not suggesting you are immature, I am definitely a work in progress at 47

 

I haven't read all the replies but my thoughts reading your post was you stated many ways in which life would not be any better in Australia (& you have a very realistic view, probably based on living there previously for 9 months) and ways in which it could potentially be worse but no convincing reason to go.

 

People have lots of dreams - my OH still dreams of being a rock star at 48 - but do you give up a good life to pursue them? I guess that's the question you are struggling with.

 

If moving to Australia means you and your wife have to work full-time and you don't in the UK then I honestly would stop there and think no more about it.

 

Yes, of course you can both work full-time, that was my life since my son was 6 months old, we managed with day care until he started school and then the fun really started! Actually it is probably why we moved to Australia when he was 5. We managed through flexible working arrangements, a nanny and then Aupairs but it was 'managing' - we had one summer holiday where we rented a cabin and my OH went for the first half of the week and I went for the second because taking leave off together was too much of a luxury!

 

I would decide on the kind of lifestyle you want first and then work out which country (including where in which country) will provide the best match - for us after five years in Australia we have moved back, we are both self-employed now and work from home most of the time and life could not be better. We have just had an offer accepted on a house but our mortgage will be a fraction of our mortgage in Australia and our income is higher.

 

Do I miss the sunshine? The odd day when it hasn't stopped raining maybe but then it turned out I hated the heat of summer anyway - you'll know how you feel about that already if you've lived there already, although you didn't have bairns to protect from it back then!

 

Best of luck with your decision, there is no right or wrong one and nothing is forever!

[RNB31]

Lady Rainicorn - some very wise word there

 

To all - I just redone the sums for both of us working full time, full time before and aftercare school, plus full time holiday care 8 weeks of the year. The figure I am left with includes child benefit and rebate on the before and after school care but not the hols care, but includes the full price hol care over the year and is based on same budget already added in an earlier post my £180 uk income, this is 1 child and a month we would be in the green by $2k

 

2 kids and this would decrease too $1.2k in the green

 

I know for one my wife will not come around too full time before, after and hol care so I redone the sums for 3 days full time before, after, and hol care and adjusted my wifes sally to 3 days a week full time hrs, 2 kids and we are in the green $450 which is too low in my eyes, and is in green due too benefits and uk income

[Rupert]

Lady Rainicorn - some very wise word there

 

To all - I just redone the sums for both of us working full time, full time before and aftercare school, plus full time holiday care 8 weeks of the year. The figure I am left with includes child benefit and rebate on the before and after school care but not the hols care, but includes the full price hol care over the year and is based on same budget already added in an earlier post my £180 uk income, this is 1 child and a month we would be in the green by $2k

 

2 kids and this would decrease too $1.2k in the green

 

I know for one my wife will not come around too full time before, after and hol care so I redone the sums for 3 days full time before, after, and hol care and adjusted my wifes sally to 3 days a week full time hrs, 2 kids and we are in the green $450 which is too low in my eyes, and is in green due too benefits and uk income

 

Agree was good post by LR. I also think that this is maybe a dream to retire, my OH dreams of being a premier league football player, definitely won't happen as he is 40 now but he is coming to terms with it. Don't be tempted to fudge the numbers to make this work, you seem like a very thoughtful person who has carefully considered and concluded that it won't work for you.

 

Everything you have said seems sound to me and as far as I can tell you will live a more comfortable life and be able to have the family you want only in the UK.

[jac2011]

Only you will know what's best for your family and I am sure you are figuring your own path from this forum.

 

On the flip, I have been catching up with Ross Kemp's Extreme World and it makes you realise how lucky we are to live in the UK or Australia. It really made me reassess how lucky we were.

 

I'm sure things will work out when they are ready. I cant remember if you said age was a factor at the moment, but perhaps the time is just not right now. Iv had to wait 6 years and have retrained. I could have gone prior to this but I would never have been comfortable or happy. Its been worth the wait.

 

PS I am shocked at your food budget! We always have cupboards full of food and our £65 allows for packed lunches, treats etc. £100 would be pure luxury! Although, I do admit I buy a box of wine per month out of the spends budget on top of this. We give ourselves £55 a week between 5 of us for things like coffee, wine, days out, chocolate. We have had to do this and be strict because when I have access to my bank account I could spend £1k sat at home on the internet in 5 mins lol!

 

Good Luck

[RNB31]

Rupert - Thanks, dont worry I wont fudge the numbers, the number are key

 

Jac2011 - Yes agree we are lucky, I used to really slate the UK but I dont have a bad standard here, if only we could change the whether during the summer, I'll take the wind, rain and snow as long as you get a good summer of 4 months heat. I have tried to cut the food bill but I simply cant, I try every month and it stays the same, I've ask friends and family and there about the same, apart form the ones who are just couples and no kids and they are less...maybe PM me a weekly meal planner and I'll test it out see if I can reduce :-)

 

OK going to start a new question, prob better starting a new post but hear goes for now, so who uses before, after school care and hols care? Do you like it? Do you feel guilty? What do your kids do? Do they enjoy it? Do most of their friends go?

 

Its not that we have been against it, its just something we never did as a kid, well actually for a couple of months I remember I had to go to a childminders house in the mornings for an hour or so and I hated it, hated not having my breakfast in my house. I never went to care during the hols, just played with firends and went to some clubs with them but not all day ones. The thought of sending my kid to before care at like 7am or 730am just doesn't sit well, we would both feel some guilt I think, and after school care not picking him up till 5pm, thats a long day when he might just want to come home and play in house or with friends when school is out at 2.45pm. I know from this forum people have used it, are using it now through their own choice or some who are single parent who has no other choice so would like to hear from more people who have or are using it, or why you don't use it.

 

Its something we may have to consider so would be most grateful for some feedback

[Gbye grey sky]

OK going to start a new question, prob better starting a new post but hear goes for now, so who uses before, after school care and hols care? Do you like it? Do you feel guilty? What do your kids do? Do they enjoy it? Do most of their friends go?

 

Its not that we have been against it, its just something we never did as a kid, well actually for a couple of months I remember I had to go to a childminders house in the mornings for an hour or so and I hated it, hated not having my breakfast in my house. I never went to care during the hols, just played with firends and went to some clubs with them but not all day ones. The thought of sending my kid to before care at like 7am or 730am just doesn't sit well, we would both feel some guilt I think, and after school care not picking him up till 5pm, thats a long day when he might just want to come home and play in house or with friends when school is out at 2.45pm. I know from this forum people have used it, are using it now through their own choice or some who are single parent who has no other choice so would like to hear from more people who have or are using it, or why you don't use it.

 

Its something we may have to consider so would be most grateful for some feedback

 

See my post earlier in the thread. Honestly if you are going to feel guilty for doing this then my advice is don't do it if you don't need to. If you feel guilty kids pick up on it and use it against you too.

[MovingtoTasmania]

See my post earlier in the thread. Honestly if you are going to feel guilty for doing this then my advice is don't do it if you don't need to. If you feel guilty kids pick up on it and use it against you too.

 

I totally agree with this but mine went to childminders and before/after school clubs and I personally preferred the out of school clubs rather then the minder but that's a personal choice. Don't forget too, that OSC's now do many planned activities and keep the children busy and entertained. It may be that if you find an OSC that is linked to the school, your child might prefer having extended days to play with friends etc.

[Guest]

 

OK going to start a new question, prob better starting a new post but hear goes for now, so who uses before, after school care and hols care? Do you like it? Do you feel guilty? What do your kids do? Do they enjoy it? Do most of their friends go?

 

Its not that we have been against it, its just something we never did as a kid, well actually for a couple of months I remember I had to go to a childminders house in the mornings for an hour or so and I hated it, hated not having my breakfast in my house. I never went to care during the hols, just played with firends and went to some clubs with them but not all day ones. The thought of sending my kid to before care at like 7am or 730am just doesn't sit well, we would both feel some guilt I think, and after school care not picking him up till 5pm, thats a long day when he might just want to come home and play in house or with friends when school is out at 2.45pm. I know from this forum people have used it, are using it now through their own choice or some who are single parent who has no other choice so would like to hear from more people who have or are using it, or why you don't use it.

 

Its something we may have to consider so would be most grateful for some feedback

 

When our son was born we made a decision that I would be a full time SAHM mum for at least the first 2 years of his life. After that, depending on how things were going etc, I would either return to work part time or full time. As it turned out, it was another 6 months after this before I returned to work, son was 2.5 years old and I only worked 15 hours a week. However, since he was 9 months old (for reasons I don't wish to elaborate on here) he was attedning a childminder one full day a week, even though I wasn't actually working. He loved going to her house, mixing with the other kids, was always happy when I picked him up and I never had any qualms about leaving him there. We did this till he started nursery/pre school and attended that for the 15 hours a week (5 mornings Mon-Fri).

 

We've never used out of hours school care. I still only work part time and am there to drop him to school and collect every day. That is personal choice on how I've scheduled my work though. I still squish in a lot of hours worked during school time each week. I am self employed so also work in the evenings if needed once his Dad is around to take over.

 

FWIW, I've known many children in some form of daycare over my working life and honestly, pretty much every single one was happy and fine with it. Its fun, different, often their friends are there too, they get snacks and stuff and its no more adding to their day than going home and hanging out or heading to the park. The kids at my sons after school care can use the play equipment, the oval, the sports stuff and more or just go chill out in the rooms and do something quieter. Its your perception of it more I think and your memories. Chances are those won't be your childs but you won't know this till you try it will you? Loads of kids do the before school care at my sons school and they have breakfast all together in the hall. They all seem very happy to be hanging with their mates and scoffing toast or cereal. If its something your child does from the get go when starting school then its part of the routine to their school life. You got pulled out of your routine for a couple of months when you were set in your ways I'd think. And a childminder isn't going to perhaps have you seeing your school mates whereas breakfast club at school or before school care would. My son can't wait to get to school most days as he wants to see his friends and trying to prise him away after when he just wants to run around and play with some of them, well, yeah. Its a social aspect he loves and I let him have a bit of time a few days a week after school to do this. I am also planning on making use of the after school care from next school year as I wish to work more and don't want to keep having to cut my day short when I have more work coming in I could take on. My son will be 6 then and honestly, he can't wait for it to happen a few days a week.

 

Guilt - I'd stop beating yourself up about it. As I said, your experience for a couple of months at a chilldminder is most likely going to be very different from your childs experience if you let them try it. Out of hours school care is enjoyed by many and sure, there will be some (and I say this having not ever met a child who said they hated it full stop and I've worked with lots of kids) won't like it or might not want to go on occasion. But given I see at least half a dozen kids aged 4-5 heading to it daily when I collect my son and they are all zooming over and excited to be with friends etc, I don't think its a long term negative they are having. An off day or a sad day or something sometimes yes, but as an every day feeling about it, not really happening.

[helenccc]

Just a thought have you thought about having an au pair? I am a single parent in Perth of a 4 year old and a teenager. I work shift work and also have recently started my own business so really stretched with working hours at the moment. Having an au pair is the only way I can manage my children with school drop offs, after school activities etc. It is so affordable and and flexible and all you need is an extra bedroom. I pay $150 a week for 25 hours with bed and board.

[RNB31]

Thanks again for all the replies

 

Firstly I had thought about something like an au pair but not sure I'd be keen on someone else living with us to be honest.

 

Our boy in the UK currently goes to nursery, is looked after by grandparents and my wife is off every friday, so he has a mix and he loves going to nursery and he also comes back happy so I am happy to consider the after and before school care but just not full time, prob looking at 3 days a week I could live with that if it needed to be, I could prob even push 4 days, but my main problem is the school hols and full time vacation care. I have always said 2 days a week of vacation care would be my limit but have considered 3 but honestly couldn't push to more.

 

I don't doubt that he will enjoy this for one min.

 

Does anyone else have any solutions to school hols other than vacation care, can you get similar to an au pair over the hols, like a student nanny that doesn't necessary live with you but would cover the day hrs required?

[Guest]

We had a nanny in school hols, it didn't come cheap at $25 an hour though.