Heart says London. Head says Australia. But things are changing. What do you think?

[Perthbum]

I don't know if it's of any help but I thought I'd share the history of some of my mates from SA.

 

I've got five SA mates (ten if you count their partners) who all moved to the UK for a better life.

 

One moved to the UK, then back to his place in Stellenbosch, then back to the UK again as he missed his career in the city, the people, weather (believe it or not), and culture. He's now settled and happy in the UK.

 

One guy (Val) lived in Durban and moved to the UK and never wants to live anywhere else. He absolutely loves it for the same reason as my Stellenbosch mate.

 

Three of them moved to the UK and enjoyed everything it had to offer for a number of years, before moving to "big countries with big skies". One is now in Texas and the other two are in Australia (Perth and rural NSW). They all loved SA but all moved for the same reason, safety and wanted a better life for their families. And they all had great qualifications that opened up the world in opportunities.

 

My mate in rural NSW is loving it and will never leave, however, he admitted that he would never have got a decent Civil Engineers position in Australia had he not worked on Heathrow's Terminal 5 and had that on his Resume. This was due to it being a mahoosive project with worldwide exposure.

 

My mate in Tx worked in the city for a few years and there is no way would ever have got there without it on his Resume. My mate in perth actually had a better career in the UK, but hated the weather so he's happy taking a step back in his career for a while.

 

None of my mates ever regretted moving to the UK and they all massively enhanced their career prospects by doing so as the UK has an outstanding Kudos within the international business community.

 

Their field of specialty ranged from IT networks, Commodities Trader, civil Engineer x 2, and Chartered Accountant.

hope they all make their own biltong......it's easy, miss smoked Snoek though.

[jasepom]

Having been to all the counties you mention I think Australia is very simlilar to South Africa in terms of lifestyle. You get the heritage in London but that wears off after a while. Having been living in Australia you get used to the space and perhaps you could travel to London when you have holiday leave.

[fish.01]

....It's great to hear that there are other South Africans who WOULD choose the UK, despite (or even because of, in the case of your Stellenbosch friend) the weather

 

I would have thought that was a given Mr Moose? A whole nation of people like S.A. is going to have plenty of people who prefer all sorts of locations I would have thought...even down to a preference for London or Edinburgh or whatever ? Personally I think where in a country you make your life can almost be as important as which country. Australia has many different lifestyles and types of people as does the UK. It is quite easy to pick the right country but the wrong location imo. In many ways particular places and people in both countries have more in common with their equivalents in the other country.

[Lambethlad]

Don't think anyone in Oz would have heard of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs Pyramid or self-actualisation. I thought about googling them but it all sounds a bit high-brow for this old cockney aussie. Good luck.

[Guest]

hope they all make their own biltong......it's easy, miss smoked Snoek though.

 

Christmas dinner 2004 - snoek cooked on the braai

 

Anyone looking for biltong in Perth should speak to the chef at Wild Poppy in South Freo.

[3FatCats]

[TheGreatDane]

Depends how old you are and what you do.

 

If you want to have a lot of fun and piss a lot of dough up against the wall then the UK is great for that.

 

Oz great for outdoorsy stuff and high quality living.

 

You can find yourself out of work in even the most buoyant of economies if you don't have the right skills and experience.

[Guest]

Depends how old you are and what you do.

 

If you want to have a lot of fun and piss a lot of dough up against the wall then the UK is great for that.

 

Oz great for outdoorsy stuff and high quality living.

 

You can find yourself out of work in even the most buoyant of economies if you don't have the right skills and experience.

 

I think fish gets it right when they say it depends where in the UK you are - live in Melbourne, Sydney or Perth and you are living in some of the most expensive places in the world and take the beach/sea out of the equation and I found Perth and surrounds to be woeful for outdoorsy stuff.

 

If you were comparing London to the Blue Mountains, NSW you might be right but for me comparing Scotland to Perth I would say the absolute opposite is true.

 

I think it's something we all forget - our experience of a country is based on where we live in that country - Australia is vast & although much smaller the UK is incredibly diverse.

[starlight7]

I think you need to go to London first for a few years and when you get sick of it- Australia. Not the other way round.

[flag of convenience]

London first definitely and take it from there. There are plenty of opportunities in other areas of UK or even in Europe.

[Londongal76]

Ah I lived in Cape Town for a year and loved it, would've moved there if getting a visa hadn't been so difficult and there hadn't been affirmative action.

 

A couple of my saffa friends in London have been here for about 10 years and gone back now to settle down although one is struggling to find work over there massively. 3 or 4 have remained here as they see no future there for themselves and their kids there so have made the UK their home. They all cope just fine with life here and of course holidays home are ridiculously cheap.

[Guest spreadingwings]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23407[/ATTACH]

 

HAHAHA. Love this

 

I think you need to go to London first for a few years and when you get sick of it- Australia. Not the other way round.

 

London first definitely and take it from there. There are plenty of opportunities in other areas of UK or even in Europe.

 

Yeah, I think that's a good plan. Well, the first stop at least

 

Ah I lived in Cape Town for a year and loved it, would've moved there if getting a visa hadn't been so difficult and there hadn't been affirmative action.

 

A couple of my saffa friends in London have been here for about 10 years and gone back now to settle down although one is struggling to find work over there massively. 3 or 4 have remained here as they see no future there for themselves and their kids there so have made the UK their home. They all cope just fine with life here and of course holidays home are ridiculously cheap.

 

Great to hear, and glad you liked the city. It is a special and beautiful place, but limited in many ways if you're looking to experience the big wide world and work for the world's biggest brands.

[TheGreatDane]

I think you need to go to London first for a few years and when you get sick of it- Australia. Not the other way round.

 

Absolutely. Moving to Oz after London would then be an upgrade.

[Guest spreadingwings]

Absolutely. Moving to Oz after London would then be an upgrade.

 

Really??

[Londongal76]

Really??

 

 

In quality of life terms, probably. London is great, don't get me wrong, I love it. Going into the city on a sunny day over the bridges or along the embankment in a taxi is irreplacable for awesomeness. For blue chip work it's brilliant, no better place to be apart from maybe Silicon Valley in the US, and for the first few years it's non stop party, drinks, nights out, sightseeing etc. Then you realise actually, although the work is great and pays really well, you're working 50-60 hours a week and not seeing your friends and family as much. It's not so great walking along fume infested roads to the tube every day. The potholes are bloody annoying, the pavements are dirty, the tube whilst fantastic is frustrating after the novelty wears off (along with other peoples armpits) and that fresh air and beaches and not working endless hours of your life away are calling.

 

But the first few years rock. Some never tire of it.

[Guest spreadingwings]

In quality of life terms, probably. London is great, don't get me wrong, I love it. Going into the city on a sunny day over the bridges or along the embankment in a taxi is irreplacable for awesomeness. For blue chip work it's brilliant, no better place to be apart from maybe Silicon Valley in the US, and for the first few years it's non stop party, drinks, nights out, sightseeing etc. Then you realise actually, although the work is great and pays really well, you're working 50-60 hours a week and not seeing your friends and family as much. It's not so great walking along fume infested roads to the tube every day. The potholes are bloody annoying, the pavements are dirty, the tube whilst fantastic is frustrating after the novelty wears off (along with other peoples armpits) and that fresh air and beaches and not working endless hours of your life away are calling.

 

But the first few years rock. Some never tire of it.

 

I think this is possibly true, but probably more so for people who are from the UK originally than those who have grown up outside of a first world country. I think it's about finding out which country suits you best at any one point in time, and living the pros to the max.

[tea4too]

You seem to have the ability to focus on what matters, while seeing trivial stuff for what it is, and on that basis I think you will be fine wherever you go mrmoose. But fwiw, I would also advise along the lines of ‘go with your heart.‘ Life has a funny way of twisting and turning, throwing up curved balls and pushing us down paths we didn’t expect or plan to go. So maybe deal with what you know, rather than over think it. And if deep down you know where you really want to be, isn’t that a great place to begin the next chapter of your life? All the best. Tx

[Guest spreadingwings]

You seem to have the ability to focus on what matters, while seeing trivial stuff for what it is, and on that basis I think you will be fine wherever you go mrmoose. But fwiw, I would also advise along the lines of ‘go with your heart.‘ Life has a funny way of twisting and turning, throwing up curved balls and pushing us down paths we didn’t expect or plan to go. So maybe deal with what you know, rather than over think it. And if deep down you know where you really want to be, isn’t that a great place to begin the next chapter of your life? All the best. Tx

 

Thanks for the really insightful reply. I think you're absolutely right. Heart first, and if it doesn't work out, then head can take over and put plan B into action. But if it does work out, how amazing would that be Thanks again for the encouragement. I think I'll take a screenshot or two from this thread and stick it in a scrapbook I'm creating for whatever comes next!

[TheGreatDane]

In quality of life terms, probably. London is great, don't get me wrong, I love it. Going into the city on a sunny day over the bridges or along the embankment in a taxi is irreplacable for awesomeness. For blue chip work it's brilliant, no better place to be apart from maybe Silicon Valley in the US, and for the first few years it's non stop party, drinks, nights out, sightseeing etc. Then you realise actually, although the work is great and pays really well, you're working 50-60 hours a week and not seeing your friends and family as much. It's not so great walking along fume infested roads to the tube every day. The potholes are bloody annoying, the pavements are dirty, the tube whilst fantastic is frustrating after the novelty wears off (along with other peoples armpits) and that fresh air and beaches and not working endless hours of your life away are calling.

 

But the first few years rock. Some never tire of it.

 

^ this pretty much sums up why we're leaving London. And London is too crowded.

 

Upgrading to fresh air, fine scenery, open spaces.

[Katie22]

Follow your heart as life doesn't always work out as we plan it to. I followed my head 12 yrs ago to migrate to Australia even though my heart said no. But husband had good job lined up, kids young enough to settle easily and outdoor life to make most of. Went pear shaped just 2 weeks after arrival when he suffered work injury and off work for 6 months. All went from bad to worse so year later heart said go back to UK but head said stick it out bit longer which we did but more personal traumas came along and then too difficult to move with savings gone and kids growing up.

 

Now heart is saying go back next year and this time I'm listening to it. Head says no as marriage now finished and am left with little money so idiotic to relocate at my age BUT I feel in my heart that this is what I want to do and it just feels right. The head has let me down twice before so I'm not listening to it again. To be honest I haven't got a tremendous amount to lose anyway other than my pride and I think a lot can be said for gut instinct too.

 

Obviously the majority of people who migrate do not have the bad luck we had but it's just a learning curve that life doesn't always work out as we plan it to. I hope this post doesn't sound too gloomy as I certainly don't mean it to but just following the thread of heart v head! My past experience tells me that life is way too short and unpredictable to be "sensible"!

[FOL]

Don't forget you actually have to go there and experience it to see if it really is what the head/heart tells...

[fourcorners]

Follow your heart as life doesn't always work out as we plan it to. I followed my head 12 yrs ago to migrate to Australia even though my heart said no. But husband had good job lined up, kids young enough to settle easily and outdoor life to make most of. Went pear shaped just 2 weeks after arrival when he suffered work injury and off work for 6 months. All went from bad to worse so year later heart said go back to UK but head said stick it out bit longer which we did but more personal traumas came along and then too difficult to move with savings gone and kids growing up.

 

Now heart is saying go back next year and this time I'm listening to it. Head says no as marriage now finished and am left with little money so idiotic to relocate at my age BUT I feel in my heart that this is what I want to do and it just feels right. The head has let me down twice before so I'm not listening to it again. To be honest I haven't got a tremendous amount to lose anyway other than my pride and I think a lot can be said for gut instinct too.

 

Obviously the majority of people who migrate do not have the bad luck we had but it's just a learning curve that life doesn't always work out as we plan it to. I hope this post doesn't sound too gloomy as I certainly don't mean it to but just following the thread of heart v head! My past experience tells me that life is way too short and unpredictable to be "sensible"!

 

Yeah, being 'sensible' all the time is a bit over-rated! We have been very sensible over the last few years and this move to Australia was very much a head decision, and for us it all has gone along as planned and nothing has really gone wrong. But when you follow your head and not your heart you can often be left somewhat unfulfilled and unsatisfied. I am hoping we can soon follow our hearts back to the UK, time will tell though.

[Guest spreadingwings]

Follow your heart as life doesn't always work out as we plan it to. I followed my head 12 yrs ago to migrate to Australia even though my heart said no. But husband had good job lined up, kids young enough to settle easily and outdoor life to make most of. Went pear shaped just 2 weeks after arrival when he suffered work injury and off work for 6 months. All went from bad to worse so year later heart said go back to UK but head said stick it out bit longer which we did but more personal traumas came along and then too difficult to move with savings gone and kids growing up.

 

Now heart is saying go back next year and this time I'm listening to it. Head says no as marriage now finished and am left with little money so idiotic to relocate at my age BUT I feel in my heart that this is what I want to do and it just feels right. The head has let me down twice before so I'm not listening to it again. To be honest I haven't got a tremendous amount to lose anyway other than my pride and I think a lot can be said for gut instinct too.

 

Obviously the majority of people who migrate do not have the bad luck we had but it's just a learning curve that life doesn't always work out as we plan it to. I hope this post doesn't sound too gloomy as I certainly don't mean it to but just following the thread of heart v head! My past experience tells me that life is way too short and unpredictable to be "sensible"!

 

It's never idiotic to do what you think is right at a particular time. Thank you so much for this reply - it's comforting to know that the head isn't always right. Not gloomy at all. Carpe diem! Make it happen!

 

Yeah, being 'sensible' all the time is a bit over-rated! We have been very sensible over the last few years and this move to Australia was very much a head decision, and for us it all has gone along as planned and nothing has really gone wrong. But when you follow your head and not your heart you can often be left somewhat unfulfilled and unsatisfied. I am hoping we can soon follow our hearts back to the UK, time will tell though.

 

Thanks for the honest feedback too! Good luck with the move back to where you feel you belong

[Guest51810]

What's it like living in South Africa?

[Guest spreadingwings]

What's it like living in South Africa?

 

South Africa, and Cape Town especially, is an incredibly special and unique place. But trying to travel at R18 to the Pound, or R15 to the Euro, or R10 to the Dollar is just crazy. And prices keep going up drastically. It costs us around R2,000 just for water and sewage services every month. Another R1,000 for electricity. Toll roads went up in Jhb a couple of months ago, which has affected consumers twice: once directly because they have to pay more just to travel on the same roads they always have, and again at the checkout counters at shops because they're paying more for transport so prices on all goods go up as well.

 

If you had to stay here for another 10 or 20 years, your salary would struggle to keep up with costs, never mind the political corruption and uncertainty.