flag of convenience Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Very racist towards PNG, I would have thought. And, as they say, 'beggars can't be choosers', so presumbably, however bad PNG is, it can't be as bad as the country they are fleeing, surely? They are not beggars but asylum seekers. They have not committed a crime to be placed in close to concentration camp conditions, in a hostile, dangerous environment unsafe for the workers there, let alone the asylum seekers. One brutality does not make another any easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 What happens if some of those masked men in Ukraine flee to Australia, claiming to be refugees from persecution, when in fact they are war criminals, Russian or Ukrainian? Should we accept their stories at face value, regardless if they destroy their papers? YES! LET THEM ALL IN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Far more so than what is in place and unravelling at the moment. The inhuman conditions presently endured on Manus and Nauru are a disgrace to Australia. An orderly system worked out correctly is the only way to go. Or of course Australia withdraws from its treaty obligations and accepts no one. Discussed it all in detail previously though. Are they that in humane are they? Are the conditions worse than where the asylum seekers came from? What happens when the wrong people are allowed into the community whilst they are still 'being processed'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausborn Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 They are not beggars but asylum seekers. They have not committed a crime to be placed in close to concentration camp conditions, in a hostile, dangerous environment unsafe for the workers there, let alone the asylum seekers. One brutality does not make another any easier. How have they not committed a crime?. If they enter say Indonesia with a passport and documents then Continue to cross international borders from Indonesia without a passport as they are doing. If me or you did it we would be detained , deported and have a lot of trouble to deal with. In my opinion that makes a lot of them criminals and you know as well as most do some of these on these boats are criminal minded. Imagine the world if do gooders like yourself had a say. Would be a sorry place wouldn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 How have they not committed a crime?. If they enter say Indonesia with a passport and documents then Continue to cross international borders from Indonesia without a passport as they are doing. If me or you did it we would be detained , deported and have a lot of trouble to deal with. In my opinion that makes a lot of them criminals and you know as well as most do some of these on these boats are criminal minded. Imagine the world if do gooders like yourself had a say. Would be a sorry place wouldn't it Do-gooders still do have a say don't they?. That's why there were vigils last week after it's tragic events, for people to express their condolences for a man's death and their horror at the system which contributed to it. Be a sad day for this country if our say was ever taken away from us just because we happen to disagree with the majority view. But I'm sure you're not suggesting that it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Do-gooders still do have a say don't they?. That's why there were vigils last week after it's tragic events, for people to express their condolences for a man's death and their horror at the system which contributed to it. Be a sad day for this country if our say was ever taken away from us just because we happen to disagree with the majority view. But I'm sure you're not suggesting that it should be. Yes the minority always have their say, usually very loudly. And every 3 years we all get to vote on who and what we want. Long live democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I have said it many times. Don't wish to go through it again. For now close the concentration camps release all detained and come up with a workable policy. Namely an increased number from South East Asia and an orderly queue. The compromised position of asylum seekers due to the release of personal information should be reason enough. I don't know how old you are, but as an older member, who lived in Germany after the war, how dare you call them concentration camps!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 So somehow you have insight knowledge as to his political activities in the 11 revolt? Many of the educated middle class took to the streets and took on the establishment. Many were hunted down and jailed or worse. Nothing at all to suggest the fact he wanted to finish his studies in Australia that would suggest he wasn't in need of refuge. Regardless of the idiotic comments of the former Labor Foreign Minister, Carr, Iranian asylum seekers had a very high rate of acceptance under UNHCR criteria. Now you're really clutching at straws. So he is able to complete a university degree in Tehran and choose to come to Australia due to lack of Architecture jobs but he is also persecuted and in need of asylum. Yeah right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Are they that in humane are they? Are the conditions worse than where the asylum seekers came from? What happens when the wrong people are allowed into the community whilst they are still 'being processed'? Yes a blemish on Australia to put it mildly. The plan was ill thought out and done on the hop to meet political considerations at the time. As has been mentioned countless times security and verification as well as health checks are done prior to release into community. Not all information will be available but the checking is pretty through. So much so that over fifty potential refuges are in detention, not because they are not proven to be in need of refuge but found or suspected to be members of what this country deems a terrorist organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Now you're really clutching at straws. So he is able to complete a university degree in Tehran and choose to come to Australia due to lack of Architecture jobs but he is also persecuted and in need of asylum.Yeah right. Actually in everything I have read about this particular case - and, like the majority, I do not know the man personally and can only go on what I have read from various news sources - nothing has indicated that he chose to come to Australia due to lack of architecture jobs in his home country. I have read that he was a qualified architect, but took that as an indication that he was prepared and able to work to support himself in Australia and wasn't expecting to get any handouts or live off the state once/if he was granted asylum, but nothing said that was the reason he had fled his home country (and I'm sure certain media would have been happy to have explicitly stated that if they had definite proof of the fact). I think the very fact that he was at the camp and had entered the country this way (rather than applying for a skilled visa through other channels - I'm sure architect must be on some skills shortage list here!) probably indicated he had fled for other reasons, such as escaping persecution and torture, as I'm sure many of the people in these camps are, and the only reason his architecture qualifications have even been mentioned is to disabuse people (no names mentioned but at least one has posted on this thread) of the misapprehension that these people are just scrounging freeloaders. Regardless - the fact remains that he was supposedly under the protection of the Australian government when he was brutally killed - something that should make us all just a teensy bit ashamed, in my very humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Now you're really clutching at straws. So he is able to complete a university degree in Tehran and choose to come to Australia due to lack of Architecture jobs but he is also persecuted and in need of asylum.Yeah right. Yeah right, brush up on international politics before making such a comment. As is the case in most countries, it is the educated that take to the streets and protest against the injustice within their system. It was principally the students and educated that defied the government in 2011, that could have led to another Egypt, in the toppling of a government. Shame you seem more concerned with the academic qualifications than the inhuman conditions imposed on asylum seekers, in the name of Australia, to the shame of all living here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Many are going back to their homes voluntarily which is a good thing and it is a detention centre not a holiday resort. They are meant to be functional not luxurious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Actually in everything I have read about this particular case - and, like the majority, I do not know the man personally and can only go on what I have read from various news sources - nothing has indicated that he chose to come to Australia due to lack of architecture jobs in his home country. I have read that he was a qualified architect, but took that as an indication that he was prepared and able to work to support himself in Australia and wasn't expecting to get any handouts or live off the state once/if he was granted asylum, but nothing said that was the reason he had fled his home country (and I'm sure certain media would have been happy to have explicitly stated that if they had definite proof of the fact). I think the very fact that he was at the camp and had entered the country this way (rather than applying for a skilled visa through other channels - I'm sure architect must be on some skills shortage list here!) probably indicated he had fled for other reasons, such as escaping persecution and torture, as I'm sure many of the people in these camps are, and the only reason his architecture qualifications have even been mentioned is to disabuse people (no names mentioned but at least one has posted on this thread) of the misapprehension that these people are just scrounging freeloaders. Regardless - the fact remains that he was supposedly under the protection of the Australian government when he was brutally killed - something that should make us all just a teensy bit ashamed, in my very humble opinion. As you rightly state regardless of anything else, and there are plenty, he was under the protection of the Australian government. We must demand better for people under its care, in whatever situation that may be as it could be us laying in a hospital bed, or requiring assistance of some nature and maintain the pressure to keep the humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Many are going back to their homes voluntarily which is a good thing and it is a detention centre not a holiday resort.They are meant to be functional not luxurious. They are not meant to be places of torture either. Actually very few are returning considering the extreme and degrading conditions they are forced to endure. They are barely functional let alone luxurious. Only solution close the camps and get it right next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Diane it was clearly in the Age link I posted if you care to read it. The source was his brother in law. Here it is again. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/manus-despair-he-was-guilty-of-nothing-20140228-33r5v.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I don't know how old you are, but as an older member, who lived in Germany after the war, how dare you call them concentration camps!!!!! I will call them as I see fit. When you place folk in camps and take away hope and dispel humanity that in my way of thinking are modern day concentration camps. Feel free to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes the minority always have their say, usually very loudly.And every 3 years we all get to vote on who and what we want. Long live democracy. The donkey's get the command to go to a polling booth a cast an unwanted vote. Hence donkey vote. Real democracy that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 How have they not committed a crime?. If they enter say Indonesia with a passport and documents then Continue to cross international borders from Indonesia without a passport as they are doing. If me or you did it we would be detained , deported and have a lot of trouble to deal with. In my opinion that makes a lot of them criminals and you know as well as most do some of these on these boats are criminal minded. Imagine the world if do gooders like yourself had a say. Would be a sorry place wouldn't it Imagine the world if do badders had the ultimate say. Would be a sorry place wouldn't it. Doesn't hurt to reflect a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The donkey's get the command to go to a polling booth a cast an unwanted vote. Hence donkey vote. Real democracy that is. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What happens if some of those masked men in Ukraine flee to Australia, claiming to be refugees from persecution, when in fact they are war criminals, Russian or Ukrainian? Should we accept their stories at face value, regardless if they destroy their papers? YES! LET THEM ALL IN! Here you go again. Nobody has ever suggested allow everyone in. Right wingers crack me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Bottom line the current policies are working. The camps and refusal to settle illegal boat arrivals in Australia are acting as the deterrent they are designed to be. The boats have finally stopped. None have reached Australia for around 75 days now. The odd one that still tries gets turned back. Eventually it becomes a non issue as no ne arrivals mean the camps will empty over time as the residents get processed and resettled in the region or go home. No more drownings too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Diane it was clearly in the Age link I posted if you care to read it. The source was his brother in law. Here it is again. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/manus-despair-he-was-guilty-of-nothing-20140228-33r5v.html All I can find in that is two comments; that he set out for Australia seeking to further his studies here, and that he was a well educated refugee. Accepting that people read reports according to their own views in different ways, I take from the fact it is not a direct verbatim quote that the first part could have easily been part of a longer comment (perhaps as I said above indicating that he would not be a burden on the state if accepted), and the second part indicates that he was seeking 'refuge' from something a little worse than a job shortage. I don't think 'refugee' would be the word used for someone looking for a job. Migrant maybe. Refugee points to something a little more serious and that word is a direct quote. Papers are very careful about what they print and how they print it sometimes, and can very subtly guide their readers to form a certain opinion. Hence it's important to always look at not only the words they use, but how they use them. The boats have finally stopped. None have reached Australia for around 75 days now. The odd one that still tries gets turned back. Monsoon season, remember! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 It was pretty clear toward the end. Okay I'll type it out for you. Mr Barati had graduated as an architect but had been unable to find work in Iran's sanction-strapped economy, the brother-in-law said. He had set out for Australia hoping to further his architectural studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yep, no speech marks, did you notice? Oh, and a full stop after the bit his brother in law said. You make the assumption it was said, but the paper has not actually printed that so if they were ever taken to task they have that as a defence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Okay I get it if the truth doesn't suit your argument just pretend the media are lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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