Tony Abbott has done it. He has stopped the boats.

[flag of convenience]

I wish you'd stop using facts. It gets in the way of the whining lefty argument.

 

Little fear of facts clouding the view with the gnarling of teeth by the ribald right. Or use of slogans.

[flag of convenience]

Cunning of Tony Abbott to arrange for this to happen during his term as PM. Would have made more sense for it to have happened during Gillard/Rudds' reign.

 

Not even cunning. Transparent a better way to describe the antics overall. Even if unaccountable.

[Bibbs]

Little fear of facts clouding the view with the gnarling of teeth by the ribald right. Or use of slogans.

:laugh:

 

Someone said 'Rupert got a bribe!', someone points out it was actually a legal judgement regarding a long outstanding tax case.

 

Then you come out with 'use of slogans' and the 'gnarling of teeth by the ribald right'. (where the word 'ribald' doesn't seem to fit, I'd have thought 'rabid' was probably better)

 

 

[LittleDaisy]

Oh my god.. I'm just visiting here after being away for ages, and there are people on here who are actually hostile to asylum seekers? Are you serious? I bet the Australian Aboriginies were dead chuffed to receive a bunch of criminals arriving on boats... come on!! Migration has gone on since forever, for all sorts of reasons, it's one planet and suddenly greed and fear of loss, unjustified at that, is taking over, little countries all so possessive about their borders until they want to go someone on holiday?? It's not the immigrants any country needs to be worried about, it's the present governments' -from all over the world - willingness to allow polluting shale gas companies, and other polluters, and world banks corrupt and invade every country. I feel like Diane about politics, Cameron and Tony Abbott, such bad news that they turn the most placid folk into people outraged at what their shortsightedness is doing. Back to 'hurray, we've stopped the boats' - may all of those rejoicing never ever have to experience being desperate enough to up stick to look for a better life elsewhere.. oh but wait.. what's this forum for again? Oh yes.. we and our kids, we're all ok, aren't we.. just those others aren't ... shame on you who support such thinking, and thanks for those shaking their heads at the 'blame game' and inhumanity of it.

[Xenon4017]

I have no doubt the deceased had hoped for a better life in Australia including career. I don't see how that doesn't make him in need of asylum.

 

 

Maybe you don't, but the UN does. The asylum system is there to address the needs of people seeking refuge from persecution, often life-threateningly so. It's not meant to be a system for redistributing economic opportunites. And therein lies the rub. I've personally met (and befriended) both legitimate asylum seekers and bogus claimants. From my experience it's very easy to tell the difference when you encounter the individuals, but very difficult to adopt a set of official procedures that will sort the wheat from the chaff 100% of the time. No one wants to risk sending people back to the source of their persecution. But the bogus claimants play on this fact, and tailor their story to suit.

 

Personally, I think the best way forward is remove the link between the country where you claim asylum, and the country of eventual resettlement. It's not illegal to claim asylum, and should never be viewed as such. But it's also not very fair for claimants to effectively choose where they should be resettled. Australia has a lot of space and resources, so it's only fair that they shoulder more of the global burden that less fortunate nations. But they are being taken for mugs in this international game of Pass the Donkey.

[flag of convenience]

:laugh:

 

Someone said 'Rupert got a bribe!', someone points out it was actually a legal judgement regarding a long outstanding tax case.

 

Then you come out with 'use of slogans' and the 'gnarling of teeth by the ribald right'. (where the word 'ribald' doesn't seem to fit, I'd have thought 'rabid' was probably better)

 

 

 

Preferred the ring. Got more ba..s.

[flag of convenience]

Oh my god.. I'm just visiting here after being away for ages, and there are people on here who are actually hostile to asylum seekers? Are you serious? I bet the Australian Aboriginies were dead chuffed to receive a bunch of criminals arriving on boats... come on!! Migration has gone on since forever, for all sorts of reasons, it's one planet and suddenly greed and fear of loss, unjustified at that, is taking over, little countries all so possessive about their borders until they want to go someone on holiday?? It's not the immigrants any country needs to be worried about, it's the present governments' -from all over the world - willingness to allow polluting shale gas companies, and other polluters, and world banks corrupt and invade every country. I feel like Diane about politics, Cameron and Tony Abbott, such bad news that they turn the most placid folk into people outraged at what their shortsightedness is doing. Back to 'hurray, we've stopped the boats' - may all of those rejoicing never ever have to experience being desperate enough to up stick to look for a better life elsewhere.. oh but wait.. what's this forum for again? Oh yes.. we and our kids, we're all ok, aren't we.. just those others aren't ... shame on you who support such thinking, and thanks for those shaking their heads at the 'blame game' and inhumanity of it.

 

The boats are a bit of a smokescreen to disguise the real business. The real bizz has yet to get underway although we've seen tokens of it. Inhumanity towards one group can very easily be replicated and passed on to others in different forms.

 

I agree though a very sad look for Australia not to say some of the views being expressed on public forums. I'd think not a little dangerous as well in a settler country during a time of record immigration, if one thing led to another and immigration became a scapegoat. Anti refugee could just as easy transpire into anti immigrant.

[flag of convenience]

Maybe you don't, but the UN does. The asylum system is there to address the needs of people seeking refuge from persecution, often life-threateningly so. It's not meant to be a system for redistributing economic opportunites. And therein lies the rub. I've personally met (and befriended) both legitimate asylum seekers and bogus claimants. From my experience it's very easy to tell the difference when you encounter the individuals, but very difficult to adopt a set of official procedures that will sort the wheat from the chaff 100% of the time. No one wants to risk sending people back to the source of their persecution. But the bogus claimants play on this fact, and tailor their story to suit.

 

Personally, I think the best way forward is remove the link between the country where you claim asylum, and the country of eventual resettlement. It's not illegal to claim asylum, and should never be viewed as such. But it's also not very fair for claimants to effectively choose where they should be resettled. Australia has a lot of space and resources, so it's only fair that they shoulder more of the global burden that less fortunate nations. But they are being taken for mugs in this international game of Pass the Donkey.

 

You misunderstand me. I know very well the UNHCR rulings. Wrote it clumsily. I meant to state in combination of political persecution, of course. Hence all elements together.

 

Well if Australia is being taken for mugs, I wonder what your feelings would be towards various European countries where many tens of thousands, many times dwarfing Australia's commitment, would turn up and claim asylum?

 

It did polarise the population to an extent but quite an incredibly large number would speak /protest on their behalf. Far more than here. Interesting due to history I expect far more opposition to the right of politics.

[MARYROSE02]

Claims hardly moving if at all. Lot of frustration all round. I would question the suitability of some employed there and their sensibilities to say the least. Checks could easily have been made in Indonesia without the political setting up of blow out costing camps and degrading its name.

 

You should perhaps look at the highest rates of migration, 457's etc, in modern history, before always pointing the finger at asylum seekers which make a very small part of overall entrants.

 

How would the Australian Government carry out checks in Indonesia? Pay Indonesia to do it? Ask the Indonesian Government to allow Australians to do checks in their country!?

 

You always go back to quoting the relatively small numbers of refugees as a percentage of overall migration. So what? Small numbers does not mean insignifcant. What about 457 visas? Maybe unscrupulous employers use them to recruit cheap labour? I know that people on 457 visas do not have any social security/dole/voting rights despite working and paying taxes. But what have 457 visas got to do with refugee intake?

[MARYROSE02]

My God, I never realized that for all these years I have been living in a dictatorship, where voting is a sham, controlled by 'Big Business' and 'King Rupert'. How cunning of 'King Rupert' to so control things that both the ALP and the Liberals get into power, at much the same rate that Labour and Tories swap government in the UK. Oh, I forgot that 'King Rupert' controls Britain in much the same way via 'The Sun' & Sky News.

 

I wonder if anybody who hates Rupert has ever actually read 'The Australian' on a regular basis? There are usually six pages of Australian news, followed by a couple of pages of foreign news, then more Australian news, comment and letters on two or three more pages. ALP and union people contribute columns tooIf there is a bias, Rupert must be exceptionally sly to cover it all up, and where does he find the time to control the content? He would need a hundred 'Ruperts' to do that, with all the newspapers and media companies he owns all over the world.

[MARYROSE02]

The boats are a bit of a smokescreen to disguise the real business. The real bizz has yet to get underway although we've seen tokens of it. Inhumanity towards one group can very easily be replicated and passed on to others in different forms.

 

I agree though a very sad look for Australia not to say some of the views being expressed on public forums. I'd think not a little dangerous as well in a settler country during a time of record immigration, if one thing led to another and immigration became a scapegoat. Anti refugee could just as easy transpire into anti immigrant.

 

So, after over a hundred years of peaceful democracy in one of the safest countries on Earth, and one which has welcomed millions of migrants and refugees, Australia is suddenly going to turn into one of the really nasty countries, that so many people flee from?

 

And think of all those 'nasty' countries, ones where people kill each other because they are the wrong colour skin, the wrong gender, have the wrong sexual preference, the wrong caste, the wrong tribe, the wrong religion. Australia welcomes them all, and when Australians express repugnance when some migrants want to bring their own prejudices with them, it's Australians who are the criminals for not showing enough tolerance of other cultures.

[MARYROSE02]

There was a poll in The Australian today and refugees has fallen to seventh or eighth on the list of things that Aussies are worried about. Top of the list is Medicare, health, jobs, the economy.

 

So, you see, Tony Abbott really HAS "stopped the boats." But can he solve the next problem(S)?

[Guest]

Stop deliberately mis-spelling his name. It is really low.

 

 

What are you, his mum?!!. Blimey, it's not like I called him a c*** or something!

[Guest]

That's for them to sort out. They're not affecting our future. But voting is a privilege...so many people in the world don't have the privilege of voting in a free and non violent environment. And if you can't be stuffed to go along voluntarily and value your vote, you shouldn't be allowed to affect the outcome for those who do.

 

 

Hmmm, I get where you're coming from, but I'd argue that voting is a right, rather than a privilege. If we start tugging our forelocks and thanking our lords and masters for the vote then they'll start expecting even more in return.

[Guest]

I thought Tony Abbott's Chief of Staff is a woman. Perhaps he believes in appointing people by merit, not gender?

 

 

Or maybe he believes women should be at home ironing his shirts and not bothering their pretty little heads with playing more than a minor role in the governing of Australia!

[Guest]

Obviously he is committing electoral suicide, alienating all these female voters. Bill Shorten for PM in 2016!

 

 

Nah, I reckon he'll romp home in 2016. With all those angry, asylum-seeker-fearing, climate-change sceptic White males behind him, he's got it in the bag!. And, he's got God on his side hasn't he?. If I was Bill Shorten I'd concede now!

[Guest]

Yes, just think how perfect it was under Rudd and Gillard. They really knew how to form a Government. Then that dickhead Abbott flukes an election win and destroys everything that the best politicians the world has ever seen set up.

 

Nah, there was no fluke involved. Labor committed political suicide by allowing an egotistical maniac with the personality of a Sat-Nav to get stabbed in the back by a flame-haired, Celtic assassin, before ditching her and bringing back the Sat-Nav. With Gina, Big Rupe and shock-jocks onside, Tony was a slam-dunk.

[Parley]

Don't forget Brpnwyn Bishop - The speaker of the House.

Why are you so disparaging to these women ?

[Guest]

Don't forget Brpnwyn Bishop - The speaker of the House.

Why are you so disparaging to these women ?

 

 

Eh?, so by raising the fact that the Abbott government has only one female cabinet member, and suggesting that this is not a good thing (in my view), I'm somehow disparaging towards women?. As opposed to the politician who we're discussing, who has described women as "Physiologically unfit to lead?"

[Parley]

You have given no credit to these women at all, just making low personal insults to Tony Abbott and mis-spelling his name deliberately like a school bully would.

You should be supporting these women but you can't get past your obsession with Tony Abbott.

[Guest]

You have given no credit to these women at all, just making low personal insults to Tony Abbott and mis-spelling his name deliberately like a school bully would.

You should be supporting these women but you can't get past your obsession with Tony Abbott.

Parley, I'd like to extend my sincere congratulations to Julie and Bronwyn Bishop on making their mark in the testosterone-sodden world of Australian politics. God knows it can't be easy, particularly for Julie at cabinet meetings when Scott Morrison asks her if she can get him a Skinny Latte and Tony asks her if her husband minds her not being at home during the day.

 

Of all the insults I've levelled at Tony over the years, "The Mad Monk," "The Prince of Darkness" and "The National Embarrassment," I'm kinda feeling that omitting the second 't' from his surname is pretty lame in comparison really. I apologise if it upsets you though Parley. Tony, if you're reading this, I'm so sorry for bullying you all these years by mocking your intellect by suggesting your Oxford Uny degree was only in Boxing, or by implying that you only got the top job in Australia because Rupert Murdoch wanted to emulate P.T. Barnum and make an intellectual midget the star of the show.

 

Don't be a bully like me Tony, don't erode workers' rights, or suggest that people choose to be homeless, or that soldiers' deaths overseas are a case of "**** happens" or that you don't believe in "any of this green ****." regarding the environment.

 

You can do it.

[Parley]

The trouble is when you make childish jibes, like Mad monk, misspelling names etc it tends to show you up.

I know you are capable of expressing yourself eloquently, so stick to rational argument, and don't just make up unfounded accusations or conspiracy theories or name calling but discuss the real issues of the day.

 

Anyway I'm off now.

 

By the way I think its 78 days now since the last boat arrived.

[MARYROSE02]

Nah, there was no fluke involved. Labor committed political suicide by allowing an egotistical maniac with the personality of a Sat-Nav to get stabbed in the back by a flame-haired, Celtic assassin, before ditching her and bringing back the Sat-Nav. With Gina, Big Rupe and shock-jocks onside, Tony was a slam-dunk.

 

If it is the shock jocks and Rupert Murdoch who decide who wins every General Election, then why does Labor continue to win office? Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Chris Smith, and The Murdoch Press could not do a thing to stop Rudd in 2007, despite the fact that so many Australians all listen to 2GB, or read Murdoch's papers.

 

If Tony Abbott screws things up, he will lose office. What makes you think that 2GB and The Murdoch Press do not publicise all the bad news since Abbott took office anyway? They cover Holden/Toyota/SPC/Qantas probably more intensely than Fairfax or the ABC.

 

Of course, it's just bad luck for Abbott that all these things have happened since he took office. But Rudd and Gillard stuffed things up themselves - 'pink batts', schools, boats, etc. etc.

[MARYROSE02]

Hmmm, I get where you're coming from, but I'd argue that voting is a right, rather than a privilege. If we start tugging our forelocks and thanking our lords and masters for the vote then they'll start expecting even more in return.

 

Perhaps voting is a privilege in the sense that in so many countries nobody has the right or the privilege of voting?

[Diane]

What makes you think that 2GB and The Murdoch Press do not publicise all the bad news since Abbott took office anyway?

 

You'd be astounded (or perhaps not) at the stuff that has been going on that has got little or no coverage in the regular media. The only consolation is that Turnbull and Hockey are waiting in the wings for their turn...which will come for sure. Tony Abbott is not leadership material I'm afraid, and is a laughing stock internationally.