Guest Andy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Not all andy, but there is no doubt some right wingers are knuckle dragging fascists just depends how far right your willing to go. So what have those people ( if they exist ) got to do with this thread and your post and how come you have bought the term "knuckle dragger" and name calling into the thread then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulv Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Why play the victim Aldo? Man up. Pic was me on the carzy this morning. The world doesn't revolve around you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulv Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 weird isn't it that all the name calling and insults comes from the left. This is where irony ate itself. A post calling out left wingers for err, supposedly calling out others. *universe folds in on itself and disappears* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Why play the victim Aldo? Man up. Pic was me on the carzy this morning. The world doesn't revolve around you! OMG.. you need to let this aldo thing go.. its eating you up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The simple reality though that the left - particularly the far left - refuses to think about is that a government can only only spend what it has. Not only that, but it is prudent to only spend a fraction of what it has coming in as it will experience a multitude of other spending requirements. At the moment that means probably cutting spending by a massive amount. It is in the medium term likely to mean a decision of a welfare state or a healthcare system. There simply isn't the cash for both. I do though think there are a lot of savings to be had in other areas. One of which is that I would pretty much abandon a armed forces with the exception of trident - the world is actually becoming a geopolitical more unstable place. But as the rest of the forces have been cut to the point of been pointless then let's get rid - Oz should abandon all. Tax will not manage it and it has been proved time and again that high taxes do not result in high revenue as those that are most at risk of paying high taxes are those most able to move to places with a low tax haven - hence one of the lowest amounts of tax revenue ever generated in the UK was when there was ultra high tax. Instead, people need to be far more responsible for their own future. People need to stop thinking "I have left school and can't find a job, so what is the givernemt going to do". The answer is zero. You have to ask "I have left school and can't find a job. What do I need to do". People have to stop wondering how is the state going to support me. Because it isn't. It will have the cash for basic services. The rest we are going to have to fund One of the things that must happen is to abolish things such as tax credits. Yes it will cause massive pain. But there is no other way. The current system simply subsidises companies to pay low incomes. It is neither good for the state, the tax payer or the employee. They are the most abhorrent benefits ever imagined. Next we have to look at what benefits are for. What they were originally designed for and redesign them to go back to that. They were designed to stop people falling into purgatory by providing a SHORT TERM assistance while the claimant found work and to provide for those unable to work due to disability. That is it. Tax breaks should be also available for those that use private health and education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidensarah Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I wish I understood politics. Sometimes I agree with one 'side' and sometimes the other. I can never make up my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I wish I understood politics. Sometimes I agree with one 'side' and sometimes the other. I can never make up my mind. That's a good thing, it means you are a free thinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I wish I understood politics. Sometimes I agree with one 'side' and sometimes the other. I can never make up my mind. That is normal enough. No party nor political belief will hold all the answers. Your head and heart will inform you to which side of the ideological divide you belong to. It is not usually clear cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I wish I understood politics. Sometimes I agree with one 'side' and sometimes the other. I can never make up my mind. That IMO is a very healthy outlook! You'll go far :wubclub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell123321 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I don't think they should ban all under 25's from housing benefit. I can never imagine my father allowing me to live at his till 25. I moved out at 18 went to live in Portsmouth and maintained a job constantly so have not had to claim housing benefit whilst I was under 25. However if I had lost my job then I would have been forced to claim housing benefit as I had a daughter to look after, I believe it should be on a case by case basis. In regards to council houses for people earning over 65k I think the main issue is affordable housing/rent. I have private rented the last 10 years but if I could have afforded a mortgage it would have been cheaper. If I had a council property with cheap rent I would have been very well off and would have been able to save enough deposit to get a mortgage. At one stage I was paying £900 per month rent when to buy the same property the mortgage would have been £400 a month and a council property was around £250 a month. It is a pain when someone with a high income (Not living in London) can keep their property and still only pay £250 a month when others are struggling but I guess that's the problem that's occurred due to right to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The simple reality though that the left - particularly the far left - refuses to think about is that a government can only only spend what it has. Not only that, but it is prudent to only spend a fraction of what it has coming in as it will experience a multitude of other spending requirements. At the moment that means probably cutting spending by a massive amount. It is in the medium term likely to mean a decision of a welfare state or a healthcare system. There simply isn't the cash for both. I do though think there are a lot of savings to be had in other areas. One of which is that I would pretty much abandon a armed forces with the exception of trident - the world is actually becoming a geopolitical more unstable place. But as the rest of the forces have been cut to the point of been pointless then let's get rid - Oz should abandon all. Tax will not manage it and it has been proved time and again that high taxes do not result in high revenue as those that are most at risk of paying high taxes are those most able to move to places with a low tax haven - hence one of the lowest amounts of tax revenue ever generated in the UK was when there was ultra high tax. Instead, people need to be far more responsible for their own future. People need to stop thinking "I have left school and can't find a job, so what is the givernemt going to do". The answer is zero. You have to ask "I have left school and can't find a job. What do I need to do". People have to stop wondering how is the state going to support me. Because it isn't. It will have the cash for basic services. The rest we are going to have to fund One of the things that must happen is to abolish things such as tax credits. Yes it will cause massive pain. But there is no other way. The current system simply subsidises companies to pay low incomes. It is neither good for the state, the tax payer or the employee. They are the most abhorrent benefits ever imagined. Next we have to look at what benefits are for. What they were originally designed for and redesign them to go back to that. They were designed to stop people falling into purgatory by providing a SHORT TERM assistance while the claimant found work and to provide for those unable to work due to disability. That is it. Tax breaks should be also available for those that use private health and education. With the Right's push since the 80s to lower tax paid of the wealthy and corporations of course there is less money to fund the Welfare State. Added to that increased Middle Class entitlement paid in bribes to enable governments to get re elected, there is increasingly little in the purse for the vulnerable. Never mind bailouts and the like. The Welfare State was something akin to a Social Contract between citizen and governments in advanced western democracies that allowed capitalism to function within a setting of fairness. The fear of Communism ensured its continued continuation. The demise of Communism was supposed to unleash a peace dividend that would benefit society. Not the see greater amounts in the hands of fewer and a gradual return to pre war conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The simple reality though that the left - particularly the far left - refuses to think about is that a government can only only spend what it has. Not only that, but it is prudent to only spend a fraction of what it has coming in as it will experience a multitude of other spending requirements. At the moment that means probably cutting spending by a massive amount. It is in the medium term likely to mean a decision of a welfare state or a healthcare system. There simply isn't the cash for both. I do though think there are a lot of savings to be had in other areas. One of which is that I would pretty much abandon a armed forces with the exception of trident - the world is actually becoming a geopolitical more unstable place. But as the rest of the forces have been cut to the point of been pointless then let's get rid - Oz should abandon all. Tax will not manage it and it has been proved time and again that high taxes do not result in high revenue as those that are most at risk of paying high taxes are those most able to move to places with a low tax haven - hence one of the lowest amounts of tax revenue ever generated in the UK was when there was ultra high tax. Instead, people need to be far more responsible for their own future. People need to stop thinking "I have left school and can't find a job, so what is the givernemt going to do". The answer is zero. You have to ask "I have left school and can't find a job. What do I need to do". People have to stop wondering how is the state going to support me. Because it isn't. It will have the cash for basic services. The rest we are going to have to fund One of the things that must happen is to abolish things such as tax credits. Yes it will cause massive pain. But there is no other way. The current system simply subsidises companies to pay low incomes. It is neither good for the state, the tax payer or the employee. They are the most abhorrent benefits ever imagined. Next we have to look at what benefits are for. What they were originally designed for and redesign them to go back to that. They were designed to stop people falling into purgatory by providing a SHORT TERM assistance while the claimant found work and to provide for those unable to work due to disability. That is it. Tax breaks should be also available for those that use private health and education. Some wide-ranging thoughts here. Abandoning armed services would lose 100s of thousands of jobs in supply etc many of them private sector. Massive call that one. Keep Trident - why? It is out of date and it's replacement will be bought from the USA and all for a weapon that can never be used. It is based in Scotland which may become independent soon. I would keep the armed services and get rid of nuclear - that would save a bomb. Tax Credits were designed to make low-paid work more attractive than dole. It hasn't worked though. Back to the drawing board. Subsidise private health and private education. These are tax breaks for the wealthy and middle-classes. Why? Yes it would be good if everyone was self-reliant. I have always worked and paid taxes but I am never envious of those who have not and fall back on state aid. All attempts to limit relief because of the feckless end up hurting the really needy more. We will no doubt muddle through tinkering here and there but I am always wary of wholesale changes proposed by the extreme left or right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidensarah Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Oh thank you, you are all kind :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I wish I understood politics. Sometimes I agree with one 'side' and sometimes the other. I can never make up my mind. It's good to be open minded and really think about what's being said (usually not much and a lot of avoiding actually answering of questions with sound bites and spin!). I think your political 'leanings' tend to develop depending on your life experiences. I was brought up in a Tory voting, Daily Mail reading house, but it never quite sat right with me, and working in council run day nurseries with exceptionally deprived children and then in the NHS just confirmed my belief that there are far too many people around only concerned with the acquisition of wealth and looking after number one. That doesn't mean I'm a card carrying member of the Labour Party either though, they can be complete tools too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidensarah Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It's good to be open minded and really think about what's being said (usually not much and a lot of avoiding actually answering of questions with sound bites and spin!). I think your political 'leanings' tend to develop depending on your life experiences. I was brought up in a Tory voting, Daily Mail reading house, but it never quite sat right with me, and working in council run day nurseries with exceptionally deprived children and then in the NHS just confirmed my belief that there are far too many people around only concerned with the acquisition of wealth and looking after number one. That doesn't mean I'm a card carrying member of the Labour Party either though, they can be complete tools too! I didn't vote last time round because I didn't have a clue! I was brought up in a decent area by my Mum and Dad (now divorced 12 years) who both worked and they were/are labour voters. But yet my Dad reads the sun, has a Daily Mail kind of view. OH was brought up on a dairy farm in North Devon by his Mum and Dad, whose parents were farmers before them. They vote Conservative so OH has that kind of view, mostly. My OH works 50+ hours a week in a stressful job for a decent wage, I, currently, look after our children full time (apart from my nearly 3yr old's few hours of pre-schoola week) as we decided that was best for them until they're in school. Then I want to look at working with children, so won't be earning much. Sometimes I feel from the Tories that they are hard on SAHM because they want us all to work......for ex. with the scrapping child benefit/family allowance if one parent earns over a certain amount but two parents working and earning way more still keep it..... IMO there should be a cut off per family at a certain amount, not by how many are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 As an outsider I found the bbc article was far better written than than the daily mail article...it properly presented all views and the political commentator discussed the apparent framing of the political conversation in preparation for an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Not all andy, but there is no doubt some right wingers are knuckle dragging fascists just depends how far right your willing to go. Well you seem to have plenty of support for your post baz and we could all get into pathetic little name calling but again what has knuckle dragging fascists got to do with the thread or your post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpo1971 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 weird isn't it that all the name calling and insults comes from the left. True. And usually accompanied by the 'I know better than you and you're an idiot' rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 True. And usually accompanied by the 'I know better than you and you're an idiot' rhetoric. Any suggestions why that may be the case? I'd consider the name calling from both sides of the fence to be pretty much on par. Perhaps belonging to the other faction you are more sensitive to critique of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpo1971 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Any suggestions why that may be the case? I'd consider the name calling from both sides of the fence to be pretty much on par. Perhaps belonging to the other faction you are more sensitive to critique of it? I don't belong to either faction, I'm just able to make that observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I don't belong to either faction, I'm just able to make that observation. I guess a case of observations having differing conclusions then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyTinKnicks Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Actually the 45% rate kicks in for all Taxable earnings above £150,000 so even if you are paid £200k per annum the max additional tax paid is £2000pa after personally allowances. . Just to point out that after £118k or thereabouts (threshold might have changed since I did my tax exams in 2012) you don't get any personal allowances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 True. And usually accompanied by the 'I know better than you and you're an idiot' rhetoric. You see at least the left or those leaning towards it attempt to explain there POV, most right wingers seem to have had some sort of brain wash effect put on them they have opinions but are not sure as to why they have that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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