Guest Guest66881 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Some analysts are now saying this will have a high impact on future jobs in many other sectors, possible recession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1977 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Some analysts are now saying this will have a high impact on future jobs in many other sectors, possible recession? You can see it coming, sky high house prices, government debt blowing out, people struggling to find work , huge house hold debt.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Patterson Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 GM doesn't have a RWD diesel engine that would be suitable. The engine would have to be outsourced, so add cost to the car. But maybe it would have sold more in Europe as a diesel. Who knows. The V6 is more than economical enough and you don't have to put up with how awful diesel engines are. Try telling that to Mercedes,BMW and particularly Audi..........I don't see a petrol powered car beating one of these at Le Mans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Patterson Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 What will be worth the money, the car or the shed? A Falcon GTHO Phase 3 was sold at auction a couple of years ago at just over $800,000.........the moneys there for the right sort of car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Try telling that to Mercedes,BMW and particularly Audi..........I don't see a petrol powered car beating one of these at Le Mans [ATTACH=CONFIG]22231[/ATTACH] Not if they keep the refuling rules with a massive Diesel bias. No. We'll see with Porsche's new entry (I4 turbo and a load of eletrics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counting Stars Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I just feel sorry for people if they lose their jobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Patterson Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 We'll see with Porsche's new entry (I4 turbo and a load of eletrics) Not in 2014 though......I'm looking forward to being there again. Best weekend of motorsport going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I just feel sorry for people if they lose their jobs... The Holden peeps will be getting $300-500k .. so hopefully they'll be able to re-train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Not in 2014 though......I'm looking forward to being there again. Best weekend of motorsport going. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1358740&mid=72074&nmt=RE%3A+Porsche+LMP1+confirms+4-cyl+hybrid That's correct, the 2014 LMP1 car, the car with which Porsche will make its Le Mans return, is to be a four-cylinder hybrid. Crikey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 the dollar hasn't helped but producing a rear wheel drive, thirsty car is a good 10 years out of date. the world is pretty much now buying more efficient cars, and those who want to have a gas guzzler want a 4x4. where was holdens R+D dept over the last 10 years? asleep at the wheel i think. we're at a stage now where the world is turning more towards battery and battery hybrids, but Australia is still digging their heels into petrochemicals and mining. handing out placebo's like boxes to turn off a tv that is on standby. this is a sign of things to come. in the next 10-20 years when the rest of the world is burning next to no coal, and running efficient power grids, Australia will be a third world nation. with the climate, and the skills here we could lead the world, instead we seem to be asleep at the wheel. sounds kinda familiar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitman Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 @flybyknight Well sad. In Europe there are more push bikes sold then cars while here they still think it's cool to drive minimal a 3lt V6 but better a 6lt V8, mental. And about 3rd world country... If you want to call this a 1st world country I'm not sure... Just look at the burned rubber tracks on most streets and the army of all those L & P (red / green / white) drivers who are most first generation drivers. :shocked: I do feel sorry for the Holden workers thou as I have been made redundant late 2011 and know the feeling of being send home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Patterson Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 3lt V6 but better a 6lt V8 And it's great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 the dollar hasn't helped but producing a rear wheel drive, thirsty car is a good 10 years out of date. the world is pretty much now buying more efficient cars, and those who want to have a gas guzzler want a 4x4. where was holdens R+D dept over the last 10 years? asleep at the wheel i think. we're at a stage now where the world is turning more towards battery and battery hybrids, but Australia is still digging their heels into petrochemicals and mining. handing out placebo's like boxes to turn off a tv that is on standby. this is a sign of things to come. in the next 10-20 years when the rest of the world is burning next to no coal, and running efficient power grids, Australia will be a third world nation. with the climate, and the skills here we could lead the world, instead we seem to be asleep at the wheel. sounds kinda familiar.... Sorry, but i disagree. Electric cars are not going to happen in any big way. The reason being that countries are still mainly producing their energy by fossil fuel. So, the worst thing you can do is run an electric car - basic thermodynamics means that you are causing more fossil fuel to be burnt to power the electric car than you do by combustion engine. Only the stupid buy electric cars. As for what the world in the future runs on is very hard to say. It will not be significantly more renewables as they simply dont have the ability to meet even present demand. So, its either going to be nuclear or gas - still a fossil fuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 There was a car reviewer on the radio yesterday also pointing out that electric cars don't seem to be the way of the future. He had been driving the Holden/Chevrolet Volt and said it was a great car to drive and very refined. However, he had been plugging it into his electricity at home to recharge it overnight and his electricity bill had gone thru the roof. The saving of running this electric car verses a petrol car was fairly minimal in terms of running costs and certainly not enough to offset the higher cost of the car based on an average australian drivers kilometers per year. LPG has also hit $1 per litre. The future of motoring ? Petrol - Modern petrol engines are becoming more and more efficient and no other technology is likely to surpass it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjg Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The future of motoring ? Petrol - Modern petrol engines are becoming more and more efficient and no other technology is likely to surpass it. Have you read much about hydrogen fuel cells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Have you read much about hydrogen fuel cells? Not personally, but I was posting what the expert said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjg Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Not personally, but I was posting what the expert said. I wonder if the expert is paid directly or in a roundabout way by the oil industry??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Don't think so. He is one of the cars reviewers in one of the major papers. His comment was around the economics and whether they are viable for the masses to take up. Ie the electric car is good to drive but with the recent and continuing rise in electricity it doesn't end up cheaper to run. Whether Hydrogen would be cheaper, I have no idea. These new technology cars tend to be extremely expensive to buy. I have no idea how to recharge a hydrogen car or what it would cost. Do you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjg Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Don't think so. He is one of the cars reviewers in one of the major papers. His comment was around the economics and whether they are viable for the masses to take up. Ie the electric car is good to drive but with the recent and continuing rise in electricity it doesn't end up cheaper to run. Whether Hydrogen would be cheaper, I have no idea. These new technology cars tend to be extremely expensive to buy. I have no idea how to recharge a hydrogen car or what it would cost. Do you ? Actually making the hydrogen is very easy, it just used a small amount of electricity and water. Reverse Osmosis. The storage in bulk, transport to a station, storage at the station and transfer to a vehicle are all issues due to the fact that hydrogen is more volatile and explosive than petrol. But it can be done. When more research is put into reducing risks we will be able to use it just as safely as petrol, which is an extremely volatile liquid itself. The by products of burning hydrogen are a little more environmentally healthy. Hydrogen burns in oxygen to form water vapour. No carbon dioxide, no carbon monoxide, no sulphur oxides. There will also be the formation of nitrogen oxides as there are in a petrol or Diesel engines due to the heat forcing the nitrogen and oxygen in the air to bond, but cats can also work on absorbing those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 i need to reply to this but im checking it just as im off to work! but pretty much lol hydrogen is crap RO is at best 50% efficent. petrol is super crap. and even if you charge a battery car on electricity from a coal power plant it emits less than half the carbon of the best petrol or diesel engine. wow all in one rather long sentence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 i need to reply to this but im checking it just as im off to work! but pretty much lol hydrogen is crap RO is at best 50% efficent. petrol is super crap. and even if you charge a battery car on electricity from a coal power plant it emits less than half the carbon of the best petrol or diesel engine. wow all in one rather long sentence! You might be right about emitting less carbon with the electric car but if it's no cheaper than running a petrol car there is no incentive for anyone to change. Electricity isn't going to get any cheaper over the next few years. A good option is LPG. I'm surprised a lot more don't have their car converted in Aus. All the taxi drivers in Perth used to run V6 fords converted to LPG. I like to have a chat with them when I get a taxi and a couple of points they make are the fords are really reliable, cheap to run on LPG and cheap to get fixed when they do go wrong. A few are moving to hybrids now but I've spoken to a couple of them and they say it's no cheaper than running a V6 LPG ford, not as nice and roomy to drive and the services and maintenance bills are a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 You might be right about emitting less carbon with the electric car but if it's no cheaper than running a petrol car there is no incentive for anyone to change. Electricity isn't going to get any cheaper over the next few years. A good option is LPG. I'm surprised a lot more don't have their car converted in Aus. All the taxi drivers in Perth used to run V6 fords converted to LPG. I like to have a chat with them when I get a taxi and a couple of points they make are the fords are really reliable, cheap to run on LPG and cheap to get fixed when they do go wrong. A few are moving to hybrids now but I've spoken to a couple of them and they say it's no cheaper than running a V6 LPG ford, not as nice and roomy to drive and the services and maintenance bills are a lot more. LPG isnt as cheap as you think anymore. It is currently around 90c a litre for LPG, and you need a lot more LPG to drive the same distance as petrol, so I think LPG isn't that great either. Although we have large resources of Gas close by, the price is tied to the middle East price for some reason, and apparantly due to freezing winters in the US we are paying more for our LPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 LPG isnt as cheap as you think anymore.It is currently around 90c a litre for LPG, and you need a lot more LPG to drive the same distance as petrol, so I think LPG isn't that great either. Although we have large resources of Gas close by, the price is tied to the middle East price for some reason, and apparantly due to freezing winters in the US we are paying more for our LPG. Everything is increasing in price though, including electricity, petrol and any other power source. Just a case of which one is going to increase more. At least we have LPG here and plenty of it. Just needs a lot of pressure kept on the government to keep a lot of the production in Aus at decent prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 You might be right about emitting less carbon with the electric car but if it's no cheaper than running a petrol car there is no incentive for anyone to change. Electricity isn't going to get any cheaper over the next few years. Well, if an electric car was as cheap to run as a petrol one, there would be environmental benefits. Electricity can also be generated, unlike fossil fuels like petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 i need to reply to this but im checking it just as im off to work! but pretty much lol hydrogen is crap RO is at best 50% efficent. petrol is super crap. and even if you charge a battery car on electricity from a coal power plant it emits less than half the carbon of the best petrol or diesel engine. wow all in one rather long sentence! No it is not. This is physics 101. You are taking energy from a fossil fuel (coal) and transforming it (burning it). Energy can never be created or destroyed but only transformed and with each transformation energy is lost from the system, so the more you transform it, the less efficient. So, you take coal (chemical energy), transform to heat, transform to kinetic, transform to electrical, tranform to, transform to a mix of potential and mechanical, transform to kinetic. Petrol (chemical energy) - you transform to heat, transform to mechanical, trnaform to kinetic. Petrol is moe efficient and will require less energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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