Does £60k household income mean your rich?

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Labour: Miliband outlines 'cost of living crisis' plans

 

 

Labour leader Ed Miliband: "It is wrong that millions of people in our country are going out to work, unable to afford to bring up their families." He has set out plans to tackle what he calls the UK's "cost of living crisis", after arriving in Brighton for the party conference.

 

 

Mr Miliband promised to reverse controversial changes to housing benefit and extend childcare. He also pledged to increase the minimum wage to help with the cost of living.

 

 

Meanwhile a senior party figure has said people earning £60,000 were "not rich" and the tax rise focus should be "the privileged few rifght at the top".

 

 

Mr Miliband said he wanted to "send a very clear signal" that it was wrong that millions of working people in the UK could not afford to bring up their families properly. Different sectors, such as finance, IT or construction, would be examined to see if they could afford to pay a higher rate to their staff. He would end the "epidemic" of zero-hour contracts.

 

Mr Miliband said the housing benefit cut - affecting social tenants in England, Scotland and Wales deemed to have spare bedrooms - would be scrapped. Even though the economy is beginning to grow, Mr Miliband argues it's not being felt in most people's pockets. He said the minimum wage had fallen behind inflation and the party has asked Alan Buckle, deputy chairman at accountants KPMG, to investigate how the wage could rise.

 

 

The party has also suggested it would not raise income tax for people earning £60,000 a year. This flurry of policies is meant to answer critics who say that Labour doesn't have many.

 

 

Critics have called the cut a "bedroom tax" however the government said it was tackling a "spare room subsidy" which was unavailable in the private room sector, and that the £23bn-a-year housing benefit bill must be cut. "Abolishing the bedroom tax. Strengthening the national minimum wage. Childcare there for parents who need it.

 

 

The Labour leader added that the national minimum wage was "one of the proudest achievements of the last Labour government" but it was falling behind price rises under the coalition government. He pledged to strengthen it. If the national minimum wage had risen in line with the cost of living it would be 45p an hour higher than the current level, which is due to rise next month from £6.19 to £6.31, he explained.

 

 

Mr Miliband criticised Mr Cameron's record as one of "tax cuts for millionaires, tax cuts for hedge funds, tobacco lobbyists in Downing Street" "The focus should be on those privileged few right at the top, and that's not people earning £50,000 or £60,000 a year," she said.

 

 

"If you're a single-earner family in the South East on (that income), you don't feel particularly rich, and you'd be aggrieved that people earning between £150,000 and £1 million are getting a tax cut."

 

 

The average annual wage of full-time workers in the UK was £26,500 in the year to April 2012, according to figures published by the Office for National Statistics in its annual survey of hours and earnings last November.

There's a number of topics for discussion here, I think he needs a lot more ideas like these to get back in power if I'm honest. What does anyone think about the comment saying that earning £60k doesn't mean your rich?

[CaptainR]

60k isn't a lot these days, the cost of living has increased considerably and the difference between rich and poor seems to be ever expanding.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

60k isn't a lot these days, the cost of living has increased considerably and the difference between rich and poor seems to be ever expanding.

 

 

I suppose your right, I just looked at the figure and thought it was an odd comment. I read somewhere that over 10 million households live on £25k or less, I can't recall where I read it, which again made me look twice at the £60k figure, I don't know how they live bringing up a family, having a mortgage, bills, loans, food and clothes, etc, on £25k TBH.

[CollegeGirl]

My elderly mother and stepfather live on the equivalent of £16k in the US (and no retirement savings.. don't get me started!!!) and aren't even considered "poverty level." I make about £22.4, and that's more than my mom ever made at any job she ever had before she retired. I'm very lucky in that my fiance makes much more, but yes - £60k seems very rich to me given that perspective. That said, I'm rapidly learning just how far that kind of salary does NOT go when you take into account astronomical immigration costs.

[CaptainR]

We live off considerably more then that, but we don't have a particularly fancy lifestyle. We live in company provided housing, we use vouchers when we eat out (which is rarely), we have a very modest car, I have to carefully add up how much I'm spending on groceries and live mostly off fresh fruit and veg rather then anything more expensive, we haven't had a proper holiday this year except for a few days away and we still aren't in a position where we could put a decent deposit on a house in Australia in a nice area if we moved there now.

Seriously, I think in the UK, living on 25k with a family cannot be easy and I know that my sisters family lives on very little more then that and sadly don't get the choice of schools or lifetsyle we do.

[oz bound pom]

I wouldn't go as far as saying it would be 'rich', to me that means having pretty much more money than you know what to do with and never having to worry about financial issues ever again.

 

I do think it is, depending on where you live (i note milliband qualifies his statement by referencing living in the SE) enough to make most people fall into the very comfortable bracket and that in most peoples cases it is only the desire to keep up with the joneses, or spend/waste* (delete as applicable) their income on the latest gadget etc that makes them feel 'poor'.

I realise that migrating is a huge expense to most people but it is a choice, not a right as are most things in life. I mean there is a guy in the office who is seriously contemplating spending £80quid a month so he can have a nice shiny gold (oh please) iphone 5s for a tenner, yet complains he doesn't get paid enough and ''can't afford his own place''. So glad to see so many people have their priorities right.

 

No matter how much you earn unless you know the value of money, enough is never enough.

[CaptainR]

Yes, totally understand that with the phones. I can barely afford my old Nokia....

[BritChickx]

Well it's rich to me, i'll never earn 60k! Me and Paul earn half of that between us! I still wouldn't consider it as being rich, more like very comfortable.

[nikki244]

I wouldn't consider 60k to be rich, more like comfortable with no worries about paying the bills, and some money left over for decent holidays. But then we are a family of 7, so I guess we need more to keep us afloat than a couple without kids, or even a family with, say, only a couple of kids.

 

To me, rich is not having to work ever again, and still knowing you'll have money to spare.

[Counting Stars]

No I don't think it makes someone rich. Comfortable (in my eyes) but not rich xx

[zk2102]

I think it depends where you live to be honest, and the size of your family etc..

It's on par with what we earn as a family but it doesn't go very far. We have one car, two kids & a dog. Live in a small semi and holiday in a tent down in Cornwall every year.

[VERYSTORMY]

I earn more than that and would certainly not regard us as rich! Also, because of tax, it is a lot less than two people earning 30k each.

 

As for the rest of the article, I would support the introduction of a living wage. But, this has to be accompanied by the end of all benefits for people in work. It would also have to include cuts to company tax to make it worthwhile for employers not to cut staff. One would obviously pay for the other.

[k8bug79]

I think it depends n your family situation. I know at one point earning 40K was seen as a good wage where a recent documentary showed that by todays standards it offered a very mundane existence. it sat right between the lower bands who got assistance and the higher well paid workers so actually many found it more of a struggle than those who earn 25K. However I agree with britchix if there is just the 2 of you earning 60K would feel very comfortable. I know I worked out that with mine and my husbands wages and assistance for ctc and housing benefit that our household income was between 60K I worked out to be better off our wages alone would have to be nearly 70K which was twice what they were. I have often said that there is no reward in the Uk for hard working families however I don't think the government should be providing tax breaks to allow families to have holidays etc. But then again holidays offer a snapshot of other cultures and experience that is vital for children. Answer to the question no it's not rich tho

[flag of convenience]

I earn more than that and would certainly not regard us as rich! Also, because of tax, it is a lot less than two people earning 30k each.

 

As for the rest of the article, I would support the introduction of a living wage. But, this has to be accompanied by the end of all benefits for people in work. It would also have to include cuts to company tax to make it worthwhile for employers not to cut staff. One would obviously pay for the other.

 

Cuts to company tax do not ensure business would not cut staff. Increased returns (profit) being the goal of most business by whatever means.

[flag of convenience]

Depends on lifestyle. Some are never rich regardless of income. Hard to put a mandatory figure on what is rich.

[wolvesaussie]

I do wonder what some of you lot do with your money, I was on 35k in the UK, girlfriend on 25k... Had a posh city centre apparentment in Birmingham as well as a house I rented out in Wolves to students, went on about 6 foreign holidays a year (every school holiday plus bank holidays weekends) Safari in Kenya, Borneo treking, New York, lots of european breaks. 60k is very comfortable , if we werent doing all that travelling we would have been able to save my girlfriend wage completely.We eat out 3 times a week (some times at weatherspoons )

 

I wouldnt say its rich but if u dont by silly stuff (like expensive cars) its more than enough to live a great life.

[Peach]

I do wonder what some of you lot do with your money, I was on 35k in the UK, girlfriend on 25k... Had a posh city centre apparentment in Birmingham as well as a house I rented out in Wolves to students, went on about 6 foreign holidays a year (every school holiday plus bank holidays weekends) Safari in Kenya, Borneo treking, New York, lots of european breaks. 60k is very comfortable , if we werent doing all that travelling we would have been able to save my girlfriend wage completely.We eat out 3 times a week (some times at weatherspoons )

 

I wouldnt say its rich but if u dont by silly stuff (like expensive cars) its more than enough to live a great life.

 

Try living in the south-east with two kids in daycare, a hefty mortgage and an expensive train commute to work :biggrin: (things I don't miss)

[paul1977]

If you earned 60k in the uk and are coming to Australia going on the 2.2 theory then is 132 k enough here..?

[wolvesaussie]

I suppose so , I must admit I have no idea how much kids cost, but surely if we had cut down on the holidays we would have been able to afford to feed them

[akiralx]

I would support the introduction of a living wage. But, this has to be accompanied by the end of all benefits for people in work.

This is the major issue, the practice of employers driving down wages so that families where both parents work full time need state topups to survive. 'Middle class welfare' should not be necessary. Employers in recent years have taken the view for many jobs that instead of offering a fair salary, they will just offer the minimum wage and find someone who is desperate enough to accept it and who will make a reasonable effort at the role. Zero hours contracts are the next step, and will be imposed on more and more people.

[fourcorners]

If you earned 60k in the uk and are coming to Australia going on the 2.2 theory then is 132 k enough here..?

 

Yes I think it is, that's roughly what I earn and we live off my wage, I can even save $3k a month towards savings and holidays. My partners wage is about the same but that goes straight back to the UK to pay off our mortgage. We don't spend much on luxuries, usually have one big holiday a year but even then we camp and do things on the cheap. We are tight arses with no desire for any of the latest gadgets and toys, but that's the reason we've been able to pay off 100k off our mortgage in 2 years. When we do return to the UK I reckon we'll be on a combined salary of about 60k, but with no mortgage I hope we'll feel comparatively quite well off.

 

People have different mindsets though, a lot of people earning what we do here in Australia would be buying flash landcruisers, boats, quad bikes and the like, purely because they could. We have the view that the money we earn is not ours, not whilst we're in debt to a bank. We just don't want that millstone around our necks for another 20 years.

[VERYSTORMY]

This is the major issue, the practice of employers driving down wages so that families where both parents work full time need state topups to survive. 'Middle class welfare' should not be necessary. Employers in recent years have taken the view for many jobs that instead of offering a fair salary, they will just offer the minimum wage and find someone who is desperate enough to accept it and who will make a reasonable effort at the role. Zero hours contracts are the next step, and will be imposed on more and more people.

 

To be honest, I don't understand the fuss about zero hour contracts. There have always been huge amounts of people who did just that but were simply called temps. I was for a couple of years a recruitment consultant in the industrial and food sector. I had hundreds of staff who would turn up for work on a morning and I would allocate them work and the ones I had no work for were sent home. I was just one consultant in one of many similar agencies.

 

This isn't new. Heck, there are entire industries that have always operated on it. I have family that have worked on the docks all their lives and it has always been the case. They turn up, if there is no ship in to load, they get sent home. It seems it has just become a big thing because some of the press have decided to make it one.

[jen85]

As an outsider who knows not much of UK politics I like what he has said I think it is all very relevant from what I saw when I was in the UK.

[LizzyTinKnicks]

To be honest, I don't understand the fuss about zero hour contracts. There have always been huge amounts of people who did just that but were simply called temps. I was for a couple of years a recruitment consultant in the industrial and food sector. I had hundreds of staff who would turn up for work on a morning and I would allocate them work and the ones I had no work for were sent home. I was just one consultant in one of many similar agencies.

 

This isn't new. Heck, there are entire industries that have always operated on it. I have family that have worked on the docks all their lives and it has always been the case. They turn up, if there is no ship in to load, they get sent home. It seems it has just become a big thing because some of the press have decided to make it one.

 

Workers/temps on casual contracts is what you're describing here. No problem with those. Zero hours contracts are very different- you're tied to that employer and unable to go for other jobs in the time when you're not working for the zero hours employer. That's why such a big deal is being made of it- it gives all the power to the employer.

[k8bug79]

I suppose so , I must admit I have no idea how much kids cost, but surely if we had cut down on the holidays we would have been able to afford to feed them

 

But would you be able to pay for full time childcare to keep both your incomes? The difference between a couple at 60 and a family at 60 is that you get no assistance with childcare. My childcare costs have been approx 500-700 a week when they were all in need of childcare and no funding. I was lucky to receive help but if you were on 60K you wouldn't and therefore suddenly you have a huge financial burden just to try and stay afloat, and one wage of 35k might only be just enough to survive on, that's about what me and my husband brought home between us last year and we could afford no extras whatsoever. Although our lifestyle wasn't too shabby, reasonably nice house in a nice area with 2 cars on the drive, even if they were old and driving with your breath held that the wouldn't give up the ghost.

 

I think it's very difficult to understand what some people find important to spend money on and what they simply can't do without.