Incata Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Remind me why I just took a break :rolleyes: To hear some talk, you would think that Australia would be on it's heels if they only employed those grads, from all disciplines, that come out of Oz education and rise to be experts in their fields.....................or is it the "Euro educated" that have got Oz to where it is today? Welcome back, we missed you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 If that was the case, the government would not be maintaining the record rates of around 200,000 immigrants a year. No they are looking at all ways and means to raise revenue. Besides the government has vested interests in maintaining and growing the over inflated housing market. Have you not worked out the difference between state and federal govt? I can assure you that the labour fed govt, and the state liberal govt, do not have the same agenda, and may very well be working at cross purposes. How much revenue will this raise? Pittance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Remind me why I just took a break :rolleyes: To hear some talk, you would think that Australia would be on it's heels if they only employed those grads, from all disciplines, that come out of Oz education and rise to be experts in their fields.....................or is it the "Euro educated" that have got Oz to where it is today? No due to Euro educated facing great difficulty getting into the protected Australian workplace environment. Ok for Brits, but hard for those coming from Northern European systems like Germany, Netherlands, etc. There is a reason and it has little tgo do with the local system being in any way superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Have you not worked out the difference between state and federal govt? I can assure you that the labour fed govt, and the state liberal govt, do not have the same agenda, and may very well be working at cross purposes. How much revenue will this raise? Pittance. Both parties at a Federal level support high immigration. I have yet to hear contrary in recent Liberal policy. I would say State government not too unhappy to date. Not heard the WA lot ask for a reversal of Perth's status of being a priority immigration centre. Or have I missed something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Both parties at a Federal level support high immigration. I have yet to hear contrary in recent Liberal policy. I would say State government not too unhappy to date. Not heard the WA lot ask for a reversal of Perth's status of being a priority immigration centre. Or have I missed something? How many 457's are there in Perth? How many have school age kids? Are we talking maybe $10 mil in revenues if that? I'm guessing - but I wouldn't be surprised if it was about that figures. Just a drop in the ocean. But look at the political advantage. They can soap box and say how they are stopping foreigners from taking jobs. And they will stop a few. But not that many. But it gives them a drum to bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 How many 457's are there in Perth? How many have school age kids? Are we talking maybe $10 mil in revenues if that? I'm guessing - but I wouldn't be surprised if it was about that figures. Just a drop in the ocean. But look at the political advantage. They can soap box and say how they are stopping foreigners from taking jobs. And they will stop a few. But not that many. But it gives them a drum to bang. The crux of the matter for me is how the 457 became diluted over time. I'm neutral on the regressive nature of the latest changes. Firstly is it fact that it is regressive? If so I can of course see the unfairness. At the same time if these folk are in such short supply then the sponsor should pick up the price tag. I mean surely they want to keep their sponsored investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) I don't know anything about school education as we don't have children. But, the quality of undergrad education is dire. Or at least that is what I have seen in my own discipline. I have recruited a number of Oz new grads and they have all been at the equivalent standard of a first year grad from a UK uni. In fact, a number I would say would not not pass first year and we mainly recruited from the top ranking depts in Oz - UWA and CODES. Bingo! I have a six year old daughter in state school now. The school is also a "high performing" school, oh and due to work this is my daughters second school. My wife is a teacher by background (ed psych, early years etc, and has taught at state and private). She knows a thing or two! the education in Oz state is not as good as a good private. Sorry, I am a good Taff, hate the idea of class system, private schools, etc. I am just not willing to not give my kid the best chance. Oh yes, forgot to add the teachers are parochial, lazy and defensive. This does not help an already flawed scheme. Be very careful about how you approach the Aussie teachers. I have seen a number of parents come unstuck. Regards Edited August 11, 2013 by Doc 53 Add detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Bingo! Oh yes, forgot to add the teachers are parochial, lazy and defensive. This does not help an already flawed scheme. Be very careful about how you approach the Aussie teachers. I have seen a number of parents come unstuck. Regards What a load of rubbish. So easy to insult a whole group of people by nationality, hey? I work with lots of Aussie educators in the state system and from vast experience can easily refute everything you have just said. As in any profession (and any nationality) there are high performers and then lesser ones...It is far too easy to group everyone together under the one banner or stereotype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) What a load of rubbish. So easy to insult a whole group of people by nationality, hey? I work with lots of Aussie educators in the state system and from vast experience can easily refute everything you have just said. As in any profession (and any nationality) there are high performers and then lesser ones...It is far too easy to group everyone together under the one banner or stereotype. Sorry mate, I work in an industry where I am lucky enough to see a massive cross section. Add to that the fact we spent aaaagggggesssssss looking for schools and I feel we are equipped to comment. Answer this. Why does every single Aussie I know put/are looking to put there kids in private education? And I really do mean every Aussie I know. The only people I see not debating it are us immigrants! You can have your opinion. I can have mine. Mine is this. The Aussy education system is woeful, needlessly so. The system here school for school is not as good as the UK. I have not formed this view from Hersey but com observations. It will taken a lot of convincing for me to change this opinion. I am all brave on here, what with it being the Internet and all. I would not dream of trying to explain any of this to an Australian, they are immensely proud, sometimes to their detriment. i recently had to laugh at my australian peers. They were all really bitching and chaffing about the recent run of Aussy defeats, lions, etc. Not one of them seemed to make the link between sport for kids being so expensive and the downturn in Ozzy sporting prowess. You know the kids in schol here are lucky to do one hour a week in sport and pay for every after school sport. This includes football. Kids even pay for swimming lessons in school pools!! Oh and NPLAN (school league results for education) is fiddled, openly. All the duffers get taken on day trips the day of the test. Very few schools are honest with this (only one I know is Varsity Lakes) on the Gold Coast where all students take the tests. Sorry if this offends, it really is the opinion I have formed. Regards Edited August 11, 2013 by Doc 53 Add detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosiew Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Sorry mate, I work in an industry where I am lucky enough to see a massive cross section. Add to that the fact we spent aaaagggggesssssss looking for schools and I feel we equipped to comment. Answer this. Why does every single Aussie I know put/are looking to put there kids in private education? And I really do mean every Aussie I know. The only people I see not debating it are us immigrants! You can have your opinion. I can have mine. Mine is this. The Aussy education system is woeful, needlessly so. The system here school for school is not as good as the UK. I have not formed this view from Hersey but com observations. It will taken a lot of convincing for me to change this opinion. I am all brave on here, what with it being the Internet and all. I would not dream of trying to explain any of this to an Australian, they are immensely proud, sometimes to their detriment. Sorry if this offends, it really is the opinion I have formed. Regards Are you judging the whole of Australia by where you live? Which I am guessing is Perth? We have state education systems - by all means bag WA all you like, but leave the rest of us to be judged by those who live elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Sorry mate, I work in an industry where I am lucky enough to see a massive cross section. Add to that the fact we spent aaaagggggesssssss looking for schools and I feel we are equipped to comment. Answer this. Why does every single Aussie I know put/are looking to put there kids in private education? And I really do mean every Aussie I know. The only people I see not debating it are us immigrants! You can have your opinion. I can have mine. Mine is this. The Aussy education system is woeful, needlessly so. The system here school for school is not as good as the UK. I have not formed this view from Hersey but com observations. It will taken a lot of convincing for me to change this opinion. I am all brave on here, what with it being the Internet and all. I would not dream of trying to explain any of this to an Australian, they are immensely proud, sometimes to their detriment. i recently had to laugh at my australian peers. They were all really bitching and chaffing about the recent run of Aussy defeats, lions, etc. Not one of them seemed to make the link between sport for kids being so expensive and the downturn in Ozzy sporting prowess. You know the kids in schol here are lucky to do one hour a week in sport and pay for every after school sport. This includes football. Kids even pay for swimming lessons in school pools!! Oh and NPLAN (school league results for education) is fiddled, openly. All the duffers get taken on day trips the day of the test. Very few schools are honest with this (only one I know is Varsity Lakes) on the Gold Coast where all students take the tests. Sorry if this offends, it really is the opinion I have formed. Regards So do you only know the posh rich ones? I have been here 4 years and know lots of Aussies and not one has their kids in Private Education! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) Sorry mate, I work in an industry where I am lucky enough to see a massive cross section. Add to that the fact we spent aaaagggggesssssss looking for schools and I feel we are equipped to comment. Answer this. Why does every single Aussie I know put/are looking to put there kids in private education? And I really do mean every Aussie I know. The only people I see not debating it are us immigrants! You can have your opinion. I can have mine. Mine is this. The Aussy education system is woeful, needlessly so. The system here school for school is not as good as the UK. I have not formed this view from Hersey but com observations. It will taken a lot of convincing for me to change this opinion. I am all brave on here, what with it being the Internet and all. I would not dream of trying to explain any of this to an Australian, they are immensely proud, sometimes to their detriment. i recently had to laugh at my australian peers. They were all really bitching and chaffing about the recent run of Aussy defeats, lions, etc. Not one of them seemed to make the link between sport for kids being so expensive and the downturn in Ozzy sporting prowess. You know the kids in schol here are lucky to do one hour a week in sport and pay for every after school sport. This includes football. Kids even pay for swimming lessons in school pools!! Oh and NPLAN (school league results for education) is fiddled, openly. All the duffers get taken on day trips the day of the test. Very few schools are honest with this (only one I know is Varsity Lakes) on the Gold Coast where all students take the tests. Sorry if this offends, it really is the opinion I have formed. Regards Again, misinformed and way too broad a comment, but ok if you must, every single teacher and Principal I know have their child in a good state school - me included. By the way, it is NAPLAN and not 'NPLAN'. It certainly is not 'fiddled'. Your ill informed comment just made me laugh - thank you. Edited August 11, 2013 by Sammy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) Again, misinformed and way too broad a comment, but ok if you must, every single teacher and Principal I know have their child in a good state school - me included. By the way, it is NAPLAN and not 'NPLAN'. It certainly is not 'fiddled'. Your ill informed comment just made me laugh - thank you. I am in QLD. Actually I made a typo. I am typing on an IPad. as I explained in my post I know, and work with engineers, labourers, project directors et-al. All want there kids out of state education (with the exception maybe of Brissy Gram school. if you are a teacher or a principal could you not provide a better argument to my observations? Am I wrong on distortion of the NAPLAN results by institutions? Does Australia out perform comparable countries? Is provision of sport and PE in schools bountiful? You failed to answer any of these, instead focusing on a typo. As I said I have my view. the teaching here is bad. Forgot to add it was a principal who explained how the NAPLAN is fiddled. His kids go,to private. Regards Edited August 11, 2013 by Doc 53 Correct NAPLAN and stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I am in QLD How nice for you, but it is still called NAPLAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 How nice for you, but it is still called NAPLAN. It is still a typo. hang on, we may be out of sych here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I am in QLD. Actually I made a typo. I am typing on an IPad. as I explained in my post I know, and work with engineers, labourers, project directors et-al. All want there kids out of state education (with the exception maybe of Brissy Gram school. if you are a teacher or a principal could you not provide a better argument to my observations? Am I wrong on distortion of the NAPLAN results by institutions? Does Australia out perform comparable countries? Is provision of sport and PE in schools bountiful? You failed to answer any of these, instead focusing on a typo. As I said I have my view. the teaching here is bad. Forgot to add it was a principal who explained how the NAPLAN is fiddled. His kids go,to private. Regards Ok, I just can't help myself (sorry). It is 'their kids' and not 'there kids'. Perhaps the situation is worse in Queensland? Here we have 'active after school sports' which is completely free and run weekly outside of school hours. We also have far more than one hour of sport a week within school time. NAPLAN is not 'fiddled', except perhaps in some private schools where students are not admitted if they have weak grades or they are encouraged not to sit the tests.This artificially produces higher results for some private schools, thus adding to the misconception (by you) that private schools are all better than state.. State schools do not distort the tests in any way whatsoever. A Principal would be automatically deregistered for doing so. I also work with a broad variety of people and as I previously commented, all the teachers and Principals I know send their children to good state schools - yes they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I certainly did go to state school....... In the UK, very rough state school in the UK. It still had better teaching and educational standards than the kids here seem to be getting. My wife is practically having to teach my child everything outside school hours. This is time she should be playing, not having to be re-taught subject matter. And yes my kid is very bright (takes after her mother)! I know my comments and opinions may not please everyone but they originate from my observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) Ok, I just can't help myself (sorry). It is 'their kids' and not 'there kids'. Perhaps the situation is worse in Queensland? Here we have 'active after school sports' which is completely free and run weekly outside of school hours. We also have far more than one hour of sport a week within school time. NAPLAN is not 'fiddled', except perhaps in some private schools where students are not admitted if they have weak grades or they are encouraged not to sit the tests.This artificially produces higher results for some private schools, thus adding to the misconception (by you) that private schools are all better than state.. State schools do not distort the tests in any way whatsoever. A Principal would be automatically deregistered for doing so. I also work with a broad variety of people and as I previously commented, all the teachers and Principals I know send their children to good state schools - yes they exist. Sammy, If you are a teacher you really typify everything that is wrong with education. Defensive and lazy. I have explained I am typing on an IPad, I have no intention of proof reading every post. If you have a point to make make it. But please make it pertinent. Make it about how in the 2009 stats Australia outperformed the UK in OECD rankings, or how the Australian department for education is not very happy with the most recent PIRLS results. Do not try and pick me up for spelling and grammar. I spend all day correcting the appalling results of the education system you are a part of. I am entitled to my opinion. I have stated where my opinion originated, have you, other than you are a teacher and feel the need to defend you profession? forgot to add: you are wrong in regard to all state schools put kids through test. I am not saying you are lying here, but I am saying you are wrong. Even if you were not wrong, how could a test that is openly subverted by private schools be trusted? Do these kids not come under the state and national stats? you have not helped to change my view on state education here. Edited August 11, 2013 by Doc 53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Sammy, If you are a teacher you really typify everything that is wrong with education. Defensive and lazy. I have explained I am typing on an IPad, I have no intention of proof reading every post. If you have a point to make make it. But please make it pertinent. Make it about how in the 2009 stats Australia outperformed the UK in OECD rankings, or how the Australian department for education is not very happy with the most recent PIRLS results. Do not try and pick me up for spelling and grammar. I spend all day correcting the appalling results of the education system you are a part of. I am entitled to my opinion. I have stated where my opinion originated, have you, other than you are a teacher and feel the need to defend you profession? Thank you for defining me as a teacher. Defensive? How interesting. Sorry, but your posts are so narrow minded and ill informed that it is very hard not to reply with some good old logic and common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Please can we discuss the subject (which was paying for schooling on a 457) and not other posters or topics. Feel free to start a new thread in the Education section if the standard of teaching is what you want to discuss. Thanks Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Damn it, we are out of synch again. Please provide logic and common sense? it appears all you provided was some proof reading. look, we are not going to agree on this, why don't we just leave it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Sorry Cal, will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Back on thread, I think the govt etc doing this to 457 holders is appalling. I also think it is a mistake long term. i do think the 457 visa did get abused, but the solution was in enforcement of the visa rules (only to be used as last resortbetc), not punishment of the visa holders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 So 457s take away a bogan education then. Still has to be paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 So 457s take away a bogan education then. Still has to be paid for. You are a bad person. p:biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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