Doc 53

Not correct I am afraid. You also need to account for earth fault loop impedance and its effect on tripping times and co-ordination between breakers. The best method for understanding cable calculations is spreadsheets, Microsoft office being the most used (although the stuff on Linux that is free is just as good). In the real world full sequence for cable sizing should be: - max demand for DB (using AS 3000 is fine for basic sites, custom calculation is required for complex projects. The later allows the use of diversities to establish load profiles between major load groups). You need to make sure here motor inrush etc to co-ordinate with breaker setting. - dearate cables for ambient temperature, installation method, grouping of load carrying circuits and cable type. - apply cable length to confirm volt drop - apply cable length to calculate adult level at end of cable. Use this value to establish tripping within AS3000 rules, and protection co-ordintates. At this point you may need to use a larger breaker than the required load, to achieve co-ordination/discrimination. This may result in larger cables being required. - confirm cable size meets requirement of the a diabetic equation for withstand of temperature rise during fault condition, at origin of cable. Sound familiar? It should, AS 3008 (cable selection) directly aligns with IEC60364 (international standard for electrical installation in buildings) which also aligns with BSEN7671 (requirements for Electrical installations). unsurprisingly any major installations will be carried out in computer software like powercad/cable calc/powerpak. Be warned all have short comings!

Ok, I lived on the Gold Coast and have relocated to Brisbane and I work for a major Construction Contractor. In my Role I work all over Qld and the NT. I explain this so you understand that I have a grasp of what is going on here right now. The post is in now way angled to be negative it is merely information for you to consider. All the places you mention are stunning, unfortunately they are also struggling at the moment in terms of construction, albeit there are a few large projects on. If you do live on the Gold Coast / Sunshine Coast / etc be prepared for a long commute (1-1.5 hrs commute) and a $20 a day (roughly) train ticket. Parking is expensive here. Factor these costs in, as well as the effect on your family life. By the way I know plenty of guys that do the commute from Gold/Sunny Coast into Brisbane. It is not for me. FWIW I also notice how tired these guys look and how little time they have for fitness/personal affairs etc. Also be aware you may get a job now at the construction for a hospital, prison, whatever. Consider however what happens when that project finishes. The construction market (particularly in Qld) can be very closed to friends/families/contacts (who not what you know) and at the moment the job market is VERY competitive. Ask around on this site (and others) for opinions of carpenters working here in Qld now, and how they think you would get on coming into the job market cold. I cannot stress this enough. DO NOT COME ON A 457/WHATEVER TEMP VISA WHERE YOUR EMPLOYER CAN HOLD YOU BY THE VITALS! Temp visas are dodgy enough in the good times. They are even more dodgy with the economy being weak. A permanent visa is expensive and time consuming but you are your own man. I came on a perm visa and after seeing what happens in the 457 arena would not consider doing it any other way. i suppose 457's for nurses/doctors/inter company etc a bit different, but for "normal circumstance" I would not recommend it. Also do your research with the schools. As with the UK there cane be considerable variation between school standards and amenities. That is it right now, any questions I will try to answer. Me and my family love it here, but as with life anywhere for mere mortals there are things we need to think about. Oh also check out the Brisbane County Council websites for parking fees and the JP journey planner for travel times/costs. No point in living in paradise if you cannot afford or have no time to do anything.

I actually thought we agreed on a few things. i will be frank here, I think this cheap political shot will be abused by large employers. They will be able to use the excuse of fewer professional 457 visa holders as an excuse to off shore work (you would be amazed at how many projects are now designed in Malaysia, Vietnam etc, even government jobs) or fly workers in en masse (ala Reinhardt). i really think this move will screw over the small man in may ways, from the 457's, to the Aussie job markethaving work taken away wholesale.

Forgot to add, reason I am a bit miffed about these charges for education being applied retrospectively to 457 visa holds is that they will never have seen it coming. It took control from them that they had befor.

Actually TTT, i am quite relaxed. This due mainly to making informed choices. i will say again. On balance Oz is better for my family. It is however, as with all countries not perfect. why defend what needs change?

Hmmmm, check PILS and TIMSS, UK is ahead there, Oz performed bad enough here that people are concerned. Anyhow, my observations are based on what I have seen locally, not global studies. As I said, my choice. look I recant everything I say. Oz, has no problems, the schools are performing the best anywhere in the world and moving to Oz will be a panacea for all life's ills. The polies are great, focusing on all the main issues at hand and the revenue from the mining boom has been wisely invested. the country is a manufacturing powerhouse, unemployment is at zero, the country is awash with Intellectual property, crime is lower than rural Berkshire and bikies are really nice people. Oh and they have no immigration problems whatsoever. There that better? i have a better life here. It does not mean the country is perfect. It does not mean all people will have ac better life here.

Right, To recap: - So you were hppy with the local state, so you sent him there. Right got that, this is what I would do if I were happy with one of the local schools. - So education is really important. Right got that, it is what we are talking about. Sounds like we agree on a lot. Quite why you have such a bee in your bonnet is beyond me. I am entitled to my opinion.

People have cause for complaint because agreements that affect people's commitments are being changed retrospectively for a cheap political point. It is unfair in every sense. i think it will also affect Oz badly for years to come.

MTT, I do not wantnto go too far off topic again. the reason I am in Australia is that I can offer my family a better way of life here. That does not mean I have o accept all the negative points if it is in my power to effect change. Why would anyone? I have a good standard of life here with my family, however I have made choices for my child also. I need to prepare her for if she wants to work or study abroad. My choice.

Read my posts. where did I say the kids were ferrel? I did not. where did I say the standard of teaching I had seen was poor? I did lots. The private schools (here in qld at least), on the whole out perform state. I stand by the NAPLAN statement. Some schools send all kids (I know of one), a lot don't. i have my opinion. Am I happy that I feel I need to send my kid private? No, I am furious. I will however not take a chance with my child's education.

The answer is to not charge for services that they have been taxed for. If the 457 is not fit for purpose end it. Do not punish people who already have them by changing rules, vindictively.

You are a bad person. p:biggrin:

Back on thread, I think the govt etc doing this to 457 holders is appalling. I also think it is a mistake long term. i do think the 457 visa did get abused, but the solution was in enforcement of the visa rules (only to be used as last resortbetc), not punishment of the visa holders.

Sorry Cal, will do.

Damn it, we are out of synch again. Please provide logic and common sense? it appears all you provided was some proof reading. look, we are not going to agree on this, why don't we just leave it?

Sammy, If you are a teacher you really typify everything that is wrong with education. Defensive and lazy. I have explained I am typing on an IPad, I have no intention of proof reading every post. If you have a point to make make it. But please make it pertinent. Make it about how in the 2009 stats Australia outperformed the UK in OECD rankings, or how the Australian department for education is not very happy with the most recent PIRLS results. Do not try and pick me up for spelling and grammar. I spend all day correcting the appalling results of the education system you are a part of. I am entitled to my opinion. I have stated where my opinion originated, have you, other than you are a teacher and feel the need to defend you profession? forgot to add: you are wrong in regard to all state schools put kids through test. I am not saying you are lying here, but I am saying you are wrong. Even if you were not wrong, how could a test that is openly subverted by private schools be trusted? Do these kids not come under the state and national stats? you have not helped to change my view on state education here.

I certainly did go to state school....... In the UK, very rough state school in the UK. It still had better teaching and educational standards than the kids here seem to be getting. My wife is practically having to teach my child everything outside school hours. This is time she should be playing, not having to be re-taught subject matter. And yes my kid is very bright (takes after her mother)! I know my comments and opinions may not please everyone but they originate from my observations.

It is still a typo. hang on, we may be out of sych here.

I am in QLD. Actually I made a typo. I am typing on an IPad. as I explained in my post I know, and work with engineers, labourers, project directors et-al. All want there kids out of state education (with the exception maybe of Brissy Gram school. if you are a teacher or a principal could you not provide a better argument to my observations? Am I wrong on distortion of the NAPLAN results by institutions? Does Australia out perform comparable countries? Is provision of sport and PE in schools bountiful? You failed to answer any of these, instead focusing on a typo. As I said I have my view. the teaching here is bad. Forgot to add it was a principal who explained how the NAPLAN is fiddled. His kids go,to private. Regards

Sorry mate, I work in an industry where I am lucky enough to see a massive cross section. Add to that the fact we spent aaaagggggesssssss looking for schools and I feel we are equipped to comment. Answer this. Why does every single Aussie I know put/are looking to put there kids in private education? And I really do mean every Aussie I know. The only people I see not debating it are us immigrants! You can have your opinion. I can have mine. Mine is this. The Aussy education system is woeful, needlessly so. The system here school for school is not as good as the UK. I have not formed this view from Hersey but com observations. It will taken a lot of convincing for me to change this opinion. I am all brave on here, what with it being the Internet and all. I would not dream of trying to explain any of this to an Australian, they are immensely proud, sometimes to their detriment. i recently had to laugh at my australian peers. They were all really bitching and chaffing about the recent run of Aussy defeats, lions, etc. Not one of them seemed to make the link between sport for kids being so expensive and the downturn in Ozzy sporting prowess. You know the kids in schol here are lucky to do one hour a week in sport and pay for every after school sport. This includes football. Kids even pay for swimming lessons in school pools!! Oh and NPLAN (school league results for education) is fiddled, openly. All the duffers get taken on day trips the day of the test. Very few schools are honest with this (only one I know is Varsity Lakes) on the Gold Coast where all students take the tests. Sorry if this offends, it really is the opinion I have formed. Regards

Bingo! I have a six year old daughter in state school now. The school is also a "high performing" school, oh and due to work this is my daughters second school. My wife is a teacher by background (ed psych, early years etc, and has taught at state and private). She knows a thing or two! the education in Oz state is not as good as a good private. Sorry, I am a good Taff, hate the idea of class system, private schools, etc. I am just not willing to not give my kid the best chance. Oh yes, forgot to add the teachers are parochial, lazy and defensive. This does not help an already flawed scheme. Be very careful about how you approach the Aussie teachers. I have seen a number of parents come unstuck. Regards

If you really believe that you are shockingly insular. the 457 visa is an arrangement between the state, an employer and the applicant. Each has obligations that are identified at the outset. The employer offers employment, transport fares, shipping costs and commits to return travel expenses in case of relationship breakdown with the applicant. In return the employer wants a business asset that is fit for immediate purpose in terms of education, but more importantly experience. Remember the experience bit, I will be referring back to this later. The applicant commits to provide the education, experience do a good job, not break the law and pay taxes. In addition, take out health care etc. The state commits to provide startle services etc, blah, blah. Now, that experience bit is the key here. You simply cannot turn out an experienced technician, tradesman, engineer, doctor, police officer etc from a training course. That is what the 457 is geared around, plugging gaps in a market that requires experience. At the moment Oz is in a downturn. Rightly so, it is not competitive, houses cost waaaaaaaay too much and the cost of living is adversely affecting most people. Add to this the cost of child care in a state school where the applicant is already taxed to the eyes, yet also has to pay extra for private health, and many will leave, even more will not come. Remembering that a large number of 457 guys work in nasty mining type places, what will happen when Oz is not in a downturn? The mines, any company in fact will have to make choices: - pay more for locals in a highly competitive market. Nope, this will drive up costs. - fly in single applicants with no kids usually means younger, less experience. This opens the door to cheap labour by the plane load from India etc. - Advertise for experienced applicants with kids willing to pay tax, extra insurance for health and now state education. I would hope that anyone with an ounce of common dog would turn there nose up at this! In short this warping of pre-existing agreements will damage Oz and its economy for a long time. BTW I am a permanent resident (I have never trusted employers) earn way above the average wage and am putting my kid into private school. I pray to god she goes to university in Europe! I heard a phrase recently "you cannot polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter". The Australian education system is like the turd, sans glitter. It is awful, truly awful, and I mean at all levels. To think people now pay fees at university for such a poor product/service makes me want to weep. I do not agree with what the state is doing. But if you are to come to Oz make sure: -you can afford the house - you can afford the food - you can afford private school regards