Sustain Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Female friend of mine was propositioned by her boss (C Level) on Friday afternoon/night. Unwanted, it was supposed to be a promotion celebration lunch for her. Should she take legal action ? what termination package should she go for? 3 months? 6 months? 12 months? Its not just her word against his, there are emails insinuating bad behaviour on his part. He has admitted previous affairs his wife does not know about. There is a change in C Level at this place and she is feeling very uncomfortable. Not just in working with this person, but work related as trust, respect and all else is gone. Comments or advice or experiences to pass on? Unfortunately for him I am playing Golf on Wednesday with the largest investor (a devout catholic man with grandkids, and high ethics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Personally I think if she was just propositioned, then it depends on how he reacted to her refusal. If he took it well I wouldn't do a thing, that's life. People fancy people, try see if they are interested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I can't for the life of me think why legal action is required based on what you have said ... was she also threatened? Told she faced the sack unless she complies as well? If yes then certainly this is not acceptable. But one "proposition" does not sound like sexual harassment to me, good god if everyone that ever made a move on another person was accused of sexual harassment where would we be. A very significant number if people meet their partner at work, at one point those relationships started with someone "propositioning" someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incata Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Tell her to get his home phone number and call when his wife is at home. When the wife answers, assume she is the housekeeper and say that Kelly from the office called, the sex was great and she would like to accept his offer dinner on Saturday. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sustain Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 I can't for the life of me think why legal action is required based on what you have said ... was she also threatened? Told she faced the sack unless she complies as well? If yes then certainly this is not acceptable. But one "proposition" does not sound like sexual harassment to me, good god if everyone that ever made a move on another person was accused of sexual harassment where would we be. A very significant number if people meet their partner at work, at one point those relationships started with someone "propositioning" someone else. Its hard to articulate all of the circumstances without giving away the organisation etc. But the point is the work side relies heavily on trust and close working relationships. That has been completely eroded. At this level there is no one for her to go to other than him. He is married and admitted to numerous other affairs leading up to his final request before storming off when she declined. Butt of it, is she cannot continue in the role She is then going to suffer financially while she looks for another role. (These are $1m+ base positions so 3 months is a considerable amount) He has put her in this position, where she has been physically sick since Friday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) "Unfortunately for him I am playing Golf on Wednesday with the largest investor (a devout catholic man with grandkids, and high ethics)." Did you really write that - if you are going to start mouthing off about someone you better make sure you have your facts 100% correct! Also, if this is a one off "proposition" I think your friend is making an awful big deal out of it - maybe wanting to use it as an excuse to leave If she is already talking about a termination package? Tell him to F*ck off and get on with her job! Also his marital situation has got nothing to do with either of you - doesn't matter how many affairs he has had. I am not sticking up for him if it was harassment but this sounds more like an over reaction on your friends part Edited August 4, 2013 by AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sustain Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 "Unfortunately for him I am playing Golf on Wednesday with the largest investor (a devout catholic man with grandkids, and high ethics)." Did you really write that - if you are going to start mouthing off about someone you better make sure you have your facts 100% correct! Also, if this is a one off "proposition" I think your friend is making an awful big deal out of it - maybe wanting to use it as an excuse to leave If she is already talking about a termination package? Tell him to F*ck off and get on with her job! I have the 2 emails, which forget just the proposition, these question his ability to do his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Its hard to articulate all of the circumstances without giving away the organisation etc. But the point is the work side relies heavily on trust and close working relationships. That has been completely eroded. At this level there is no one for her to go to other than him. He is married and admitted to numerous other affairs leading up to his final request before storming off when she declined. Butt of it, is she cannot continue in the role She is then going to suffer financially while she looks for another role. (These are $1m+ base positions so 3 months is a considerable amount) He has put her in this position, where she has been physically sick since Friday night. So he stormed off, well that could be in embarrassment or disappointment. Most people need close working relationships, so there is nothing special there. To accuse somebody of such a serious offence based on this incident as presented is wrong. And people have always cheated on spouses too, last time I heard, that was not an offence either so I just don't know what that information has to do with anything at all. I can imagine that this is a very awkward situation at the moment, but it should not be insurmountable. A conversation to clear the air might be worthwhile ... unfortunately I get the feeling that somebody sees a way to make a fast buck through a legal claim and doesn't really care about to restoring harmonious working relationships. :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I have the 2 emails, which forget just the proposition, these question his ability to do his job. And what has he done to you? You seem very determined to get back at him? Or you just trying to impress your friend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I am putting on my legal head. Not something i do often now. Your friend needs to record everything inna diary form. And seek legal advice. Your involvement, from what you have said may open up significant legal action against you and I would advice you take immediate legal advice. I would advise you in the interim to also diary everything. Do not do anything in regard to this matter and to not speak of it. Particularly to anyone outside of the company as your legal obligations may be in severe breach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sustain Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 Thank AJ and Rupert for your contributions and views. They are appreciated. What I can say is no I am determined to get back at him or am I trying to impress a friend. And there is more to it which is not so easy to express on a public forum. But thanks for the PM's from female posters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Personally unless you have to get involved ie family member or one of your employees I would back away. Obviously we don't know all the details but from what you have said I don't think it is so bad. I remember when I was a publican I had men coming on to me none stop or talking to my boobs, I would just laugh it off. These days they would need to be drunk to make a pass at me lol, and if they did I would be flattered and wouldn't even consider taking any action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scrumpy Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 And just remember where theres blame theres a claim, If I had a pound every time I was "hit on" I would still be skint!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolvesaussie Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 geeez is it a crime to have a bit much to drink at the office party and try it on with a girl you fancy these days? As long as its not teacher and student or some such its perfectly fine. Legal action? You have got to be joking.. If in the future he holds it against her and makes life difficult for her than that may be a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimoneAL Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 All my sympathy to your friend, it must be a very uncomfortable situation for her. As per some comments above, not sure there is enough to push forward a harrassment case. My only bit of advice would be to move on as quick as possible, logging all events, emails etc, that could be handy if things get seriously nasty. I say move on because from the little I know those situations could have a very negative impact on your friend private and professional life. People tend to blame the victim and if things get nasty, your friend should be ready for this. New job, new boss, keep the proud, keep the confidence. At the end of the day, this is a very personal decision and it is hard to comment without some experience in a similar case... Good luck Thank AJ and Rupert for your contributions and views. They are appreciated. What I can say is no I am determined to get back at him or am I trying to impress a friend. And there is more to it which is not so easy to express on a public forum. But thanks for the PM's from female posters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Thank AJ and Rupert for your contributions and views. They are appreciated. What I can say is no I am determined to get back at him or am I trying to impress a friend. And there is more to it which is not so easy to express on a public forum. But thanks for the PM's from female posters I might be misunderstanding, but in case you are suggesting that female posters would "understand" you should note that as you can see from a number of posts on the thread, that we don't all over react. Edited August 5, 2013 by Rupert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CML1410 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Female friend of mine was propositioned by her boss (C Level) on Friday afternoon/night. Unwanted, it was supposed to be a promotion celebration lunch for her. Should she take legal action ? what termination package should she go for? 3 months? 6 months? 12 months? Its not just her word against his, there are emails insinuating bad behaviour on his part. He has admitted previous affairs his wife does not know about. There is a change in C Level at this place and she is feeling very uncomfortable. Not just in working with this person, but work related as trust, respect and all else is gone. Comments or advice or experiences to pass on? Unfortunately for him I am playing Golf on Wednesday with the largest investor (a devout catholic man with grandkids, and high ethics). Hi Sustain, I work at a high level in HR and would usually have to deal with cases such as this. IMO you have received some good and sound advice on this thread. From the facts you have given I don't think there is enough for your friend to claim SH against him. It sounds like he chanced his arm and she brushed him off, which happens every day in society. At the moment I would say she needs to hold her head up high and go back in to work and she can either 1) bring it up and tell him explicitly that she is not interested and only wants a professional working relationship with him or 2) ignore what happened and carry on as if nothign happened (hopefully her rejection will mean he doesn't do it again). What is key is what happens next. If he now behaves in a way towards her that could be construed as harassment ie the promotion suddenly gets withdrawn, her performance starts to come in to question, he continues to make advances towards her despite her saying no, etc then she would likely have a SH case. The advice to keep a diary is sound advice and she should record any incidents to date (date, time, place, any witnesses, what happened) and anything else that happens. If she has a diary this would be evidence of what has happened. As for yourself, you were not there you do not know what happened and the best advice to you is to steer well clear of saying anything to anyone. Certainly you should be extremely careful of making statements about the guy and how he lives his life, which could later come back to bite you from a legal / slander POV. Hope this helps best wishes Carmel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sustain Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 He was formally sacked yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) He was formally sacked yesterday "Formally" sacked? As opposed to what, exactly. I wonder if he'll claim for unfair dismissal. From your previous posts it's clear that he's been the victim of a malicious cyber bullying attack, whereby friends of his colleagues have intimated that they'd use their social status to undermine his reputation with key clients. Gotta be worth a dollar or two to keep Fair Work Australia out of it. Edited August 8, 2013 by Xenon4017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimoneAL Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 He was formally sacked yesterday I appreciate we are talking high level here, no detail should be given not to have the organization and the people indentified. Still from an abstract point of view, can anybody help me understand when a proposition becomes sexual harrassment? Mind, I am only trying to understand better from the unwanted ladys's point of you and HR/regulatory point of view as well (possibly). Some cases are black and white, though many seems to be very grey to me... PS Just in case my wife reads this: I DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG! :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellers and Whitehead Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 He was formally sacked yesterday I'm intrigue..why was he sacked?? Must be more to it than what you wrote!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CML1410 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I'm intrigue..why was he sacked?? Must be more to it than what you wrote!? V interesting development -- maybe there was more evidence in the emails that we weren't aware of!!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Im suprised so many women are so relaxed about it, i dont know the full story but if he was sending her emails, making her feel uncomfortable etc then i'd be pissed off too. Its a bit different than a quick chat up line and then backing off. If he's been sacked there must be more to it or hes been doing it to other employees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Maybe she was hormonal/time of the month/going through the change etc :biglaugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Im suprised so many women are so relaxed about it, i dont know the full story but if he was sending her emails, making her feel uncomfortable etc then i'd be pissed off too. Its a bit different than a quick chat up line and then backing off. If he's been sacked there must be more to it or hes been doing it to other employees Could be because the OP set the scene that the woman was propositioned on Friday afternoon at lunch. It sounds pretty tame, the human race would probably die out if nobody ever propositioned anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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