Interesting article on cost of living

[NicF]

I am not talking about moving to Spain. You can buy a decent little holiday pad there for peanuts these days. Jump on an easyjet flight on a friday night and have the weekend in the sun. I know several people that do it and rent it out during the week and it costs them nothing.

 

Alternative. Move to Oz and for a growing number of new people, they find themselves significantly worse off financially. They sell there house in the UK and find there now in there 30's in Oz and starting from scartch again with a large mortgage. Lets not forget, that people today are going to be looking at spending at least $400k for a house. If your earning the average wage of about $70k, that means the max mortgage you can afford is $210k based on 3x earnings. Thats means you need a deposit of $190k. That is probably more than most people can get in equity from their house in the UK. Or, if they can, they are still now back at day one of a 25 year mortgage.

 

We're worse off financially and time wise since we moved to Oz last year. My OH is 50 and I'm 39 and we are just about to take on a $375k mortgage and my OH hasn't even got a permanent job. In the UK we both had good jobs, my OH worked just 10minutes drive from home and I worked 3 days a week and worked mostly from home. Here we both spend about 45 minutes each way commuting. Between us in the UK we were earning about £68k a year and had got our mortgage down to just £35k.

 

Thing is we knew we would be less well off in Australia but we moved anyway to be near my OH's family.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Problem is Hoff. There is a growing amount of tradies struggling for work here. When a lot of the guys who post on here arrived, life was very good. Loads of work, houses were cheap and so moving from the UK in a small / terrace house where they were struggling to keep regular work was a no brainer. But times have moved on. Houses have sky rocketed and a lot are going to arrive they cant afford to buy. Work is drying up by the day and cost of living means they have a worse lifestyle than they did back home.

 

For a long time now, there have been lots of construction work on FIFO for tradies building new mines and things. But, now projects are being canceled all over the place and more are coming back to Perth to look for work and so the number of job seekers is increasing, while work in Perth is decreasing

 

 

My post you quoted, I said they would be better off staying in the UK if they have good jobs and are concerned about getting good jobs in Australia. There has just recently been a down turn in Australia on the jobs front, but it's been like that for almost 5 years in the UK and for some there's little risk going to Australia.

[nicolac34]

The "lifestyle" that most are seeking though is not expensive. We enjoy the beach, the weather, being able to get out more. Basically the things that come free just from living here.

 

You're lucky Paul. My OH hates the beach and doesn't like the hot weather, so I guess we probably spend more than most on 'entertainment' - nothing we do is free.

[nicolac34]

You can never afford to start a family nicolac34. Don't even think about trying to work out how much it costs, you would never consider doing it. I ran the same argument by my missus when she said she wanted to try for a baby. Married about a year, me a fairly new graduate, on less salary than I was on as a 19 year old fitter after my apprenticeship. She would obviously have to give up work for a while.

 

Her argument was everyone else seems to manage and you do, manage that is. You have to give up a lot and your life changes. You have to be ready to accept that.

 

I tried the same when she wanted another one when we were here and we somehow scraped by again. That one has autism too so all the extra costs and worry that go along with that.

 

Would I be without either of them now, no, I think they've been a godsend for all the worry and expense. As long as you don't carry on trying to behave like you don't have kids, you'll be fine and somehow manage to scrape by like my missus says.

Got to admit though when we were in the UK and the highlight of the weekend was taking the eldest down to the local park and duck pond, with wet weather gear all over the pram, typical Manchester weather, both of us wrapped up and then the realisation that we weren't going to be able to afford our usual trip abroad that year, it got us down a bit. You can see why we emigrated.

 

Good luck.

 

Your wife obviously did a better job at convincing you than I'm doing! I've used the same arguments with my OH but he's not budging. We've been together 10 years, married for 3 and I turned 30 a couple of weeks ago - it's "time" I think!

 

But he said he doesn't want to 'scrape by' - which means we have to pay off all our immediate debt and have a huge savings pot to be able to compensate for me not working (no paid maternity leave from my employer and I'm the main wage earner). We've had a tough year, him not working for 8 months has knocked us financially (and his confidence massively) we bought a house we probably shouldn't have done and now have a whole load of debt that we didn't have 12 months ago.

 

I can understand wanting to pay off the credit card first, as that is a pain and no one likes that, but saving up loads whilst trying to make our house habitable? Think I'm going to be in my 40's before we get to that point! :chatterbox:

Edited July 5, 2013 by nicolac34

[Bibbs]

But he said he doesn't want to 'scrape by' - which means we have to pay off all our immediate debt and have a huge savings pot to be able to compensate for me not working (no paid maternity leave from my employer and I'm the main wage earner).

 

We did half that. We paid off all our debts (about 15k in loans, cards etc.) in the year before we left the UK. We had also paid for all the visa, shipping, flights etc.

 

We had my wife's house sale money, but didn't want to dip into that. That was locked away into high interest savings and to be used for a deposit on a new place.

 

We left the UK and landed in Perth with no more than our last pay cheques and the money from our 2 cars we'd sold the weekend we left.

[Johnny Kash]

I am not talking about moving to Spain. You can buy a decent little holiday pad there for peanuts these days. Jump on an easyjet flight on a friday night and have the weekend in the sun. I know several people that do it and rent it out during the week and it costs them nothing.

 

Alternative. Move to Oz and for a growing number of new people, they find themselves significantly worse off financially. They sell there house in the UK and find there now in there 30's in Oz and starting from scartch again with a large mortgage. Lets not forget, that people today are going to be looking at spending at least $400k for a house. If your earning the average wage of about $70k, that means the max mortgage you can afford is $210k based on 3x earnings. Thats means you need a deposit of $190k. That is probably more than most people can get in equity from their house in the UK. Or, if they can, they are still now back at day one of a 25 year mortgage.

 

This is very true. My view is that those of us coming over now or in the last few years have to a large extent missed the boat in terms of being able to afford the lifestyle so many people crave.

We are renting a nice place, can eat out, do stuff etc. But thats both of us earning pretty decent wage with no kids. I work longer hours than I did in UK but the sun shines more here. Even if we sold up our UK properties I wouldnt buy in Oz just now anyway as its so overvalued. Especially compared to 10-20 years ago.

The other thing of course is the pound. Although it had been showing signs of getting stronger against the Aussie, all signs from the new man in charge at Bank of England are rock bottom interest rates for a good while yet, another factor to consider.

[Guest]

At least wages HAVE gone up in Australia, compared to the UK where wages have either stagnated or dropped like a brick. It's dear everywhere, especially here in the UK there's been over one million jobs created here, but wages have dropped by £52 Billion pounds and people are struggling here more than ever.

 

HOFF you are deluded mate with regard to wages. Wages have not gone up over here in real terms and wages are more in real terms in the UK when you look at the cost of living. If anything it is harder here than in the UK, much harder if you have recently got here. Not so much if you arrived 5-10 years and have 90% equity in a house.

 

Thing is with buying in Spain, it is good and yes much better and nicer than here but 99% of the year your still in the UK as you only get so many holidays if working for a living so your still stuck in the house at weekends, that said there isnt as much to do here so you tend to do the same things at weekends here.

 

Working hours are not long here, if anything they are shorter than Europe - who on earth dreamt up the opposite, your obviously getting taken for a ride so change jobs.

 

there are equally if not more in terms of percentage of the population that are struggling over here, they just dont get in the news as its sort of brushed under the carpet. negatives arent talked about here.

 

Funny but I think Spain is like Perth in the mañana way and weather and also the vegetation. Women look nicer in Spain though and if the ozzy women do look OK when they open their mouths its a killer lol

 

The ozzy down turn is a lot worse than the UK due to the fact its a very small market place in the first place so not that many opportunities anyway.

Edited July 5, 2013 by dustyroad

[gpo1971]

All that might be true for you but it isn't for me. So, don't sell it as 'fact'.

[nicolac34]

Working hours are not long here, if anything they are shorter than Europe - who on earth dreamt up the opposite, your obviously getting taken for a ride so change jobs. QUOTE]

 

I work half an hour a day longer here than I did in the UK, 8.30-5.00 (sometimes longer with no paid overtime or time in leiu) and I get 1 week less holiday. So by my calculations I work 158 hours more a year (equivalent of 22 days a year).

 

I don't know anyone else in Australia that works shorter hours (unless part-time) or get more holidays than that, so I don't know what other job I could move to to improve that.

[Paul1Perth]

I am not talking about moving to Spain. You can buy a decent little holiday pad there for peanuts these days. Jump on an easyjet flight on a friday night and have the weekend in the sun. I know several people that do it and rent it out during the week and it costs them nothing.

 

Alternative. Move to Oz and for a growing number of new people, they find themselves significantly worse off financially. They sell there house in the UK and find there now in there 30's in Oz and starting from scartch again with a large mortgage. Lets not forget, that people today are going to be looking at spending at least $400k for a house. If your earning the average wage of about $70k, that means the max mortgage you can afford is $210k based on 3x earnings. Thats means you need a deposit of $190k. That is probably more than most people can get in equity from their house in the UK. Or, if they can, they are still now back at day one of a 25 year mortgage.

 

You've still got to organise it, pay for flights, pack, get to the airport, get from the airport to wherever, get back and be prepared for work on Monday. Sounds like hard work to me rather than a relaxing weekend.

It was enough to put us off going to the beach so often when we lived in Como, a 20 minute drive from the beach. Now I can nip back for a towel if I forget one, makes all the difference.

 

Plenty of people have to start with a 25 year mortgage in their 30's, it takes them that long to settle down, meet someone and decide they want a house. I was nearly 40 and my wife mid 30's when we emigrated and started again. Didn't make much difference really, the next move we would have had to make if we had stayed in the UK would have been into a semi that would have kept us broke for the next 25 years. No chance of that little house in Spain then.

[Paul1Perth]

You're lucky Paul. My OH hates the beach and doesn't like the hot weather, so I guess we probably spend more than most on 'entertainment' - nothing we do is free.

 

If we had hated the beach and hot weather we would have stayed in the UK.

[nicolac34]

If we had hated the beach and hot weather we would have stayed in the UK.

 

Given the choice he would have done! :wink:

[Paul1Perth]

Your wife obviously did a better job at convincing you than I'm doing! I've used the same arguments with my OH but he's not budging. We've been together 10 years, married for 3 and I turned 30 a couple of weeks ago - it's "time" I think!

 

But he said he doesn't want to 'scrape by' - which means we have to pay off all our immediate debt and have a huge savings pot to be able to compensate for me not working (no paid maternity leave from my employer and I'm the main wage earner). We've had a tough year, him not working for 8 months has knocked us financially (and his confidence massively) we bought a house we probably shouldn't have done and now have a whole load of debt that we didn't have 12 months ago.

 

I can understand wanting to pay off the credit card first, as that is a pain and no one likes that, but saving up loads whilst trying to make our house habitable? Think I'm going to be in my 40's before we get to that point! :chatterbox:

 

I'm just an easy going type and couldn't be bothered with the arguments and moods. Would have ended up divorced I reckon.

Your hubbies got a point and if you are enjoying life don't have kids. No-one says you have to have them and I'm sure if we hadn't had them we would have been able to pay off our mortgage a whole lot quicker and have all those things that a lot of people think are important. You know, boat, extra holidays, home improvements, nights out, go to the pub a lot more, pay the mortgage off and have lots more money to retire on. Maybe even investment properties.

 

There is an awful lot you have to give up and forget and if your hubby is not ready then he has a point. There are a lot of divorced people around where one of them never really wanted kids or change.

[Paul1Perth]

This is very true. My view is that those of us coming over now or in the last few years have to a large extent missed the boat in terms of being able to afford the lifestyle so many people crave.

We are renting a nice place, can eat out, do stuff etc. But thats both of us earning pretty decent wage with no kids. I work longer hours than I did in UK but the sun shines more here. Even if we sold up our UK properties I wouldnt buy in Oz just now anyway as its so overvalued. Especially compared to 10-20 years ago.

The other thing of course is the pound. Although it had been showing signs of getting stronger against the Aussie, all signs from the new man in charge at Bank of England are rock bottom interest rates for a good while yet, another factor to consider.

 

You say you have missed the boat and can't afford the lifestyle yet you have money you could use locked into UK properties?? So more than 1 then. Sell the bloody things if your serious about staying and enjoy the money here.

[gpo1971]

I work the same or less hours than I did in the UK, I work better hours (have a much more flexible employer), I get paid substantially more, I don’t bring work home, I have a better work/life balance, yes my bills are a lot higher but I still have more disposable income here, I do more, I go out more, I like the sunshine, I like the beach, I even like the sausages.

Sorry that other people seem to struggle or hate large facets of their life or where they live but I certainly don’t think that’s a matter-of-fact representation of life in Perth. Nor is it fair to put people off by constantly harping on about how expensive it is and how scarce jobs are just because that’s a personal experience; it’s not mine, it won’t be for plenty of others.

We’re not one-offs, we have tons of family here and they’re all in the same boat as us, so are friends of ours. We can’t all be the exceptions to the rule. And none of us are Doctor’s or Dentist’s, Architects or Stockbrokers, just normal Joe’s.

People will continue to move over here, get jobs doing whatever it is that they do, prosper and lead a great life so, go for it. Others won’t, sorry about that.

 

You don’t have to move here you know, it’s not compulsory.

 

If you do, just buy a ticket like the rest of us.

Edited July 5, 2013 by gpo1971

[Paul1Perth]

Working hours are not long here, if anything they are shorter than Europe - who on earth dreamt up the opposite, your obviously getting taken for a ride so change jobs. QUOTE]

 

I work half an hour a day longer here than I did in the UK, 8.30-5.00 (sometimes longer with no paid overtime or time in leiu) and I get 1 week less holiday. So by my calculations I work 158 hours more a year (equivalent of 22 days a year).

 

I don't know anyone else in Australia that works shorter hours (unless part-time) or get more holidays than that, so I don't know what other job I could move to to improve that.

 

8:30 - 5:00 is a long day nic. You wouldn't get a tradie working those hours unless he was getting a couple of hours overtime out of it. The hours at our place and I think they are pretty standard in office environments are 7.6 hours a day. No-one checks though and there are some people that do a lot less. I can come in at 9:00 have 2 hours for lunch and leave at 4:30 and no-one would say a word, as long as the work gets done.

 

Some of the software engineers don't come in till 11:00, they might stay late but again no-one checks.

 

I think you should at least start looking at other opportunities, in my experience 38 hour weeks are the norm.

[nicolac34]

 

8:30 - 5:00 is a long day nic. You wouldn't get a tradie working those hours unless he was getting a couple of hours overtime out of it. The hours at our place and I think they are pretty standard in office environments are 7.6 hours a day. No-one checks though and there are some people that do a lot less. I can come in at 9:00 have 2 hours for lunch and leave at 4:30 and no-one would say a word, as long as the work gets done.

 

Some of the software engineers don't come in till 11:00, they might stay late but again no-one checks.

 

I think you should at least start looking at other opportunities, in my experience 38 hour weeks are the norm.

 

Would if I could Paul, locked in with an RSMS visa and I think I've seen 2 vacancies in 18 months for my position, so even ignorning the RSMS I wouldn't have anywhere to go!

 

It's why we probably won't stay in Perth, if we want corporate careers then Perth isn't the place to be - which is a shame, as I do like it here and we've started to make a pretty decent life for ourselves.

[Bibbs]

Some of the software engineers don't come in till 11:00, they might stay late but again no-one checks.

In at 7:00, off at 15:00

 

40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year.

 

Well, it's how I calculate my rate. I think i worked 49 weeks this year.

[Johndoe]

Working hours are not long here, if anything they are shorter than Europe - who on earth dreamt up the opposite, your obviously getting taken for a ride so change jobs. QUOTE]

 

I work half an hour a day longer here than I did in the UK, 8.30-5.00 (sometimes longer with no paid overtime or time in leiu) and I get 1 week less holiday. So by my calculations I work 158 hours more a year (equivalent of 22 days a year).

 

I don't know anyone else in Australia that works shorter hours (unless part-time) or get more holidays than that, so I don't know what other job I could move to to improve that.

 

Nursing is a 38hr week with 6 weeks paid holidays a year if you work shifts. You can in fact get 12 weeks at half pay if you wish (in Qld). As most nurses work 40 hr shifts, they also get 12 extra days a year (rdo's) off to compensate for the 2 hrs extra they work. In reality, most nuses do not simply 'clock off" but at least they have the optoion of getting the time worked over, in lieu at some other time (toil)

[Betty81]

So, we earned £38k & £35k in UK. House was £150k. In Oz, $80k & $95k. House is $330k. Marginally larger loan to income rate in Oz.

 

This is rural NSW so we know we're lucky in terms of house prices etc. We couldn't afford to live in one of the cities on our wages and have the same standard of living. Lifestyle is better for us, it's childcare costs that are crippling us. It's the same as our home loan.

 

B

[Paul1Perth]

 

Would if I could Paul, locked in with an RSMS visa and I think I've seen 2 vacancies in 18 months for my position, so even ignorning the RSMS I wouldn't have anywhere to go!

 

It's why we probably won't stay in Perth, if we want corporate careers then Perth isn't the place to be - which is a shame, as I do like it here and we've started to make a pretty decent life for ourselves.

 

If you like it Nic forget the "corporate careers", especially if you're thinking about starting a family. You only live once mate, never heard anyone say "I wish I'd spent a few more hours at work" on their deathbed.

 

If you've started to make a bit of headway and can afford the mortgage it gets easier. We wondered if we could afford ours when we got it then a few years later had another kid. Salaries increase, other opportunities come up, I think the longer you are in a place and get to know a few contacts you and your hubby will find better and more interesting work. Surprising how many big companies are in Perth when you do a bit of checking. Obviously Oil, Gas and Mining are at the forefront. I know we are hearing nothing but doom and gloom at the moment but I read in this weeks business review how Chinese companies (usually shorthand for Chinese Government) are looking at "snapping up bargains" in WA mining and oil and gas acquisitions, you just don't know who to believe.

 

The article I read goes on to say that the forecast price for materials fro Iron Ore to Gold is very good. The Chinese don't invest in stuff they aren't pretty sure about. Personally I hope they stay in Australian hands. Once the Chinese get in here there will be cheap labour galore shipped in and the government will bend over backwards so they don't upset them.

 

Just don't know what to believe at the moment, changes daily doesn't it, guess that's why the stock market and exchange rate is up one day down the next. Nobody has a clue what is happening.

[VERYSTORMY]

Paul.

 

I would love to see that article. All of the data out of China recently has been very worrying. Tom Price from UBS (Regarded as the god of iron ore forecasting) currently has iron ore going to $70 - that closes every one except rio and BHP including my own company.

 

Gold is causing massive pain in the industry at the moment with a number of mines on review and a lot currently using cash reserves to try to stay open and doing what is known in the game as raping the deposit - mining purely the highest grade dirt even though it has significant detriments to the mine later.

 

It isnt going to get better any time soon with the mass cuts in exploration - a survey of senior staff out today shows that Oz will be one of the least likely places money is spent in the future. Africa and south america are the new golden childs

[Paul1Perth]

Paul.

 

I would love to see that article. All of the data out of China recently has been very worrying. Tom Price from UBS (Regarded as the god of iron ore forecasting) currently has iron ore going to $70 - that closes every one except rio and BHP including my own company.

 

Gold is causing massive pain in the industry at the moment with a number of mines on review and a lot currently using cash reserves to try to stay open and doing what is known in the game as raping the deposit - mining purely the highest grade dirt even though it has significant detriments to the mine later.

 

It isnt going to get better any time soon with the mass cuts in exploration - a survey of senior staff out today shows that Oz will be one of the least likely places money is spent in the future. Africa and south america are the new golden childs

 

It was in The Australian Business section, front page. I think it was Wednesdays paper, it was in our coffee room and I read it this morning.

 

I see Africa keeps getting a mention, that's despite Rio and BHP writing off billions from their investments there last year. There and Canada if I remember correctly, then they transferred their losses to Aus to avoid paying tax.

[newjez]

I remember reading it yesterday

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/chinese-target-mining-bargains-as-stocks-dive/story-e6frg9df-1226673956235

 

Although I'm not sure asia and smart investments always come together. I was reading an article in the telegraph about asian white elephants. Seems they are much better at awsting money than the west. Maybe because they have more of it atm.

 

Paul.

 

I would love to see that article. All of the data out of China recently has been very worrying. Tom Price from UBS (Regarded as the god of iron ore forecasting) currently has iron ore going to $70 - that closes every one except rio and BHP including my own company.

 

Gold is causing massive pain in the industry at the moment with a number of mines on review and a lot currently using cash reserves to try to stay open and doing what is known in the game as raping the deposit - mining purely the highest grade dirt even though it has significant detriments to the mine later.

 

It isnt going to get better any time soon with the mass cuts in exploration - a survey of senior staff out today shows that Oz will be one of the least likely places money is spent in the future. Africa and south america are the new golden childs

[Paul1Perth]

I remember reading it yesterday

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/chinese-target-mining-bargains-as-stocks-dive/story-e6frg9df-1226673956235

 

Although I'm not sure asia and smart investments always come together. I was reading an article in the telegraph about asian white elephants. Seems they are much better at awsting money than the west. Maybe because they have more of it atm.

 

A company I used to work for had some contracts in China. I found that they promised the Earth as regards what they said they would be able to sell into the country but wanted and got.

 

1. A bunch of Chinese guys came over on an all expenses paid jaunt where the company supplied a Toyaota people mover so they could go off and see some of WA. Complete with driver too so they could drink.

 

2. A fridge stocked up with booze that they had free access too for carrying on after work with the CEO.

 

3. Transfer of technology to China. Basically everything that got made here had to be transferred to a factory in China. To do this our company had to send over a few guys to train staff in the Chinese factory.

 

4. A free loan of the technology we were trying to sell them for them to "try out". On top of this they asked for and got free support but were very unwilling to give us access to their phone lines so we could dial in and diagnose problems.

 

5. Numerous bribes to all and sundry just to get equipment into the country.

 

All that on the promise of being able to sell millions of dollars worth of equipment and services to them. They used the same old argument they always use when they are wanting things from us and the US. Look at the number of people we have, imagine if you get in early all the sales it will lead to.

 

Never went anywhere and contributed a good deal to the company I worked for going broke and laying everyone off.