Poor poor Tories you couldn't make it up!!

[Skyba]

WHAT ARE THE ELECTORAL ADVANTAGES OF IMMIGRATION FOR LABOUR?

 

 

The migrants' desire to get into Britain is only half the story of why so many are here. The other half is the explanation of why the Government decided to let so many migrants into Britain. For the past 12 years, Labour has been convinced that allowing high levels of immigration should be a policy priority, and it has taken steps to ensure that it is relatively easy for migrants to get permanent, legally recognised residence here. Why has Labour done that?

 

 

In 1997, Tony Blair and his Cabinet had several reasons for wishing to increase the number of immigrants into Britain. One was that they perceived an electoral advantage. The outcome of elections in an increasing number of constituencies was, and is, dictated in large part by the votes from relatively recent immigrants. People who have moved here from, say, the Indian subcontinent understandably hated the rules that prevented their families joining them in Britain.

 

 

The most onerous of those rules was known as "the primary purpose rule", which was imposed by the Conservatives in 1993. It required that someone wishing to follow his or her spouse into Britain to prove that "the marriage was not entered into primarily to obtain admission to the UK". Proving a negative, as the rule obliged the candidate to do, was extremely difficult, and large numbers of spouses were refused entry into Britain as a result.

 

 

Labour abolished that rule soon after the election in 1997. The move was extremely popular in immigrant communities, because it made it far easier for families to move here. Immigration by spouses into Britain has increased by 50 per cent since the primary purpose rule was abolished. More than 40,000 people were granted citizenship here on the basis of marriage in 2008 alone.

 

 

Usless your not comfortable with my 'proof' and you just want me to come out with some unfounded statements.....

 

 

Where does that state that it ACTUALLY made a difference to voting, again look at my proof, it's real it happened not theory not speculation actually happened. And where does it say that anyone has admitted it's why they did it. There was one story I found in a right wing rag which was 1 man saying something not a party admitting

[MARYROSE02]

Wtf are you banging on about!!

 

if you're talking about what you think labour voters do you are the typical brain washed right the !! I neither smoke, drink and I out £10 in a William hill account and have £1 accumulators on the footy. I am self employed and last time I was out of work I had to spend ALL of my savings before I could get any help, my parents had some savings until my dad fell Ill and he was told he wasn't allowed anything as he was "fit to work" even though drs surgeons and a court of law all say he's not

 

Maybe you are the exception to the rule and I would probably vote for Labour if only they would get rid of all the pseudo communists like Skinner and Wedgewood Benn. But then again, why should I vote for Labour just because I am working class? The Tory Party (or the Liberal/National in OZ) are what represents my interests the best. Why should I pay taxes to support dole bludgers? Unions are on the way out anyway. Labour should be looking after the small businessmen and shop owners. Even the much beloved Eureka Stockade miners were not labourers but self employed small businessmen.

[StevieF8]

Your argument is incongruous with the facts. You can see that bit in red can't you....that report is the result of research, not just what you say at the other side of your screen

 

You are so desperate to be right you are denying the facts laid out in front of you, and if you spent less time arguing and more time proving your point it would be far less embarrassing for you

 

 

1 man....you mean the Labour speechwriter....

[Skyba]

Maybe you are the exception to the rule and I would probably vote for Labour if only they would get rid of all the pseudo communists like Skinner and Wedgewood Benn. But then again, why should I vote for Labour just because I am working class? The Tory Party (or the Liberal/National in OZ) are what represents my interests the best. Why should I pay taxes to support dole bludgers? Unions are on the way out anyway. Labour should be looking after the small businessmen and shop owners. Even the much beloved Eureka Stockade miners were not labourers but self employed small businessmen.

 

 

So everyone who is unemployed is a "scrounger" the sick, the needy?? Th man who lost his job through no fault of his own!! There are around 3,000,000 unemployed in this country and far less jobs and the majority of jobs are in specialist areas or in certain areas of the country. Not everyone out of work wants to be out of work. If I pay taxes and it helps someone with can we live a comfortable life I'm happy.

 

 

Also to buy into the propaganda of the right!! I think it's something like 90-95% of the welfare budget goes to people who are in work, not out of work. They are hard working people who are being abused by the big bussiness that the Tories support

[Skyba]

Your argument is incongruous with the facts. You can see that bit in red can't you....that report is the result of research, not just what you say at the other side of your screen

 

You are so desperate to be right you are denying the facts laid out in front of you, and if you spent less time arguing and more time proving your point it would be far less embarrassing for you

 

 

1 man....you mean the Labour speechwriter....

 

 

Again the bit in red is the result of someone's say so.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong but did I not provide evidence of stuff that ACTUALLY HAPPENED!!! You can ignore my facts yet when I acknowledge yours for what they are, speculation and theory, I am denying the facts lol.

 

 

And I'll say it again because you think it's embarressing doesn't make it so, I know what I have presented to you is fact. I'll get the definition from he dictionary if you like. A fact is something that is deffinate and actual. Like the result of an election in a town which is minority white British goin toward a Tory proving that filling a place with migrants won't give the vote to labour

Edited March 29, 2013 by Skyba

[Skyba]

Answer these questions.

 

 

didnyou say an influx of migrants would away the vote to labour?

 

is London a minority of British?

 

Did boris Johnson won the mayoral election

 

did labour fail to get a majority in a country in which you think a migrant population would sway the vote their way?

[MARYROSE02]

So everyone who is unemployed is a "scrounger" the sick, the needy?? Th man who lost his job through no fault of his own!! There are around 3,000,000 unemployed in this country and far less jobs and the majority of jobs are in specialist areas or in certain areas of the country. Not everyone out of work wants to be out of work. If I pay taxes and it helps someone with can we live a comfortable life I'm happy.

 

 

Also to buy into the propaganda of the right!! I think it's something like 90-95% of the welfare budget goes to people who are in work, not out of work. They are hard working people who are being abused by the big bussiness that the Tories support

 

I've no problem with the sick and needy especially if they are British born and bred but I certainly don't see why we should be helping the sick and needy from other countries. We don't ow them anything. Why should people come from overseas and jump the queues? And I know there are plenty of people, like me, who want to work and can't get it. BUT, for those committed bludgers who NEVER work, or who claim benefits whilst working on the sly, why should we accept that? Get them to sign on three times a day starting early in the mornings. Make them work for the dole. If I was offered the dole on condition of doing some work I'd jump at the chance.

 

Just how does this abuse by big companies supported by the Tories occur? How do ASDA and Tesco, Royal Mail, Amazon, B & Q, etc, exploit the 'working people?'

[MARYROSE02]

Labour Governments, whether in the UK or Australia, have always been opposed to any kind of border controls particularly where it concerns people from The Third World, whom of course we exploited and therefore have a duty to help till the end of time. What was the first thing that Rudd did when he became PM? Took away the Liberal Government policy on so-called 'boat people' - result? zero to thousands per month flooding in.

[StevieF8]

Answer these questions.

 

 

didnyou say an influx of migrants would away the vote to labour?

 

 

No. I posted the results of research, which came to that conclusion and the admission by the Labour speechwriter that it was their aim to get the migrant vote and so Labour made it easier for migrants to move to the UK

 

 

is London a minority of British?

 

 

No.

 

 

Did boris Johnson won the mayoral election

 

 

Yes. So what?

 

 

did labour fail to get a majority in a country in which you think a migrant population would sway the vote their way?

 

 

At the 2010 election, no.

 

 

At the 2001 & 2005 elections Yes

 

 

Again, refer to answer 1

[StevieF8]

Just how does this abuse by big companies supported by the Tories occur? How do ASDA and Tesco, Royal Mail, Amazon, B & Q, etc, exploit the 'working people?'

 

By providing them with employment and expecting them to do some work in exchange for money.

[Skyba]

I've no problem with the sick and needy especially if they are British born and bred but I certainly don't see why we should be helping the sick and needy from other countries. We don't ow them anything. Why should people come from overseas and jump the queues? And I know there are plenty of people, like me, who want to work and can't get it. BUT, for those committed bludgers who NEVER work, or who claim benefits whilst working on the sly, why should we accept that? Get them to sign on three times a day starting early in the mornings. Make them work for the dole. If I was offered the dole on condition of doing some work I'd jump at the chance.

 

Just how does this abuse by big companies supported by the Tories occur? How do ASDA and Tesco, Royal Mail, Amazon, B & Q, etc exploit the 'working people?'

 

They pay them below a living wage and then those people have to claim their tax back in tax credits whilst those companies sit on billions of pounds of profit going out the shareholders. So in theory your taxes are going to pay for the far cats to take huge a bonus and the Tories will dress it up as people scrounging on tax credits.

 

Also the party you seem to hate actually had an ID card in place to stop people coming over not contributing and accessing the NHS, the Tories made that their first thing to get rid of.

 

Also there is ALWAYS going to be unemployment as there aren't enough jobs to go around, you say you're unemployed and can't find work? Well I'd rather you go to work in a job we can find you than you being forced to work for benefits, I'd also rather have that job to to you who wants to be in work than someone who doesn't who will quit and go back on benefits.

 

You seem too concerned with what other people are getting for nothig rather than what you can achieve for yourself, if people want to sit around on benefits forever that's their choice, as long as people like you and I have the opportunity to make a life we want for ourselves, I don't care what the people who don't want to work get because if they were all forced into work they don't want to do that would keep the people who want to work in the queue waiting.

As long as an effort is made to educate their children and show them that they too can have the nice things in life if they strive to achieve, but that's not enough alone, the government have to made the country a place where those opportunities exist.

 

Inhate the strain which is put on from foreigners coming in and getting something for nothing, it's a big problem, but it's a bigger problem if we allow the government to use that as a stick to beat people with and avoid the real issues like getting the economy moving again.

[Skyba]

No. I posted the results of research, which came to that conclusion and the admission by the Labour speechwriter that it was their aim to get the migrant vote and so Labour made it easier for migrants to move to the UK

 

 

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. So what?

 

 

 

 

 

At the 2010 election, no.

 

 

At the 2001 & 2005 elections Yes

 

 

Again, refer to answer 1

 

 

haha you are totally denying the fact that London became the first place to have a minority of white British, lol what's the point in even talking to you??

You stated one report I gave you facts that contradict, you then just deny this!!

 

Stop saying you use facts to prove things when others disprove your theory with them you deny it lol. Pathetic attempt to debate really

 

 

Also you stated LABOUR addmitted it, they didn't someone who USED to work for them did, in a court of law that evidence wouldn't be used as he wouldn't be a credible whiteness.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Skyba

[Skyba]

By providing them with employment and expecting them to do some work in exchange for money.

 

 

Ou yeah there's another name for that, slave labour!!! Again this was also fought and won in court. If there is a job to be done it should be paid appropriately. Hitler would be proud of thoughts like that.

[StevieF8]

haha you are totally denying the fact that London became the first place to have a minority of white British, lol what's the point in even talking to you??

You stated one report I gave you facts that contradict, you then just deny this!!

 

 

Stop saying you use facts to prove things when others disprove your theory with them you deny it lol. Pathetic attempt to debate really

 

 

I'm not denying it, that wasn't the question you asked.

 

 

is London a minority of British?

 

 

 

The answer is still no, it isn't

Population of London: 7.8m

British Citizens living in London: 6m

 

 

So London is 77% British....

 

 

 

 

Also you stated LABOUR addmitted it, they didn't someone who USED to work for them did, in a court of law that evidence wouldn't be used as he wouldn't be a credible whiteness.

 

 

No he wrote an article that was published in the London Evening Standard.

 

 

He admitted it, you continue to deny it.

[MARYROSE02]

Second home? I want a third. I've got one in the UK and one in Sydney. Where's my best bet?

 

 

Now I'm a union man

Amazed at what I am

I say what I think, that the company stinks

Yes I'm a union man

 

When we meet in the local hall

I'll be voting with them all

With a hell of a shout, it's "Out brothers, out!"

And the rise of the factory's fall

 

Oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

Until the day I die

Until the day I die

 

The union has made me wise

To the lies of the company spies

And I don't get fooled by the factory rules

'cause I always read between the lines

 

And I always get my way

If I strike for higher pay

When I show my card to the Scotland Yard

And this is what I say:

 

Oh, oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

Until the day I die

Until the day I die

 

Before the union did appear

My life was half as clear

Now I've got the power to the working hour

And every other day of the year

 

So though I'm a working man

I can ruin the government's plan

And though I'm not hard, the sight of my card

Makes me some kind of superman

 

Oh, oh, oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

Until the day I die

Until the day I die

 

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

You don't get me, I'm part of the union

Until the day I die

Until the day I die

[StevieF8]

Ou yeah there's another name for that, slave labour!!! Again this was also fought and won in court. If there is a job to be done it should be paid appropriately. Hitler would be proud of thoughts like that.

 

Godwin's Theory......

 

 

 

No. North Korea forces slave labour. Not 1 single person who works in any of those companies is a slave

 

People in the UK are free to educate themselves, move up the ladder and increase their salary.

[Skyba]

I'm not denying it, that wasn't the question you asked.

 

 

 

 

 

The answer is still no, it isn't

Population of London: 7.8m

British Citizens living in London: 6m

 

 

So London is 77% British....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No he wrote an article that was published in the London Evening Standard.

 

 

He admitted it, you continue to deny it.

 

 

He isn't the Labour Party.

 

Also where are you getting your figures about London from?? In London 3.7m of 8.3 are white British, 37% born outside the uk and 24% non uk nationals.

 

 

FACT

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565

[Skyba]

Godwin's Theory......

 

 

 

No. North Korea forces slave labour. Not 1 single person who works in any of those companies is a slave

 

People in the UK are free to educate themselves, move up the ladder and increase their salary.

 

 

Are they??? £9k a year to go to a big standard uni!!! Pull the other one it had bells on it.

 

 

Anyway it's Good Friday and this thread has been done to death.

 

I'll leave you with this, you THINK you are right, you are not, in actuality neither of us are as its all opinion, the only thing which is wrong or right is the fact that London is minority white British and it didn't effect the election.

[StevieF8]

He isn't the Labour Party.

 

 

He worked for the Labour Party.

 

 

Also where are you getting your figures about London from?? In London 3.7m of 8.3 are white British, 37% born outside the uk and 24% non uk nationals.

 

 

 

 

FACT

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565

 

 

and that's a good fact, but it still isn't the question you asked

 

 

is London a minority of British?

 

 

 

You never mentioned 'White British' in your question.

[StevieF8]

Are they??? £9k a year to go to a big standard uni!!! Pull the other one it had bells on it.

 

 

Anyway it's Good Friday and this thread has been done to death.

 

I'll leave you with this, you THINK you are right, you are not, in actuality neither of us are as its all opinion, the only thing which is wrong or right is the fact that London is minority white British and it didn't effect the election.

 

Actually it's free to go to University.

[Perthbum]

No you're right, for once, a report doesn't constitute proof, but what it does show is that some one has done an investigation or some research and they have posted their findings

 

They may have misinterpreted the numbers, but it at least gives us a starting point to go from

 

You come from the PB school of facts and figures, just make it up as you go along and convince yourself you're right, then try and convince others

 

I have never studied voter demographics, so I do a bit of research before posting, I often find facts help to prove a point, but if you just want to say 'immigrant voters have no impact on an election outcome' then you must be right...after all you clearly know more than researchers and academics and in which case, you're wasted as a spark

 

Still waiting for that proof btw....just post a link to one website that backs your argument, even if you got it off the Sunday Sport....something that shows your train of thought, if what you're saying is correct it shouldn't be hard to do.

Hey Steve, you have done your monthly quota of 20 by 8 today....:wink:

[StevieF8]

Hey Steve, you have done your monthly quota of 20 by 8 today....:wink:

 

 

Still not got your head round averages I see...

[Skyba]

Actually it's free to go to University.

 

 

No it's not, you have to apply for and get a loan which will hang over your head for most of your working life!! Also they took away the ema payments which enabled people who lived in hard to reach areas of people from poor families to get to college, a place where people must go before uni.

[Guest chris955]

Why did you leave non white British out of those figures ? They are just as British. Also many of the 'born outside the UK' can still be British.

 

He isn't the Labour Party.

 

Also where are you getting your figures about London from?? In London 3.7m of 8.3 are white British, 37% born outside the uk and 24% non uk nationals.

 

 

FACT

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565

[Perthbum]

I don't have kids, I have 1 child. She is a bit young to do most things you have written there, but yes when she gets older i will get out and about with her. I don't moan about he weather and country in general. Yes the rather is shite at the moment, I'm not the Bly one saying tat, and what do I moan about when it comes to the 'country in general'? My glass is half full remember?

 

you forgot to answer the question in the post, how long have you worked on construction sites for?

About 10 years all together in oz and in the UK, **** boring work IMO, prefer being a barman.