Poor poor Tories you couldn't make it up!!

[Skyba]

To be a good manager you don't need to be able to do every job yourself. You need to understand what needs to be done and manage the project. I have always said that a job title is a dead give away of really what your job description is. I do laugh at project managers that work for a subcontractor looking after 1 trade, not really managing a 'project' as such is it. A project is the job as a whole, not 1 little art of it.

 

but anyway, I will step back and observe your little debate with the other member, I'm quite enjoying watching you riding a bike backwards.

 

 

Thats the typical view of someone who has "papers" to say they can manage, from my experience in a couple different fields people who don't have on job experience only make projects move slower and cause more problems than they fix, to be and effective manager you have to know how things REALLY work not just the theory you learn in a classroom. I'm currently working in a site where the architect and managers haven't got a clue, it leaves the likes of me and my site manager redesigning their cock ups to make things work.

[Skyba]

No that's because you are assuming what someone is meaning. I asked did you become an electrician because you wanted to get back to your labour roots. That's what I did say. What you think I meant was that being an electrician is lowly. Again, your words not mine.

 

and something else, you say when you were a project manager you were making money for someone else. That's must be exactly what you are doing now working on the refurb.

 

 

Yes it is but it's the end goal I am looking at, I know as a Tory it's a difficult concept to grasp but other people can look further into the future than a couple weeks and are able to take the decisions that will lead to the end product regardless of how long in the future that may be.

Nobody learns to be an electrician and works on their own projects from the get go, obviously unless they're a domestic installer who isn't actualy an electrician.

[wakeboard1980]

Thats the typical view of someone who has "papers" to say they can manage, from my experience in a couple different fields people who don't have on job experience only make projects move slower and cause more problems than they fix, to be and effective manager you have to know how things REALLY work not just the theory you learn in a classroom. I'm currently working in a site where the architect and managers haven't got a clue, it leaves the likes of me and my site manager redesigning their cock ups to make things work.

 

I agree, I always say you can't run a site just because you have a degree and a laptop. So you are a sparky that's redesigning the job with the site manager. You must be good, there's another feather in your cap.

 

do you think I have the 'papers' to say I can manage? I'm just asking because again what I say and what you are thinking I am saying are 2 different things.

[wakeboard1980]

Yes it is but it's the end goal I am looking at, I know as a Tory it's a difficult concept to grasp but other people can look further into the future than a couple weeks and are able to take the decisions that will lead to the end product regardless of how long in the future that may be.

Nobody learns to be an electrician and works on their own projects from the get go, obviously unless they're a domestic installer who isn't actualy an electrician.

 

By the looks of things you aren't a qualified electrician either, but put it out here that you are and that you redesign the job you are on with the site manager. Who said I'm a Tory? I plan things well into the future, so maybe that means I'm not a Tory then? It's not too difficult to grasp. I have found that subbies have a difficulty of seeing past their own work, hence the reason to have a good manager that can see the bigger picture.

 

So what do you want to do in the future then?

[Skyba]

I agree, I always say you can't run a site just because you have a degree and a laptop. So you are a sparky that's redesigning the job with the site manager. You must be good, there's another feather in your cap.

 

do you think I have the 'papers' to say I can manage? I'm just asking because again what I say and what you are thinking I am saying are 2 different things.

 

 

Its not about being good it's about being an electrician, I spent 3 years at college and a further 12 months after to carry out the NVQ to be an electrician, I should be able to solve problems that I am faces with its my job, should I have to on a big job like this?? No I shouldn't I should walk in and get a drawing and work from it. It's not like I'm Re-designing the electrical systems but we are having to redesign how we get them where we need them.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Skyba

[Skyba]

By the looks of things you aren't a qualified electrician either, but put it out here that you are and that you redesign the job you are on with the site manager. Who said I'm a Tory? I plan things well into the future, so maybe that means I'm not a Tory then? It's not too difficult to grasp. I have found that subbies have a difficulty of seeing past their own work, hence the reason to have a good manager that can see the bigger picture.

 

So what do you want to do in the future then?

 

 

Not all subbies, I always ensure that what I'm putting in is done with consideration to other trades otherwise it creates more work for me as the electrician is usually the one being moved as its easier to redirect us. And as for my quals I am all but qualified, by that I mean my NVQ logbook is completed, I completed my college work a couple years back now and my NVQ should have been signed off by now but there was a cock up with my assessor not filling something out, in the coming weeks I'll be having a technical discussion with him and then it will be completed. I'm being used on sites as an electrician as that's what I am I'm just awaiting 1 certificate which is on its way.

[wakeboard1980]

Its not about being good it's about being an electrician, I spent 3 years at college and a further 12 months after to carry out the NVQ to be an electrician, I should be able to solve problems that I am faces with its my job, should I have to on a big job like this?? No I shouldn't I should walk in and get a drawing and work from it. It's not like I'm Re-designing the electrical systems but we are having to redesign how we get them where we need them.

 

The logistics on a job like where to run things happens on every job, no matter how good the designers are, it's something you will realise with a bit more experience, it's happens everywhere to an extent. If you need to be that smart to be a sparky then trying to coordinate some services should not be much of an issue. The sparkys on my job do it without an issue.

[wakeboard1980]

Not all subbies, I always ensure that what I'm putting in is done with consideration to other trades otherwise it creates more work for me as the electrician is usually the one being moved as its easier to redirect us. And as for my quals I am all but qualified, by that I mean my NVQ logbook is completed, I completed my college work a couple years back now and my NVQ should have been signed off by now but there was a cock up with my assessor not filling something out, in the coming weeks I'll be having a technical discussion with him and then it will be completed. I'm being used on sites as an electrician as that's what I am I'm just awaiting 1 certificate which is on its way.

 

Do you work in a team or are you the only electrician on site?

[Skyba]

The logistics on a job like where to run things happens on every job, no matter how good the designers are, it's something you will realise with a bit more experience, it's happens everywhere to an extent. If you need to be that smart to be a sparky then trying to coordinate some services should not be much of an issue. The sparkys on my job do it without an issue.

 

It not an issue, it shouldn't be required to the extent it is in my job.

 

Heres an example, there is a void running along the outside of the building between 2 walls, there's is a supporting scaffold in the gap supporting the scaffold on the road above ensuring that the road doesn't collapse, the design team has routed all out mains power feeds along this void, we can't get in there until they remove the scaffold which won't be removed till the end of the job!!

 

We have to run our services into room with a space above the ceiling of around 50mm, that's to fit our containment and cable, some water pipes and a top hat and plasterboard of 80mm. The architect won't budge because they want to keep the ceiling heights. That's a prime example of the day to day jokes we have to face. Architects that can't count and seem to thing the walls of a 300 year old building will all be exactly straight and will line up with each other.

[Skyba]

Do you work in a team or are you the only electrician on site?

 

 

I have a site manager who is an electrician and at the moment I am working with a mate to help me and there is another guy who is in the same situation as me as per his nvq working with an apprentice. Another sign of how the Tories are pushing people like me into taking less and less money for the same jobs

[wakeboard1980]

It not an issue, it shouldn't be required to the extent it is in my job.

 

Heres an example, there is a void running along the outside of the building between 2 walls, there's is a supporting scaffold in the gap supporting the scaffold on the road above ensuring that the road doesn't collapse, the design team has routed all out mains power feeds along this void, we can't get in there until they remove the scaffold which won't be removed till the end of the job!!

 

We have to run our services into room with a space above the ceiling of around 50mm, that's to fit our containment and cable, some water pipes and a top hat and plasterboard of 80mm. The architect won't budge because they want to keep the ceiling heights. That's a prime example of the day to day jokes we have to face. Architects that can't count and seem to thing the walls of a 300 year old building will all be exactly straight and will line up with each other.

 

Sounds like someone didnt take into account what cables had to go in there when they designed the scaffold. What you are saying it should be a designed scaffold so it could have/can be built to suit.

 

are you the only sparky on the job or are you in a team?

[Perthbum]

Sounds like someone didnt take into account what cables had to go in there when they designed the scaffold. What you are saying it should be a designed scaffold so it could have/can be built to suit.

 

are you the only sparky on the job or are you in a team?

You have never worked on a building set I take, no one plans ahead like that....the scaffold goes up whatever, on a building site plumbers sparkes chippies just do there work end of, you do not hang about for someone to put a pipe in.

[Skyba]

Sounds like someone didnt take into account what cables had to go in there when they designed the scaffold. What you are saying it should be a designed scaffold so it could have/can be built to suit.

 

are you the only sparky on the job or are you in a team?

 

i just said, the site manager is a spark, I have a mate working with me (yet we are both paid the same but I have no choice because there is no work) another guy who is the site managers son who is in the same situation as me with his NVQ and he has an apprentice with him.

 

Also you say oh people should just get in its how it works, why?? My wage is being driven down yet the managers and designers are all on many more thousands than I am why should I pick up their crap?? They got that job because they're supposed to know what they're doing.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Skyba

[wakeboard1980]

I have a site manager who is an electrician and at the moment I am working with a mate to help me and there is another guy who is in the same situation as me as per his nvq working with an apprentice. Another sign of how the Tories are pushing people like me into taking less and less money for the same jobs

 

So the site manager is an electrician? So none of you guys doing the work are actually electricians? And it's got nothing to do with the Torys 'pushing' people like you into taking less money for the same jobs. It's got to do with you doing a job along with others that you are not technically qualified to do, but het you stil do it, and you are obviously working for someone that is not doing things right either. Nothing in your situation has to do with the government. It has to do with individuals not doing what they should be doing.

[wakeboard1980]

You have never worked on a building set I take, no one plans ahead like that....the scaffold goes up whatever, on a building site plumbers sparkes chippies just do there work end of, you do not hang about for someone to put a pipe in.

 

Do you know what a design scaffold is PB?

 

And here's the PIO comedian. Coming from the bloke that works in the local pub telling me that I have never worked on a building site. Ok I will leave it at that. You have blown my cover PB.

Edited March 29, 2013 by wakeboard1980

[Perthbum]

Do you know what a design scaffold is PB?

 

And here's the PIO comedian. Coming from the bloke that works in the local pub telling me that I have never worked on a building site. Ok I will leave it at that. You have blown my cover PB.

I worked on sites for many years, you honestly think they would hold back till a spark git his cables in :biglaugh: you live in a dream world.

[Skyba]

So the site manager is an electrician? So none of you guys doing the work are actually electricians? And it's got nothing to do with the Torys 'pushing' people like you into taking less money for the same jobs. It's got to do with you doing a job along with others that you are not technically qualified to do, but het you stil do it, and you are obviously working for someone that is not doing things right either. Nothing in your situation has to do with the government. It has to do with individuals not doing what they should be doing.

 

 

It does have everything to do with the Tories, they've grown as many people out of work as possible flooding the market with workers allowing companies to take advantage if them by driving wages down and getting people to do jobs below their pay grade, I'm technically an improver, JIB states I should be on at least £10.62 per hour, I'm no less than that and doing a job another pay grade above improver, why?? Because I have bills to pay and there are thousands of people out there who would walk into my job in a heartbeat so I have to accept it and get on.

 

Thisnwouldnt be the case if the government invested in infrastructure and created more jobs so I wouldn't be one of thousands ready to do the job.

[Perthbum]

It does have everything to do with the Tories, they've grown as many people out of work as possible flooding the market with workers allowing companies to take advantage if them by driving wages down and getting people to do jobs below their pay grade, I'm technically an improver, JIB states I should be on at least £10.62 per hour, I'm no less than that and doing a job another pay grade above improver, why?? Because I have bills to pay and there are thousands of people out there who would walk into my job in a heartbeat so I have to accept it and get on.

 

Thisnwouldnt be the case if the government invested in infrastructure and created more jobs so I wouldn't be one of thousands ready to do the job.

agree, this goverment do not have a clue and are actually dangerous and worrying to have in charge, investment is desperately needed.

[wakeboard1980]

I worked on sites for many years, you honestly think they would hold back till a spark git his cables in :biglaugh: you live in a dream world.

 

Did I say hold back? The give away is in the word design. I've just done it funnily enough. For more than 1 trade.

 

worked on sites for many years, how many exactly? Thought you did jobs for the local timber yard and put out fires.

[Perthbum]

Did I say hold back? The give away is in the word design. I've just done it funnily enough. For more than 1 trade.

 

worked on sites for many years, how many exactly? Thought you did jobs for the local timber yard and put out fires.

God you are boring....have you a life outside of PIO.

[wakeboard1980]

It does have everything to do with the Tories, they've grown as many people out of work as possible flooding the market with workers allowing companies to take advantage if them by driving wages down and getting people to do jobs below their pay grade, I'm technically an improver, JIB states I should be on at least £10.62 per hour, I'm no less than that and doing a job another pay grade above improver, why?? Because I have bills to pay and there are thousands of people out there who would walk into my job in a heartbeat so I have to accept it and get on.

 

Thisnwouldnt be the case if the government invested in infrastructure and created more jobs so I wouldn't be one of thousands ready to do the job.

 

Thousands to do your job....hahaha now I've heard it. I can't even get labourers, and that's through 2 agencies, and the ones they sent me before Xmas were crap.

 

You said it you are technically an improver, your boss is the one robbing you. Not the government. Your boss sounds dodgey if he doesn't have qualified electricians carrying out electrical work, yes your site manager may be a spark but how can he work with the 3 of you and manage the site as well.

 

i thought you invested in extra kit so you could make more money? And now you say you aren't being laid right. So what is it? You telling bullshlt stories or what?

[wakeboard1980]

God you are boring....have you a life outside of PIO.

 

What does that post have to do with how long you have worked on building sites for? What does it matter to you if I have a life outside off PIO? Sorry my life isn't as exciting and adventurous as yours. I have often dreamed of living in a world like yours, then I wake up and realise its just a dream.

 

so how long have you worked on building sites for?

[Skyba]

Thousands to do your job....hahaha now I've heard it. I can't even get labourers, and that's through 2 agencies, and the ones they sent me before Xmas were crap.

 

You said it you are technically an improver, your boss is the one robbing you. Not the government. Your boss sounds dodgey if he doesn't have qualified electricians carrying out electrical work, yes your site manager may be a spark but how can he work with the 3 of you and manage the site as well.

 

i thought you invested in extra kit so you could make more money? And now you say you aren't being laid right. So what is it? You telling bullshlt stories or what?

 

If you actually read what I said I invested do I could do some domestic work, this was for times when I don't have work through agencies, read it again. I live in Bristol a place I've only lived for 12 months, not easy to get word of mouth going in a llace where yoy only know other electricians, if I just waited for domestic work I'd be skint I have to do both, agency work day to day and private when it comes on the weekends and evenings.

 

And yes thousands, nobody Round here has problems getting labour... You must live in the only place in the country that doesn't have mass unemployment

Edited March 29, 2013 by Skyba

[Skyba]

I've only been on this site for 5 weeks and I've had at least 4-5 people come to me at the gates asking If there's work and I go to the gate twice a day to go to lunch. I guess they're all talking crap and are all in 50k plus jobs

[wakeboard1980]

If you actually read what I said I invested do I could do some domestic work, this was for times when I don't have work through agencies, read it again. I live in Bristol a place I've only lived for 12 months, not easy to get word of mouth going in a llace where yoy only know other electricians, if I just waited for domestic work I'd be skint I have to do both, agency work day to day and private when it comes on the weekends and evenings.

 

And yes thousands, nobody Round here has problems getting labour... You must live in the only place in the country that doesn't have mass unemployment

 

Is it that bad?

 

And I do read what you say, you just need to remember what you say. I'd be talking to your boss once you are fully qualified and be asking for a pay rise. You can't expect one at he moment because you aren't qualified, I don't think anyone would pay you sparky rates.