Poor poor Tories you couldn't make it up!!

[Skyba]

Black and minority ethnic people remain highly supportive of the Labour party, with 68% (two-thirds) voting Labour.

 

Of course its 'your fact' which has any credit, its OK if you hadn't read the report, but you keep denying the facts.

You would actually have a bit more credibility if you just accepted what is right in front of your nose and tried to move the debate on, you're not from Stratford are you?

 

 

The debate will never move on with you because you feel that you are the only one who knows anything.

 

68% of the VOTE!!! How is that difficult to understand, if there are 1,000,000 immigrants in the country but only 100 vote 68 labour and 13 Tory that's your percentage, do those votes make a difference in real terms?? NO. You act as if you are so intelligent yet the simplest of points you fail to understand.

[StevieF8]

The facts are:

 

 

Ethnic minorities make up around 8% of the electorate

 

 

Electorate – 45,597,461

 

 

Therefore, Ethnic minorities = 3,600,000 (Rounded down)

 

 

Those who are registered turnout rates are very similar to white British ones.

 

 

Total Turnout in 2010: 65.1%

 

 

Therefore, Ethnic minorities turnout = 2,300,000 (Rounded down)

 

 

Then we are back to what I initially said:

 

 

68% voted Labour = 1,500,000

16% voted Conservative = 360,000

14% voted Lib Dem = 320,000

 

 

So, a little bit more than 100 voters

 

 

Keep trying to deny the facts, it's making you look very plausible.

[Skyba]

The only one denying facts is you, that number is totally insignificant, you said that migrants would change the face of the vote yet they don't. If you break down those numbers further to how many live in a certain area etc you may get 1 maybe 2 seats that are effected and they would probably be labour seats anyway.

 

You think you know it all but you don't, keep throwing your "facts" around and I'll keep pointing out the holes, I have presented you with many facts and so have other which you just ignore, every single thing you've claimed I've happily explained your flaws.

 

 

Also once again you seem to be finding it difficult to differenciate between an example and a real number

[StevieF8]

The only one denying facts is you, that number is totally insignificant, you said that migrants would change the face of the vote yet they don't. If you break down those numbers further to how many live in a certain area etc you may get 1 maybe 2 seats that are effected and they would probably be labour seats anyway.

 

You think you know it all but you don't, keep throwing your "facts" around and I'll keep pointing out the holes, I have presented you with many facts and so have other which you just ignore, every single thing you've claimed I've happily explained your flaws.

 

 

Also once again you seem to be finding it difficult to differenciate between an example and a real number

 

oh so now you 'know' the demographic...

 

You haven't posted one link to back up your 'facts'....You haven't explained anything, you haven't backed up one of your wild accusations.......do you write for the Sunday Sport?

 

Even Labour have admitted they got it wrong on immigration and you continue to deny it....

[Skyba]

I've not said that labour didn't get immigration wrong, I think it was a balls up, when have I denied that?? I work as an electrician on a building site, migration has destroyed many trades, my trade not as much due to the learning you have to undertake for industrial work, my wages are being driven down bu the governments lack of movement on the economy but plater boarders wages are driven down by migrant workers. its a disgrace. I just pointed out that your theory on labour letting migrants in to get the vote is rubbish. Also I use my own brain I don't type stuff into google and look at the top hit.

also you can be a labour supporter and still criticise you know, they wont get everything right but they get a damn site more right than the tories do.

 

I just had a look to see if I could find actual numbers of voters not percentages of voters and found the report you got all your info from, with a quick skim (can't be bothered to look to much it's late) it doesn't say anything about the actual numbers so you've basically given a percentage and then guessed a number!

[StevieF8]

The Report:

 

 

http://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/EMBESbriefingFINALx.pdf

 

 

The Figures:

 

 

http://www.ukpolitical.info/2010.htm

 

 

I haven't guessed any numbers at all, I did my calculations by cross-referencing the 2 sites posted above.

 

 

If I've got my maths wrong, I'm happy to admit it.

 

 

You're the one who's just guessing, 'facts' to back up your point and continuing to argue when you're corrected, most people would say 'well I never knew the figures, but that's what I got told/understood' and move on, you just continue to argue....

 

 

And FYI, like I said about 20 posts back, it wasn't 'my theory' a Labour speechwriter said as much in a report a few years ago....

I posted that, you attacked me, you were proved wrong time and time again, yet you continue to attack.....

[Skyba]

hand on I've not denied or agreed with those numbers i merely pointed out how even with your numbers it wouldn't effect the voting

 

where have you proved me wrong?? There's still only one bit of proof about how migrants effect voting and that's London, also another way to prove the part about voters and where they are when counting migrant voters, Bradford bielection!! An example of clustered migrant voters, that effected 1 seat, hardly election changing

[StevieF8]

you've basically given a percentage and then guessed a number!

 

 

I never guessed, I calculated

 

 

hand on I've not denied or agreed with those numbers i merely pointed out how even with your numbers it wouldn't effect the voting

 

 

So 1.5m votes are meaningless?

[StevieF8]

You edited your post....

 

We got a Coalition, so clearly every seat matters.

 

 

Show me your proof...not your idea of proof, send me a link to a report, an investigation, something to back up your argument

 

I'll even admit you're right if you can show me. Stop guessing and expecting everyone to believe you...prove it.

 

Thats all, I'm asking....if what you're saying is right, it shouldn't be so hard to post the proof.

[wakeboard1980]

I've not said that labour didn't get immigration wrong, I think it was a balls up, when have I denied that?? I work as an electrician on a building site, migration has destroyed many trades, my trade not as much due to the learning you have to undertake for industrial work, my wages are being driven down bu the governments lack of movement on the economy but plater boarders wages are driven down by migrant workers. its a disgrace. I just pointed out that your theory on labour letting migrants in to get the vote is rubbish. Also I use my own brain I don't type stuff into google and look at the top hit.

also you can be a labour supporter and still criticise you know, they wont get everything right but they get a damn site more right than the tories do.

I just had a look to see if I could find actual numbers of voters not percentages of voters and found the report you got all your info from, with a quick skim (can't be bothered to look to much it's late) it doesn't say anything about the actual numbers so you've basically given a percentage and then guessed a number!

 

I think that would qualify as a denial of the numbers.

[Skyba]

You edited your post....

 

We got a Coalition, so clearly every seat matters.

 

 

Show me your proof...not your idea of proof, send me a link to a report, an investigation, something to back up your argument

 

I'll even admit you're right if you can show me. Stop guessing and expecting everyone to believe you...prove it.

 

Thats all, I'm asking....if what you're saying is right, it shouldn't be so hard to post the proof.

 

A report doesn't constitute as proof you know!! Just be wise someone writes a long story about it it doesn't make it true, what is proof is the results of two elections which I have pointed out to you.

 

i stated that migration wouldn't have a notable effect on voting, meaning that it wouldn't decide a GENERAL election one way or another. In this country migrant tend to live in certain areas, this will cluster their vote meaning they will effect a certain constituency, I don't know if you know this butnelections are won by seats not individual votes. Bradford bielection proves that a cluster of votes in an area CAN effect 1 seat IF there is a cluster of migrant votes, this still doesn't effect the outcome of a general election as a whole though.

 

The London mayoral election also proves that migrant votes don't always favour labour, London has more migrants in it that white British citizens yet borris Johnson won the election.

 

That is ACTUAL proof, not a report written by someone in a new room who has a bias toward one party or another!!

 

there is no point in debating if everytime someone points out a FACT you just state that its rubbish because it doesn't like up with your belief, you have to give a valid reason why, percentages are up for misinterpretation, and even when you get the numbers to have to analyse them properly to determine their ACTUAL effect. Try using your own mind to make a decision on what is actually happening rather than google!!!

[Skyba]

I think that would qualify as a denial of the numbers.

 

 

How is it?? I accepted his numbers and showed him how even with the numbers he has given me his point is mute, so unless he has massively underestimated his own numbers, which he claims are fact, he's still wrong to believe that (A) migrant voters always vote Tory and (B) migrant voters can decide the outcome of a general election

[wakeboard1980]

How is it?? I accepted his numbers and showed him how even with the numbers he has given me his point is mute, so unless he has massively underestimated his own numbers, which he claims are fact, he's still wrong to believe that (A) migrant voters always vote Tory and (B) migrant voters can decide the outcome of a general election

 

Because you said he was making numbers up, and when he showed you the numbers you made that statement. Not fussed about he numbers really. Just having a laugh watching you back pedal, just make sue the bike doesn't have pedal brakes and you end up falling off

 

For someone that is telling him he can't see the other side to his debate you are certainly doing a good job of doing the same.

 

So why did you stop being a project manager to become an electrician? A big difference really. Was it because you wanted to get back to your labour roots?

[Guest chris955]

67 pages, woohoo. What a waste of bandwidth

[wakeboard1980]

67 pages, woohoo. What a waste of bandwidth

 

Im quite enjoying watching these 2 debate. I'm just a bit worried that skyba is going to fall off his bike, then we will have an issue.

[Skyba]

Because you said he was making numbers up, and when he showed you the numbers you made that statement. Not fussed about he numbers really. Just having a laugh watching you back pedal, just make sue the bike doesn't have pedal brakes and you end up falling off

 

For someone that is telling him he can't see the other side to his debate you are certainly doing a good job of doing the same.

 

So why did you stop being a project manager to become an electrician? A big difference really. Was it because you wanted to get back to your labour roots?

 

 

No back pedalling from me, if you actually READ what was written I stated I couldn't find his numbers yet I still went on to show him his numbers don't proved his point by showing him 2 ACTUAL examples of migrant votes not being really able to effect a general election, one in which it showed they didn't vote labour but they did effect only one seat, and another where they voted Tory!!

 

 

And not that it's any of your bussiness, I fell ill and nearly died, had to return to the uk for hospital tretment which went on for 5 years, I decided to work some learning around my weekly hospital visits which would allow me to find work once better, I never got better and decided to have a panproctocolectomy (google it) now I am just about to finish my NVQ this week.

 

Also you talk as if being an electrician is lowly, as a project manager I worked for someone else making them money, being a spark gives ME a skill, I own my knowledge, being a good spark is not easy, taking an interest in the maths and design work isn't a silly mans game, many people fail to become electricians because they can't understand the level of maths required to get their head around the theory, even less on to do design work.

 

I'm happy being an electrician, I can go out there with my skill and earn myself money, as a project manager I'm never going to he able to do anything other than make other people money.

[wakeboard1980]

I've not said that labour didn't get immigration wrong, I think it was a balls up, when have I denied that?? I work as an electrician on a building site, migration has destroyed many trades, my trade not as much due to the learning you have to undertake for industrial work, my wages are being driven down bu the governments lack of movement on the economy but plater boarders wages are driven down by migrant workers. its a disgrace. I just pointed out that your theory on labour letting migrants in to get the vote is rubbish. Also I use my own brain I don't type stuff into google and look at the top hit.

also you can be a labour supporter and still criticise you know, they wont get everything right but they get a damn site more right than the tories do.

 

I just had a look to see if I could find actual numbers of voters not percentages of voters and found the report you got all your info from, with a quick skim (can't be bothered to look to much it's late) it doesn't say anything about the actual numbers so you've basically given a percentage and then guessed a number!

 

I think this is what you actually said, just in case your forgot.

[Skyba]

I think this is what you actually said, just in case your forgot.

 

 

Yes it is l, that was an accusation, did I deny the number though?? No I took it and explained how it didn't help his theory

[wakeboard1980]

No back pedalling from me, if you actually READ what was written I stated I couldn't find his numbers yet I still went on to show him his numbers don't proved his point by showing him 2 ACTUAL examples of migrant votes not being really able to effect a general election, one in which it showed they didn't vote labour but they did effect only one seat, and another where they voted Tory!!

 

 

And not that it's any of your bussiness, I fell ill and nearly died, had to return to the uk for hospital tretment which went on for 5 years, I decided to work some learning around my weekly hospital visits which would allow me to find work once better, I never got better and decided to have a panproctocolectomy (google it) now I am just about to finish my NVQ this week.

 

Also you talk as if being an electrician is lowly, as a project manager I worked for someone else making them money, being a spark gives ME a skill, I own my knowledge, being a good spark is not easy, taking an interest in the maths and design work isn't a silly mans game, many people fail to become electricians because they can't understand the level of maths required to get their head around the theory, even less on to do design work.

 

I'm happy being an electrician, I can go out there with my skill and earn myself money, as a project manager I'm never going to he able to do anything other than make other people money.

 

If you want to throw around how good you were at 21 looking after multi million pound drilling contracts as a regional project manager, then become an electrician then people are going to ask why you changed your career. No need to be upset about someone asking a question. Good for you that you enjoy being an electrician, life's too short o do something you don't enjoy. Never said an electrician is lowly, they are your words, do you think its lowly? So are you a qualified sparky yet or not so if you are only just finishing your NVQ? You must be a smart fella, well you certainly let us all know on here what you have done and hat brains you need to b. sparky.

 

as a project manager you can make yourself money, you should have picked up skills as a project manager to start your own business if you want, that is unless you were only a project manager by name, I see a lot of that around now, people with all these fancy titles but don't know shlt.

[Skyba]

If you want to throw around how good you were at 21 looking after multi million pound drilling contracts as a regional project manager, then become an electrician then people are going to ask why you changed your career. No need to be upset about someone asking a question. Good for you that you enjoy being an electrician, life's too short o do something you don't enjoy. Never said an electrician is lowly, they are your words, do you think its lowly? So are you a qualified sparky yet or not so if you are only just finishing your NVQ? You must be a smart fella, well you certainly let us all know on here what you have done and hat brains you need to b. sparky.

 

as a project manager you can make yourself money, you should have picked up skills as a project manager to start your own business if you want, that is unless you were only a project manager by name, I see a lot of that around now, people with all these fancy titles but don't know shlt.

 

 

Im working as a spark but I've been waiting for my NVQ to be signed off, also I didn't say it was lowly you asked why I would possibly go from project manager to being a sparky as if it was a step down.

 

I was a project manager on credit, I got my opportunity through who I knew but I only started on the rigs and worked up in a short amount of time because I was good at my job, I would never manage anything without knowing my stuff because I think it's wrong to go on a site and tell people what to do if I couldn't go to that site and do every job on it myself.

[Guest chris955]

Im quite enjoying watching these 2 debate. I'm just a bit worried that skyba is going to fall off his bike, then we will have an issue.

I had a bike when I was a kid, when you backpeddled it was the brake, made for some interesting moments if you forgot

[wakeboard1980]

No back pedalling from me, if you actually READ what was written I stated I couldn't find his numbers yet I still went on to show him his numbers don't proved his point by showing him 2 ACTUAL examples of migrant votes not being really able to effect a general election, one in which it showed they didn't vote labour but they did effect only one seat, and another where they voted Tory!!

 

 

And not that it's any of your bussiness, I fell ill and nearly died, had to return to the uk for hospital tretment which went on for 5 years, I decided to work some learning around my weekly hospital visits which would allow me to find work once better, I never got better and decided to have a panproctocolectomy (google it) now I am just about to finish my NVQ this week.

 

Also you talk as if being an electrician is lowly, as a project manager I worked for someone else making them money, being a spark gives ME a skill, I own my knowledge, being a good spark is not easy, taking an interest in the maths and design work isn't a silly mans game, many people fail to become electricians because they can't understand the level of maths required to get their head around the theory, even less on to do design work.

 

I'm happy being an electrician, I can go out there with my skill and earn myself money, as a project manager I'm never going to he able to do anything other than make other people money.

 

Your words not mine. I never said it was lowly.

[Skyba]

Your words not mine. I never said it was lowly.

 

 

Yeah let's totally forget the few words before it which structure the sentence then!! Give up now you're clutching at straws

[wakeboard1980]

Im working as a spark but I've been waiting for my NVQ to be signed off, also I didn't say it was lowly you asked why I would possibly go from project manager to being a sparky as if it was a step down.

 

I was a project manager on credit, I got my opportunity through who I knew but I only started on the rigs and worked up in a short amount of time because I was good at my job, I would never manage anything without knowing my stuff because I think it's wrong to go on a site and tell people what to do if I couldn't go to that site and do every job on it myself.

 

To be a good manager you don't need to be able to do every job yourself. You need to understand what needs to be done and manage the project. I have always said that a job title is a dead give away of really what your job description is. I do laugh at project managers that work for a subcontractor looking after 1 trade, not really managing a 'project' as such is it. A project is the job as a whole, not 1 little part of it. Being a project manager also involves skill, a skill that some people don't have.

 

but anyway, I will step back and observe your little debate with the other member, I'm quite enjoying watching you riding a bike backwards.

[wakeboard1980]

Yeah let's totally forget the few words before it which structure the sentence then!! Give up now you're clutching at straws

 

No that's because you are assuming what someone is meaning. I asked did you become an electrician because you wanted to get back to your labour roots. That's what I did say. What you think I meant was that being an electrician is lowly. Again, your words not mine.

 

and something else, you say when you were a project manager you were making money for someone else. That's must be exactly what you are doing now working on the refurb.