My findings back in the UK

[Guest guest74886]

In a free world with a global economy why do you assume that it is a bad thing for people to come and go as suits their life?

 

If you were running the UK would you likewise investigate why it loses about 60% of its "customers" in terms of net migration?

 

 

 

Given that Australia has far more applications than approvals for immigration each year the potential customer base is hardly quaking in its boots. There are even PIO subscribers still arriving despite the badmouthing. :shocked:

 

 

 

How do you know?

 

 

 

Well, at the moment there is. And there is intense debate in some quarters as to the level of population Australia can sustain and whether the immigration levels should be drastically reduced right now. Lack of migrants is not going to be a problem for a while yet - if ever.

 

 

 

So the hundreds of migrant support organisations and groups throughout Australia were set up because no one cared?

 

 

 

I've heard many reasons why people like Australia but I've never heard that one before. It certainly wouldn't be Australians saying that - compulsory voting interferes with their Saturday sport. :wink:

 

Hi Skani

Well where could we start, perhaps as 'harpodom' says 'she'll be right mate' is the right epithet for the Australian attitude to any any constructive criticism of how Australia carries on, but I will try to enlighten.

Social policy research- how can a country which has its original owners still living in poverty and with a life expectancy of approx 20% less than its adjoining white neighbours not have a clue in the 21st century as to how to tackle the problem nor have a country wide set of policies to start and address the problems, just a rag bag of initiatives which are given to a multiplicity of agencies which are then left to squander the money allocated to them without any oversight of whether they achieve any improvements for their clients or not.

How can State Govts be allowed to pick and choose what policies they will and won't fund, they are still arguing about who pays for a experimental attempt at funding for the disabled, Australia has just woken up to the hardships and poverty that disabled people face here in Australia and are just starting to consider, not implement but just consider, some funding for those with disabilities instead of treating disability as a matter for charity to deal with, just as they have always done with social provision.

The State in Europe has been funding support for the disabled for 30 years plus. But we now have to be told how marvelous Australia is in discovering that it should be doing something, well I suppose it is if you compare it to the beloved USA, which is where it seems Australia always benchmarks itself to.

As far as the never ending queue of immigrants wanting to come here it might shock people to realise that the queue is increasingly composed of people from the Indian subcontinent, China and Sth Korea.

Other countries are trying to encourage inward migration of the best educated in a century which is going to become more and more dominated by ideas and computer wizardry, this will be the only way that countries with an expanding old age population will be able to support that aging demographic, not by limiting who comes to those seen as having immediate labour market value.

And so I could go on but its a pointless excercise 'She'll be right mate' is the motto of 'The Lucky Country', which was by the way an ironic comment by an Australian, David Horne, about how a country which had so little understanding of the situation it was in managed to keep on being prosperous.

At that point, rant over, I'll sign off.

Edited November 1, 2012 by guest74886

[Skani]

I think people need to take some time out and vote here:

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/chewing-fat/166947-you-dull.html

 

Done! Happy now? :laugh:

[Jojogunne]

You post in reponse to a particular comment. If your response is relevant to that comment...then it's relevant, full stop.

 

I did say "as these may not be relevant" I didn't say they weren't? I agree, if a response is relevant then fine. But just dropping in to big up oz in this section, which is about going back to the UK isn't to me. Full stop.

[Skani]

But just dropping in to big up oz in this section, which is about going back to the UK isn't to me.

 

I agree. I don't keep an eye on this forum so I don't know the regular contributors. Even so, I doubt whether anyone would just drop in "to big up oz": I assume everyone feels their contribution is relevant to the discussion.

[Jojogunne]

I agree. I don't keep an eye on this forum so I don't know the regular contributors. Even so, I doubt whether anyone would just drop in "to big up oz": I assume everyone feels their contribution is relevant to the discussion.

 

I'd like to think that too. After reading the many posts on here, somehow you get a vague feeling that's not the case unfortunately.

[Skani]

Well where could we start, perhaps as 'harpodom' says 'she'll be right mate' is the right epithet for the Australian attitude to any any constructive criticism of how Australia carries on,

 

Harpo accused me of being "complacent". That assumes that I am

(1) content with the immigration status quo and

(2) content for it to continue unchanged

- neither of which I mentioned.

 

 

I suggest a little less rant and a little more understanding would be helpful.

 

Australia has just woken up to the hardships and poverty that disabled people face here in Australia and are just starting to consider, not implement but just consider, some funding for those with disabilities instead of treating disability as a matter for charity to deal with ....The State in Europe has been funding support for the disabled for 30 years plus.

 

Goodness...how advanced. :notworthy:

Australia has actually had a disability pension since 1908 (NSW) and, in 1910, introduced it countrywide....well before the UK and Europe. (The first disability pension in the UK was a war injuries-only pension, introduced after WW1).

The talk about disability you have heard is about reform of the way the funding is distributed, not an introduction of funding.

 

We could start discussing the indigenous question, but we wont. I'd fear for Harpo's health...he'd have apoplexy.

And besides, it's nothing to do with migration...and the subject of this forum. :wink:

 

As far as the never ending queue of immigrants wanting to come here it might shock people to realise that the queue is increasingly composed of people from the Indian subcontinent, China and Sth Korea.

 

It shouldn't shock anyone unless they are blind...the evidence is in all cities and most towns. And what's wrong with Asian immigration? I don't know any Indians but the Chinese and South Koreans I know are very intelligent, hard working, law abiding, education oriented and perfectly happy to accept the country's laws. Perfect migrants actually. (And their food is very yummy). You wouldn't be implying that they are less desireable immigrants than Brits or Europeans?

 

'She'll be right mate' is the motto of 'The Lucky Country', which was by the way an ironic comment by an Australian, David Horne,

 

His name was Donald Horne. I read the book - when it was published...in 1964. Even Australia has changed a bit since then...believe it or not. :rolleyes:

 

But back to your original statement: why does a return rate of 20% of UK migrants need "serious investigation"?

Edited November 2, 2012 by Skani

[digitalis]

Let's face it, it's nationalism.

 

Every country has their nationalists who are overly patriotic and will defend their way of life and culture to the death, regardless of the actual facts. I think it probably is human nature to an extent.

 

The objective reality is that it's pretty much impossible to split two developed ('first world') nations and so much of it comes down to what you have been brought up with and are used to. I also believe that people 'imprint' on their countries of origin just like children do with their parents. It is what they are familiar with and what they have known since birth and I guess it is natural to defend this against unfamiliar cultures and ways of life. Some people do take it to the absolute extreme though whilst most others keep some sort of rational logic about it.

 

Anyway, despite so many people insisting that the cultures of the UK and Aus are poles apart, the fact is that Australia was mostly settled by people from the UK and much of the culture was transplanted from over there. Also the majority of Australians still have relatively recent UK heritage and are Northern European genetically. The two places have more in common than not to be quite frank.

 

You are so far off the mark it's not even funny. Firstly, why have you got some axe to grind about patriotism? Are you a Communist, like a few other members here?

 

Secondly, and this is where PIO really gets confused so i'll say this LOUD and CLEAR.

 

Regardless of their genetic stock, the vast majority of Aussies IME do not consider themselves of British origin, or at least begrudgingly admit it, do not identify with British culture and in fact I would even go so far to say actually go out of their way to stray away from it. Oz is very Americanised so Brits coming here with a view that it will be like a version episode of Karl Pilkington where he visits a tribe who worship Prince Phillip will be sorely disappointed.

 

It took me back at first as well as the general view in the UK of Oz is as essentially second cousins seperated by 10,000 miles is not seen in the same way by Aussies at all. I think a lot of homesick Brits here are taken aback by this form of "Paris Syndrome" (~google it). Aussies are not interested in Britain or anything British. They are slightly interested in how bad the recessions is/was and the weather but that's about it. Get used to it folks.

 

Also the mods need to start clamping down on the naysayers here as before long this will be a purely MBTTUK forum IMO. The whingers who have wrapped on continue to make delusional statements to emotionally justify their decision need to be given the heave ho. What purpose do they serve here, honestly, when all they do is piss on peoples parades?

Edited November 2, 2012 by digitalis

[Guest guest74886]

Hi To Everyone following this altercation

 

I think we all need to take a chill pill and let sleeping dogs lie in the shade, but you are right it was Donald Horne, I just had it fixed in my head it was David, I knew it began with a D.

( I know I just said take a chill pill and let the dogs quieten down but like a dog with a bone I do just have to say a disability pension doesn't fund the aids, special housing and adaptations and extra care that people with disabilities need)

I really will take that pill now and the OH will be home soon and I won't be able to squander my time on here until next week, which will be good for my blood pressure

LoL

Oz to France

 

 

I suggest a little less rant and a little more understanding would be helpful.

 

 

 

Goodness...how advanced. :notworthy:

Australia has actually had a disability pension since 1908 (NSW) and, in 1910, introduced it countrywide....well before the UK and Europe. (The first disability pension in the UK was a war injuries-only pension, introduced after WW1).

The talk about disability you have heard is about reform of the way the funding is distributed, not an introduction of funding.

 

We could start discussing the indigenous question, but we wont. I'd fear for Harpo's health...he'd have apoplexy.

And besides, it's nothing to do with migration...and the subject of this forum. :wink:

 

 

 

It shouldn't shock anyone unless they are blind...the evidence is in all cities and most towns. And what's wrong with Asian immigration? I don't know any Indians but the Chinese and South Koreans I know are very intelligent, hard working, law abiding, education oriented and perfectly happy to accept the country's laws. Perfect migrants actually. (And their food is very yummy). You wouldn't be implying that they are less desireable immigrants than Brits or Europeans?

 

 

 

His name was Donald Horne. I read the book - when it was published...in 1964. Even Australia has changed a bit since then...believe it or not. :rolleyes:

 

But back to your original statement: why does a return rate of 20% of UK migrants need "serious investigation"?

[Skani]

I do just have to say a disability pension doesn't fund the aids, special housing and adaptations and extra care that people with disabilities need

 

Which is why the Commonwealth and State governments fund those in Australia. And that's a long way from your claim

 

instead of treating disability as a matter for charity to deal with, just as they have always done with social provision.

 

"Social provision" has been a government concern since the first age pensions were introduced in 1900. That's 112 years that they haven't been leaving it "for charity to deal with".

Edited November 2, 2012 by Skani

[Freckleface]

I didn't say they actively seek to identify with anything. I'm talking about identifying common ground between the 2 countries.

 

If you are talking about Govt systems etc then I agree with you. If you are talking about the culture of the people I'm not so sure.

 

Before I joined PIO I thought Brits and Aussies were kissing cousins with heaps of things in common. However, after 12 months on PIO my opinions are shifting. I acknowledge that PIO may not be a very good representation (you are better placed than I am to make that call) but you only have to read this section of the forum to see there appears to be a huge gap between us these days.

 

The Brits I know in the real world don't echo the sentiments I read on here but I have read on more than one occasion on here that Brits don't speak their minds when talking to Aussies - so who knows what they really think.

 

I have been lucky with the people I have employed from the UK but I must admit that although they have taken to living in Aust like ducks to water it hasn't all been smooth sailing whereas the Americans on staff have just slotted in.

 

Anyway I have to go and start dinner now - catch you later.

[friedparsley]

Hey Freckleface, if you are, as you say an Australian, what are you doing blogging on Poms in Oz?This part is entirely about moving back to the UK, yet here you are giving out your opinions, which by the way count for nothing as you are not a POM.

[Skani]

Hey Freckleface, if you are, as you say an Australian, what are you doing blogging on Poms in Oz?

 

She's not blogging, but she does provide useful advice - in a very civil manner, which is more than can be said for you.

 

If you check the rules for Poms in Oz you will find that there is no requirement to be a Pom - in fact, there are New Zealanders, Americans, Canadians, South Africans, Indians, Pakistanis, Dutch...and undoubtedly many other nationalities who contribute to PIO.

[Parley]

Hey Freckleface, if you are, as you say an Australian, what are you doing blogging on Poms in Oz?This part is entirely about moving back to the UK, yet here you are giving out your opinions, which by the way count for nothing as you are not a POM.

 

What a ridiculous comment.

So no ones opinion or advice is relevant unless you happen to be a pom ?

[Freckleface]

Hey Freckleface, if you are, as you say an Australian, what are you doing blogging on Poms in Oz?This part is entirely about moving back to the UK, yet here you are giving out your opinions, which by the way count for nothing as you are not a POM.

 

I'm sorry you feel this way. However if you feel that strongly about it you should raise it with Admin and ask them to restrict the membership to Poms.

[Guest chris955]

Well if anyone wants to see how to completely derail a thread and take it so far off topic it is unrecognisable just look here The amazing thing is that at least the last few pages are almost entirely being posted on by people with absolutely no intention of returning to the UK or have recently returned LOL

Edited November 2, 2012 by homewardbound588
for the pedants

[Johndoe]

Well if anyone wants to see how to completely derail a thread and take it so far off topic it is unrecognisable just look here The amazing thing is that at least the last few pages are almost entirely being posted on by people with absolutely no intention of returning to the UK LOL

 

Such as yourself, who has no intention of returning as you already have.

[tea4too]

I really don’t understand the animosity in some of these posts. And I’m starting to wonder if there really is any point in having a section of the forum for people moving back to the UK if people with no interest in that subject think, for whatever reason, it is ok to continue an argument about issues that have nothing to do with life in the UK. The debate is fine, the issues are (mostly) interesting, but I can’t see how they have anything to do the title of the thread or the purpose of this section of the forum. And I don’t see how they are of any use to someone considering the upheaval of a second move around the world.

 

I know, like everyone else I can report the posts, ignore them or respond to them. Well it has to be pretty offensive for me to report, I’ve tried ignoring, and this is my second response. And with that I’ll withdraw from the thread ‘cos I ‘ve said my piece and I haven’t the heart for any more flak. :dull:

[Guest chris955]

I really don’t understand the animosity in some of these posts. And I’m starting to wonder if there really is any point in having a section of the forum for people moving back to the UK if people with no interest in that subject think, for whatever reason, it is ok to continue an argument about issues that have nothing to do with life in the UK. The debate is fine, the issues are (mostly) interesting, but I can’t see how they have anything to do the title of the thread or the purpose of this section of the forum. And I don’t see how they are of any use to someone considering the upheaval of a second move around the world.

 

I know, like everyone else I can report the posts, ignore them or respond to them. Well it has to be pretty offensive for me to report, I’ve tried ignoring, and this is my second response. And with that I’ll withdraw from the thread ‘cos I ‘ve said my piece and I haven’t the heart for any more flak. :dull:

I agree, it is truly bizarre. Dont leave the thread though.

[Guest]

I can't see the point of why an Ozzie would lurk on a British forum either, especially the section of the forum where posters are dissatisfied with Oz and are going home.

As the Ozzie's don't like to hear anything negative I would assume reading this section must be like self abuse :biggrin:

 

I've nothing against the person mentioned here, I'm just amazed why would you do it or why they haven't anything better to do.

 

Why not go out an enjoy the outdoors that the other sections are harking on about?

[Guest The Pom Queen]

OMG I haven't looked at this thread for ages and look how off topic it as gone. This thread was to do with a members finding on returning home in the MBTUK section of the forum, which, may I add, is very helpful for those who are not settling here.

 

Australia isn't for everyone and I'm totally fed up that the members who arent happy are always being ridiculed. Yes they may say something that you don't agree with but for goodness sake go easy on them, some of these members are in a complete emotional turmoil, some have been suicidal, so have a heart and if you don't like what they say head off to another section of the forum

 

Now I'm closing this thread