AaronS Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 OK, so it's been a bit of a bur under my saddle so to speak...that's the $4500 a year I pay for each child to go to public school since we are on a 457 visa. Correct me if I'm way out of line here, but we pay all the same taxes and land rates (via rental fees) that everyone else does....which, in theory, covers the cost for public school. Why is it that we should have to pay another $9000 a year (for two kiddos) for schooling. It seems very out of whack to me....call me crazy....or call me logical. Thanks for listening. /endrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fashionably Late Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It is a silly system and only NSW and the ACT have this. That is a lot of money to pay for schooling just because your visa is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Because you aren't a permanent resident, basically. The ACT cost twice as much as NSW but will waive fees if the parental occupation is on SOL. I guess this is one of those caveat emptor issues - you have the choice not to move to NSW or ACT if school fees are an issue. I wonder how long it will be before other states start charging, some already charge for special Ed interventions over and above mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yea, I understand the rules of the visa, but the logic of it seems to be faulty. If I'm paying taxes or rates that are going to schools then I shouldn't have to pay additional fees regardless of the type of visa....again call me crazy. In the US we'd called that a "money grab" by the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thombatt Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The taxes you pay do not cover the cost of sending your children to school. While you are on a temporary visa it is expected that you will leave Australia when your visa expires. The Australian government is not prepared to invest in a child's education who will be leaving the country before Australian society reaps the benefits of its investment. That's the theory behind the system. You knew what the system was before you came, you knew what the financial situation was before you came, or you should of. I think it's rich complaining about it when you're here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpot Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The taxes you pay do not cover the cost of sending your children to school. While you are on a temporary visa it is expected that you will leave Australia when your visa expires. The Australian government is not prepared to invest in a child's education who will be leaving the country before Australian society reaps the benefits of its investment. If that's the case, then your tax should be reduced by the proportion that goes on education (or by some amount), shouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If that's the case, then your tax should be reduced by the proportion that goes on education (or by some amount), shouldn't it? No, because if that's the case (and it's a big if) then none of your tax goes on education. Education in this case is paid for by the extra taxes the child pays when he/she grows up as a result of getting a higher paid job because of his/her education. Now you may be thinking "well if I'm not paying for my child aren't I paying extra tax for my own education" well that's where the clever bit (from NSW & ACT perspective) comes in. You've been allowed in to Aus because of the education you've already got so while you're paying more tax than an unskilled worker, you're not paying any extra tax because you wouldn't have been allowed in without your education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinner Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The taxes you pay do not cover the cost of sending your children to school. While you are on a temporary visa it is expected that you will leave Australia when your visa expires. The Australian government is not prepared to invest in a child's education who will be leaving the country before Australian society reaps the benefits of its investment. That's the theory behind the system. You knew what the system was before you came, you knew what the financial situation was before you came, or you should of. I think it's rich complaining about it when you're here. Can understand why the government is not prepared to invest if they are leaving, but not everyone has had time to look into these extra costs before they come. I don't have kids but will be hopefully having them in the future. Have far too much on my plate looking at possible costs of kids I might not have. Bit harsh saying you shouldn't complain about an extra cost which you didn't budget for. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't have know about extra costs for different visas. Cheers to all who post decent info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 The taxes you pay do not cover the cost of sending your children to school. While you are on a temporary visa it is expected that you will leave Australia when your visa expires. The Australian government is not prepared to invest in a child's education who will be leaving the country before Australian society reaps the benefits of its investment. That's the theory behind the system. You knew what the system was before you came, you knew what the financial situation was before you came, or you should of. I think it's rich complaining about it when you're here. Sounds like you are blinded by the system my friend. Tell me then what my taxes DO pay for. We knew the fees and we can easily cover them, it's just a money grab because we ARE paying the same taxes as PR or citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 No, because if that's the case (and it's a big if) then none of your tax goes on education. Education in this case is paid for by the extra taxes the child pays when he/she grows up as a result of getting a higher paid job because of his/her education. Now you may be thinking "well if I'm not paying for my child aren't I paying extra tax for my own education" well that's where the clever bit (from NSW & ACT perspective) comes in. You've been allowed in to Aus because of the education you've already got so while you're paying more tax than an unskilled worker, you're not paying any extra tax because you wouldn't have been allowed in without your education. Again, then what are my taxes paying for? Your statement about extra taxes a child pays in the future being for their education now is rubbish, btw. Taxes being paid now pay for their education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I get where you are coming from. We are treated as being fully (tax) paid up members in one way, but not in another. However, we knew about the situation when we applied for the visa, and are resigned to the fact that until we are PR, this is how things are. This is an interesting little calculator to show where the money is spent. http://www.wheredomytaxesgo.com.au/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACDONALDO67 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The taxes you pay do not cover the cost of sending your children to school. While you are on a temporary visa it is expected that you will leave Australia when your visa expires. The Australian government is not prepared to invest in a child's education who will be leaving the country before Australian society reaps the benefits of its investment. That's the theory behind the system. You knew what the system was before you came, you knew what the financial situation was before you came, or you should of. I think it's rich complaining about it when you're here. I might be getting a 457 visa for the Perth area. I'm hoping that I'm not expected to leave after 3 years. Please tell me this isn't standard? If this is the case how long would it take usually to get PR? If I get there I don't want to leave. Also, fees for 1 child for Perth and 1 teenager for college for the Perth area. Is it different to NSW, ACT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I might be getting a 457 visa for the Perth area. I'm hoping that I'm not expected to leave after 3 years. Please tell me this isn't standard? If this is the case how long would it take usually to get PR? If I get there I don't want to leave. Also, fees for 1 child for Perth and 1 teenager for college for the Perth area. Is it different to NSW, ACT? I don't think that Perth charges school fees, just ACT and NSW. I don't know about the college fees, but I would imagine that you would have to pay international rates. With regards to the 457, yes it is a temporary visa, and it is expected that you will leave after four years unless you qualify for and have applied for/been approved for a permanent visa. We have just applied for an 856, which is also employer sponsored, but is permanent. There is no direct or guaranteed pathway to permanence via the 457. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpot Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Useful link, thanks The other aspect to the fairness or otherwise of the charge is that it's not means tested in any way, but a flat fee. So it relatively hurts the most, those who are least able to pay it If you're on $250K a year (say $160K after tax), $4500 out of your taxed income is a minor irritant at 2.5% of your income per child. If you're on $80K a year (say $60K after tax), it's 7.5% which is a pretty whacking hit To add insult to injury, it's common for more senior staff - those who can afford to pay for this the most - to have the cost covered by their employers; mine is. If I was on half the money I am and had to pay out of my pocket, I'd be pretty p1ssed with it so I can understand where the OP is coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACDONALDO67 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't think that Perth charges school fees, just ACT and NSW. I don't know about the college fees, but I would imagine that you would have to pay international rates. With regards to the 457, yes it is a temporary visa, and it is expected that you will leave after four years unless you qualify for and have applied for/been approved for a permanent visa. We have just applied for an 856, which is also employer sponsored, but is permanent. There is no direct or guaranteed pathway to permanence via the 457. LKC thanks for that input. After 4 years of nothing and at the age off 44 I'd given up. Can't say much at the moment but I have an interview in March. Frightened/excited is an understatement. If I give up everything for a 457 to work and not get the PR before the end of it concerns me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Useful link, thanks The other aspect to the fairness or otherwise of the charge is that it's not means tested in any way, but a flat fee. So it relatively hurts the most, those who are least able to pay it If you're on $250K a year (say $160K after tax), $4500 out of your taxed income is a minor irritant at 2.5% of your income per child. If you're on $80K a year (say $60K after tax), it's 7.5% which is a pretty whacking hit To add insult to injury, it's common for more senior staff - those who can afford to pay for this the most - to have the cost covered by their employers; mine is. If I was on half the money I am and had to pay out of my pocket, I'd be pretty p1ssed with it so I can understand where the OP is coming from Oh is on $65K per year, and I run a business from home which doesn't provide an income as of yet, so it is a fairly huge whack of our income. However, we knew about it before we came, and we saved enough to one side to cover the fees for a couple of years. Desperately hoping that PR comes before our other daughter starts school next year, else I might have to sell a kidney or something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 LKC thanks for that input. After 4 years of nothing and at the age off 44 I'd given up. Can't say much at the moment but I have an interview in March. Frightened/excited is an understatement. If I give up everything for a 457 to work and not get the PR before the end of it concerns me. We had it written in to oh's contract that they would sponsor us for PR. We waited two years+ (actually three years) so that he didn't have to bother with the TRA, but you could always apply sooner if your job is on the ENS, which is a fairly big list. I think if I were you I would ask if sponsorship for PR could be written in to the contract. We moved over with two children, so I wanted it to be secure and not just a temporary thing. At the time we moved, OH's job was on the SOL, and actually I am kicking myself that we just didn't apply for that independently, because we would be PR by now. His job has since been removed from that list, so it is all a bit more precarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think that the education department will waive the fees if you are struggling to pay (for example for multiple children), so they can be pretty fair about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACDONALDO67 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We had it written in to oh's contract that they would sponsor us for PR. We waited two years+ (actually three years) so that he didn't have to bother with the TRA, but you could always apply sooner if your job is on the ENS, which is a fairly big list. I think if I were you I would ask if sponsorship for PR could be written in to the contract. We moved over with two children, so I wanted it to be secure and not just a temporary thing. At the time we moved, OH's job was on the SOL, and actually I am kicking myself that we just didn't apply for that independently, because we would be PR by now. His job has since been removed from that list, so it is all a bit more precarious! So glad I read this thread because I now have another question for the interview. Would you say it would be better to get the Sponsorship for PR written in and apply independently or just apply independently from the start. The job I am going for I have to sign a "retainer" and I get a bonus after 3 years if I stay with the company. I wouldn't even be thinking of going anywhere else if I get into this company but what I don't want to have is nothing at the end. I want to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 We were prepared to pay it as well, no problem there. It's just a blatant slap in the face from the government though. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 So glad I read this thread because I now have another question for the interview. Would you say it would be better to get the Sponsorship for PR written in and apply independently or just apply independently from the start. The job I am going for I have to sign a "retainer" and I get a bonus after 3 years if I stay with the company. I wouldn't even be thinking of going anywhere else if I get into this company but what I don't want to have is nothing at the end. I want to stay. Ask them to sponsor you for PR up front....I believe it's a 121. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowPerth Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We moved to WA on a 457 and don't have to pay for state schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So glad I read this thread because I now have another question for the interview. Would you say it would be better to get the Sponsorship for PR written in and apply independently or just apply independently from the start. The job I am going for I have to sign a "retainer" and I get a bonus after 3 years if I stay with the company. I wouldn't even be thinking of going anywhere else if I get into this company but what I don't want to have is nothing at the end. I want to stay. It would depend on your situation. I think you said that you are in your 40's, in which case I would probably suggest getting a wriggle on with the PR before it is no longer an option. I would be tempted to ask if they will either sponsor you on the 856 immediately after you have started working, or alternatively, rather than the 457, maybe ask if they will sponsor you for the 121 instead. You would have to wait longer to arrive in Aus, which may put the employer off a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We were prepared to pay it as well, no problem there. It's just a blatant slap in the face from the government though. Oh well. I know. The way I look at tax, is if they don't get you one way they will get you another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 LKC is correct. My wife's employer wanted her here quick so we came on the 457 (got it in a week) and they will sponsor us on a 856 in 3 years (moot point since we've decided to go back though). With you coming up on 45 I'd highly suggest asking for the 121....so the window doesn't close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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