Support for Aboriginies

[Lambethlad]

Yesterday's protest is justified, just by drawing attention to their cause. I have spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory and witnessed appalling deprivation that makes me ashamed of our Government. The Government spends a pittance on trying to improve the lives of native Australians while giving billions of dollars in foreign aid to corrupt regimes such as Indonesia who deny human rights and even allow sharia law in some provinces. To them we are just foolish infidel dogs. I say stop all foreign aid and start fixing our own problems.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I use to agree with you 100%, however, after visiting the aboriginal camp in Cairns I was disgusted at the way they lived, they have the most beautiful part of the Cairns coastline, yet it is full of graffiti (the only graffiti may I add around Cairns) rubbish, every single window is smashed, their garage and shops have bars on the windows, doors are boarded up, there is beer cans/bottles all over the street, glass everywhere. The government have given that camp everything, they have their own schools (2 of them) nursery, council offices, sports hall, police station, etc yet it has all been destroyed, now I am sorry but you cannot blame the white people for that.

 

Now there is no way I am saying all aboriginals are the same, I was in a ward recently with 2 aboriginal women and they were lovely, the most nicest, caring people you could ever meet.

[heyyu]

billions have already been spent on aboriginal housing and health and the government is planning to spend more,it is not an easy problem to fix,many politicians will run a mile from the aboriginal and islander port folio

[Guest Sir Les Patterson]

Yesterday's protest is justified, just by drawing attention to their cause. I have spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory and witnessed appalling deprivation that makes me ashamed of our Government. The Government spends a pittance on trying to improve the lives of native Australians while giving billions of dollars in foreign aid to corrupt regimes such as Indonesia who deny human rights and even allow sharia law in some provinces. To them we are just foolish infidel dogs. I say stop all foreign aid and start fixing our own problems.

 

Lambethlad........what parallel Universe do you live in.........

[tisme]

Yesterday's protest is justified, just by drawing attention to their cause. I have spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory and witnessed appalling deprivation that makes me ashamed of our Government. The Government spends a pittance on trying to improve the lives of native Australians while giving billions of dollars in foreign aid to corrupt regimes such as Indonesia who deny human rights and even allow sharia law in some provinces. To them we are just foolish infidel dogs. I say stop all foreign aid and start fixing our own problems.

 

The protest was totally out of order, no one, no matter the nationality has the right to do what was done to the PM of Australia and the others in the room. Must of been terryifying for everyone to have 200 protesters banging on the windows. Personally I can't stand her either but no one deserved that.

 

Aboriginal Elders associated with the 'Tent City' were also appalled at the behaviour.

[Guest Guest 47403]

Sometimes people just don't want to fit in with what we see as a normal way of life, lots of money has been spent on the indigenous population. Pouring millions of dollars into there problems probably isn't really going to ease there issues, often a little self help would go a long way.

[Guest Guest16631]

..............and there is always two sides to a coin.........Just as we hear little about the migrants who settle successfully..........we do not hear about the indigenous people who have integrated into a foreign ( to them) way of life...............as always the rougue few .............influence the perception of the majority...................there are some reports to support the claim that much of the housing offered to the indigenous people is substandard..........."Of the 4,343 houses surveyed in 132 communities, only 11 per cent passed national standard safety. In 50% of houses, there was no tub or bath to wash a child in, and only 35 per cent of houses had a functioning shower."

 

Architect Paul Pholeros confirms this view. According to his experience, 60% of housing problems arise from poor maintenance, 25% from poor initial construction and only 8% from damage and abuse by its tenants ................this is taken from a report taken 4 years ago.......................but little has changed for those in remote areas...............................sometimes the information made available to the general public ........is often selective.............ime

[Quoll]

Sometimes people just don't want to fit in with what we see as a normal way of life, lots of money has been spent on the indigenous population. Pouring millions of dollars into there problems probably isn't really going to ease there issues, often a little self help would go a long way.

 

There is a huge aboriginal industry which has sucked at the tax payer teat for aeons with very little to show for the poor devils stuck up in shanties in the NT - there are however some very wealthy slightly dark (one isnt allowed in Australia to comment on a person's aboriginality if they say they are indigenous, even though they are blue eyed blondes with degrees - the law worked that one out last year) urban ones who have done very nicely thank you.

 

Noel Pearson is the chap who speaks most sense on aboriginal issues IMHO

 

The local elders dont like the Tent Embassy on their land either - the TE are professional protesting blow ins from all over and the Ngunnawal elders arent that happy about it but they will stick together in the face of whitey no matter what.

[Guest Sir Les Patterson]

Noel Pearson is the chap who speaks most sense on aboriginal issues IMHO

 

If you knew him your opinion might be different

[Eera]

I've recently completed a job in three remote communities in NT doing the groundwork for new houses because the ones that were put in place 5 years ago were trashed to the point they were uninhabitable - not one or two but every single one in all three communities. Would it have made any difference if they were block instead of weatherboard? Not judging by another community I had to deal with a few years ago in QLD where the buildings had been burned out and rammed with Landcruisers.

 

I know plenty of indiginous people who operate backhoes, do the cultural heritage surveys on mine tenures, pipelines and railway corridors, one guy I know operates a drill barge, and man, can that dude fish. The common factor I see there that I don't see in those communities is employment. Make a person work for their living and they have self respect and pride in what they've achieved. Give them sit-down money, a free car, a house and nothing to do and the results aren't pretty.

 

Unfortunately it's not simple to deal with. I used to be very much of the opinion that the black fellas had every opportunity that the white fellas do and therefore should get off their bums, but then having spent time volunteering in an aborigional drop-in centre my aunt founded and seeing the way that cultural heritage clearance is an exercise in asking the ancestors for permission, not picking up chips of flint, I began to appreciate that there is such a tie for these people to their patch of land that they simply cannot up sticks.

 

Have I got a solution? No. There was, however a piece on Landline a couple of years ago about a lady who has formed communal bush tucker gardens which the locals tend and can eat as much as they want to, but also get paid to harvest a few times a year. the lady sold the product under Bush Garden, or something (you can buy it in the spice section of Woollies - herbs and spices), and she was trying to expand the initiative.

 

Maybe some awareness needs to be raised about these little enterprises that help the indiginous people help themselves

[Skani]

 

 

Yesterday's protest is justified, just by drawing attention to their cause

 

Well, Aboriginal leaders don't agree with you - a number of them condemned yesterday's protest including one, Warren Mundine, who said

"When the Tent Embassy was set up in 1972 it met the aspirations of Aboriginal people at the time. But quite frankly it is irrelevant to the mainstream of Aboriginal people today and it has been for the last 20 years....(it) had been hijacked by a very motley crew intent on tagging their own social concerns with the Aboriginal cause. We've actually moved on from those days,''

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skani]

Maybe some awareness needs to be raised about these little enterprises that help the indiginous people help themselves

 

Forestry Tasmania has a project helping to develop a sustainable forestry industry in Arnhem Land communities - from harvesting and milling timber to house construction and furniture making.

[thewebweazel]

I use to agree with you 100%, however, after visiting the aboriginal camp in Cairns I was disgusted at the way they lived, they have the most beautiful part of the Cairns coastline, yet it is full of graffiti (the only graffiti may I add around Cairns) rubbish, every single window is smashed, their garage and shops have bars on the windows, doors are boarded up, there is beer cans/bottles all over the street, glass everywhere. The government have given that camp everything, they have their own schools (2 of them) nursery, council offices, sports hall, police station, etc yet it has all been destroyed, now I am sorry but you cannot blame the white people for that.

 

Now there is no way I am saying all aboriginals are the same, I was in a ward recently with 2 aboriginal women and they were lovely, the most nicest, caring people you could ever meet.

 

I would whole heartedly agree with you if these people were "White Europeans". The problem is that the Indigenous Australians have a different value system to "us". The concept of individual ownership is still relatively new to their culture. We build all this infrastructure expecting them to be grateful (I would if it were for me) and then get upset when they trash it, but our expectations are unreasonable. We cannot expect then to change from being Hunter Gathers to Modern Westernised man in less then 200 years when it took us thousands of years.

 

The problem is that although the Government has created Protected areas for them to live, and they cannot live there oblivious to rest of the world. The allure of western society attracts them but somehow it is difficult for them to fit in and still retain their Identity. So they land up living in "camps" dependent on government handouts. Many are now gripped by alcoholism, boredom, depression, and illnesses which I suspect leads to antisocial behaviour.

 

What is the solution? I don't know, but I suspect that it is not possible that their way of life will survive and they will eventually be absorbed in to the western world!

[Guest Bleeding Thorn13]

..............and there is always two sides to a coin.........Just as we hear little about the migrants who settle successfully..........we do not hear about the indigenous people who have integrated into a foreign ( to them) way of life...............as always the rougue few .............influence the perception of the majority...................there are some reports to support the claim that much of the housing offered to the indigenous people is substandard..........."Of the 4,343 houses surveyed in 132 communities, only 11 per cent passed national standard safety. In 50% of houses, there was no tub or bath to wash a child in, and only 35 per cent of houses had a functioning shower."

 

Architect Paul Pholeros confirms this view. According to his experience, 60% of housing problems arise from poor maintenance, 25% from poor initial construction and only 8% from damage and abuse by its tenants ................this is taken from a report taken 4 years ago.......................but little has changed for those in remote areas...............................sometimes the information made available to the general public ........is often selective.............ime

 

Good post tink...

 

This post is not in anyway intended to offend, & I do respect everone's points of view...

 

When I saw this story making the news, I had to clap the media for doing what it always does, take a story & their selected footage, dissect it into their edited snippets & then relay it around the world to achieve the very response which they got…

As you mentioned Tink, there are two sides to every story but the media doesn’t show it, & in the news coverage of this event that is being broadcast around the world I feel is highly biased.

 

The media are happy to show a group of people standing outside a restaurant chanting & banging on the glass, causing an inappropriate disruption to the celebration inside, then you see the prime minister Julia Gillard being dragged by a security officer & surrounded by police shoved into her vehicle, whilst that footage is all very dramatic you don’t see any one anywhere near her, you do see one or two people attempting to get to her but they are just as violently forced back by police & security once again dramatic footage for the medias best interest.

What the media doesn’t show is how this event all started in the first place. I've been listening to an interview with one of the Tribal Elders from the Tent Embassy, who said that a delegation peacefully approached Tony Abbott’s representatives & asked if he would be prepared to come out & answer their questions, whilst that took place, another separate group of protesters many of whom were white saw the opportunity to cause trouble & it was those who started the commotion, yes sometimes there is a radical militant minority group that will be more vocal & disruptive, even violent which does reflect towards the peaceful protesters on a whole, & usually has repercussions on the initial cause.

In the interview with the elder from the Tent Embassy he was asked should he apologize, he said no as his people were not the ones being violent, he also made valid points as to the media not showing other terrible things in this highly edited footage, for instance a Policeman punching an indigenous woman full in the face, of course no charges are brought against him for a direct violent attack.

 

It is recognized under International Law & Declaration of Human Rights & many other International Conventions that everyone including the Indigenous people of Australia take a stance & fight for their rights, in this case the other element to this story which hasn’t been brought to everyone’s attention is that there was a celebration by the Elders of the Tent Embassy to celebrate 40 years of Sovereignty which also wasn’t mentioned by the media.

PROTESTING

 

Our rights to protest, demonstrate and take part in political activities are recognised by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) as well as many international human rights conventions and covenants.

A right to freedom of peaceful assembly is part of international law under the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights 1948 (Article 20) and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights 1966 (ICCPR) (Article 21). The right to engage in participatory democracy "without unreasonable restrictions" is clearly acknowledged by the ICCPR (Article 25).

Although it is difficult to assert these rights in Australia, because most of the rights have not been incorporated into Australian domestic law, you do have legal rights when protesting.

What ridiculous planning on the part of the politicians to schedule their awards event near another event that was already being advertised, any agitators could’ve seen the invitation turn up & cause trouble as seems to be the way with all protestors around the world now, violence from these militant agitators detracts from peaceful protests the world over.

 

However people are so willing to believe that all aboriginals are a primal violent mob, just waiting to turn. Politicians often engineer opportunities to drop their little sound bites into news bulletins, Tony Abbott & his team would’ve been well aware of what was taking place & there was likely to be some controversy. Telling people “we’ve said sorry, it’s now time to move on”, it’s no longer relevant, get over it”, would be highly insulting & inflammatory to the indigenous population.

The aboriginal culture is the oldest on the planet, but sadly it’s terribly inconvenient to modern day industrial society. In this day & age would any country get away with what colonists did to the aborigines? Besides taking away their land, we tried to eradicate their entire race, their children were being stolen in living memory there’s a lot of mentions about blue eyed aboriginals don’t you realize this came about form rape& abuse of aboriginal women, when our governments wanted to breed out the aboriginal race from existence. How would we feel if that very same process happened to us? I sure as hell know we wouldn't take it lying down?

It’s not some distant historical horror & even today their life expectancy is 25 years less than ours, if this was going on in some other country there would be total up roar over it.

 

Migrants come here still with this attitude that this is still part of their country which they own, they expect it to be little England in the sun, & if you think Tony Abbott has any respect for the indigenous population of this country your very wrong, yes there are some severe social problems within some of the aboriginal communities, as it is in other communities no matter what cultural background, but who are the ones who introduced the alcohol & drugs in the first place & continues to supply it knowing what effect it has. The same thing happened to the Native Americans but I don’t know enough about their history to compare.

 

I also agree with Webweazle your trying to box aboriginal people into a westernize mentality, how could anyone possibly not want to live they way we do, we find their culture & other indigenous cultures fascinating as long as it’s in a museum & not in the way of our economic development.

This is a complex topic, like many people I don’t have all the answers, but when politicians speak on our behalf that everyone respects aboriginal people, I absolutely know that not to be true. We could learn so much from aboriginals if we stopped thinking they were a backward mob of degenerates, yes there are social problems but there are groups within white society that also vandalize neighborhoods & take drugs & alcohol & have other social behavioral problems too.

 

It’s in the interest of politicians to cause division amongst people & the media always hype it up by exaggerating a derogatory image of lower class people, they keep everyone outraged while keeping themselves in power.

 

 

http://www.aboriginaltentembassy.net/

[Guest Sir Les Patterson]

gee I just love these overseas "experts"

[Skani]

Just a few comments.

 

I've been listening to an interview with one of the Tribal Elders from the Tent Embassy, ...

PROTESTING

 

Our rights to protest, demonstrate and take part in political activities are recognised by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) as well as many international human rights conventions and covenants.

 

It’s not some distant historical horror & even today their life expectancy is 25 years less than ours, if this was going on in some other country there would be total up roar over it.

 

 

That should be "self styled Tribal Elders". The tent embassy is erected on the tribal land of the Ngunnawal people...who happen to dislike it being there and want it removed. In fact, in the past, the REAL local tribal elders have wrecked the tent embassy completely, including setting fire to it. The self styled "Tribal Elder" would be like David Cameron going to Germany and saying "I'm top dog here". I think Angela Merkel would have something to say about that - and she would be right.

 

No one disputes their rights to protest. They have been allowed to protest there for 40 years...(unlike the white "Occupy "protesters whose camp was destroyed after just 7 days and were charged)...even though the national Aboriginal leaders state that it had served its purpose 20 years ago, should have been closed then and is now just a focus for a "motley crew" of troublemakers. (Their words, not mine).

Tony Abbott said nothing that their own national Aboriginal leaders haven't been saying for years.

 

It's all too easy to arrive in this country, to utter shock and horror and say this would not be allowed to happen in any other country. First study the projects, the schemes, the initiatives, the BILLIONS of dollars which have been poured into this area...then provide a solution to fix it. The whole country would be very grateful.

[Guest Guest16631]

........what many of us forget is that Australia has a black history........and the arrival of the white

Man devastated their way of life............we have tried to force our values and lifestyle on a people who lived in harmony with their land............we brought disease and a way of life totally alien to them and expect them to accept this and be grateful.............they should integrate into........our world adopt our values..............they are on the whole a peaceful people........but as usual a few have taken advantage and used .....a cause ......to create trouble........and although it has brought the situation into the limelight.........it has also incited anger and fear...............what is the solution ?....I don't know..........but as history shows.............if something isn't done to help preserve their culture and way of life............it will disappear forever.......................

[Que Sera Sera]

I am new to this country and I know very little as yet of the Aboriginals or of their story, I am learning little bits slowely, I do however know about protesting, Ive done a fair bit in my life time having worked for a Trade Union for 20 odd years. Now that was a protest just that. Is was NOT violent and NO ONE got hurt, Ive seen far far worse beleive you me, about far less important things. This was media hype gone mad, they protested it was heard, job done. Can you imagine Maggie Thatcher getting out of the Poll Tax protests alive with only 6 or 7 police? Hopefully now its all over the media the Government will listen and something good will come out of it........or not :eek:

[Skani]

...we brought disease and a way of life totally alien to them and expect them to accept this and be grateful.............they should integrate into........our world adopt our values.................

 

I think this points to one of the major difficulties...there is not one "aboriginal" lifestyle but many.

Some do want to remain in their tribal areas a long way from urban centres and live their traditional lifestyle.

Others don't - they want varying degrees of involvement with western white culture from living a part traditional life to complete integration into white urban society. So, just as there were hundreds of separate tribes in pre European settlement times, there are now many different categories of aboriginal society....and a multitude of different problems.

 

Add to that the fact that "aboriginal" can be anyone from 100% aboriginal ancestry to one sixteenth aboriginal and 15 sixteenths English ancestry but choosing to identify as aboriginal...and there you have another spectrum of problems to cover.

[Guest sudzy]

Sometimes people just don't want to fit in with what we see as a normal way of life, lots of money has been spent on the indigenous population. Pouring millions of dollars into there problems probably isn't really going to ease there issues, often a little self help would go a long way.

 

 

Well obviously the issues are not being addressed in a very constructive way. What ever they spend that money on is a total waste if it does nothing to help the Aboriginal people. They come up with ridiculous schemes like punishing parents of children who don't attend school instead of coming up with a way to make education accessable to them.

 

They have been marginalised for so long that of course there are going to be run down areas with grafitti etc.

 

And you could argue that the likes of Mundine are pretty happy with their incomes and don't want those who don't have such advantages in life, to ruin it for them. Politicians are politicians no matter what their ethnic background.

[tisme]

Well obviously the issues are not being addressed in a very constructive way. What ever they spend that money on is a total waste if it does nothing to help the Aboriginal people. They come up with ridiculous schemes like punishing parents of children who don't attend school instead of coming up with a way to make education accessable to them.

 

They have been marginalised for so long that of course there are going to be run down areas with grafitti etc.

 

And you could argue that the likes of Mundine are pretty happy with their incomes and don't want those who don't have such advantages in life, to ruin it for them. Politicians are politicians no matter what their ethnic background.

 

It's quite the opposite, the parents of our Indigenous children get extra payments if their children attend school for so many days a week, not sure how many days, but it isn't a full week. In communities where there is a more concentration of Aboriginal children, everything is supplied at school, all stationary, toothbrush and paste, breakfast, and the list goes on.

[Guest sudzy]

It's quite the opposite, the parents of our Indigenous children get extra payments if their children attend school for so many days a week, not sure how many days, but it isn't a full week. In communities where there is a more concentration of Aboriginal children, everything is supplied at school, all stationary, toothbrush and paste, breakfast, and the list goes on.

 

That's ony right!

 

There was debate recently about binging in what I mentioned, sorry I wasn't clear in my post.

[Skani]

They come up with ridiculous schemes like punishing parents of children who don't attend school instead of coming up with a way to make education accessable to them.

 

 

When they have a school operating within their community (within a few minutes walk) just how could it be made more accessible?

They don't exactly have to bus across a city.

[Guest sudzy]

When they have a school operating within their community (within a few minutes walk) just how could it be made more accessible?

They don't exactly have to bus across a city.

 

I didn't mean physically accessable... :rolleyes:

[Skani]

I didn't mean physically accessable... :rolleyes:

 

Accessible in which other way?