Support for Aboriginies

[Skani]

There are some saying how they've worked to help these disadvantaged Aboriginal people, but do you have any that you socialise with & are proud to call your friend like I do.

 

 

Well, of course. They are just friends, like any of my other friends. Their ancestry is of no issue whatsoever. I don't even think about it. (Just had to do a head count of who is and who isn't).

 

the difference is it's really patronising to Aboriginals to be thought of as either a social problem or a quaint relic of the past.

 

 

There are many Australians with social problems - some of white ancestry, some of black ancestry. But no one is saying you are a social problem just because you are Aboriginal.

 

so it's relevant that one image on a poster maybe taken from 1906 & the other from 2012 because one situation relates to the historical journey that has brought us to this point in time.

 

It's not relevant to claim that Australians in January 2012 are more disgusted by the 2012 image than the 1906 one. It's actually a lie. Just as the previous practice of chaining inmates in mental health institutions would be considered abhorrent today - more abhorrent than burning a flag.

 

A person becomes a 16th Aboriginal from a back ground of rape of ones ancestors,

 

Not in the genealogies I know about...unless the woman was forcibly married against her will.

 

It's sounds like there are some who resent the fact that Indigenous people get these benefits,

 

I use these examples to counter the attitude that all Aboriginals are disadvantaged compared to all white Australians and that Australian governments do nothing and have never done anything to try and remedy the problems.

 

There has never been a politician who genuinely wanted to make a long lasting change,

 

I believe there have been politicians who sincerely and genuinely wanted change - there still are. But the problems have been so complex and the solutions not as simple as people assume.

 

 

but lets not forget that their not recognised in the constitution & still have a substantially lower life expectancy.

 

I'm a bit sceptical that being recognised in the constitution - separately from other Australians - will bring any benefits apart from making the whites feel better. It won't make any difference to the citizenship status they have.

 

And the substantially lower life expectancy is not all the fault of white neglect. There is a very complex issue of transferring from a hunter gatherer diet to a modern Western diet over a few decades. My sister worked as a paediatric nurse in Aboriginal communities in South Australia and often the treatment they gave to black children was different to that for white children as their metabolism worked differently. Goodness knows, we have enough health issues in Western countries due to societal changes over the last 50 years. Trying to bridge 40,000 years in a century is an enormous challenge.

 

Education is definitely the way forward, I have condemned the media for it's sensationalism, & I understand this situation is a very complex topic, but I think it's especially important to high light it for migrants, it's all very well to acknowledge the support that is offered to the indigenous people, but it's not as Black & White as some people think there are so many grey areas about this subject,

 

Agree totally!:wubclub:

 

Well, I like your style Mr. Thorn. I've enjoyed debating with you. I'm sure you and Rose have many interesting conversations. You'll be pleased to know that the temperature has just dropped from 28 to 18 deg - MY sort of temperature :biggrin: - I will stop feeling so cantankerous and go and do all those unpleasant chores I have avoided by spending time on here.

And when I've had my Previous Life Review session I will let you know if I was one of those beastly white colonial masters in a past life and you can deal with me accordingly.:notworthy:

[flag of convenience]

billions have already been spent on aboriginal housing and health and the government is planning to spend more,it is not an easy problem to fix,many politicians will run a mile from the aboriginal and islander port folio

 

Money alone will not solve such entrenched issues. When one considers the gross amount of dollars spent to date and the poor returns by and large with very limited results , then clearly government policies have been short term,band aid attempts at keeping the appearance up of things been done.

 

As the whole industry that built up around it became a gravy train as well as corrupt in places as long as the appearance that something was being done little else in further initives seemed to have been attempted when taking away a lot of hot air.

 

Recall reading where it was suggestered that International Aid Organizations replace Federal Government in seeking solutions, which was said by an Aboriginal spokesman decades ago.

[Harpodom]

From my reading of Australian history I seem to recall inter tribal conflict as being much a norm so not sure just how peaceful it was in the past. Perhaps large aspects of the culture has already been lost along with way of life? Although certain traditions prevail. Already a lot of former lifestyle has disappeared likely forever.

 

One aspect with regards to this whole subject that I do note is that no one has an idea and that includes govenrment into any possible solutions.

Anyone that has spent time in The NT be it Alice Springs, Darwin, Katherine or smaller remote places may easily come to a conclusion that a solution will not be forth coming anytime soon nor short term but hopefully sometime for future generations.

 

I don't think there is a solution TBH. The situation is an unholy mess. I've worked up in Cairns and the reality (rape, STDs, tropical diseases, severe head injuries from drunken bashings, alcoholism, diabetes, cirrhosis, premature death) of the indiginous 'problem' is not one that sits well with western norms.

[Skani]

None of them hold any animosity towards anyone for what happened in the past, they have moved forward.

 

 

And some have said in interviews that they were glad they were taken - they went into loving, supportive environments and had good experiences which they would not have had in their original home.

So even the emotive topic of "stolen children" is not a black or white situation.

[tisme]

And some have said in interviews that they were glad they were taken - they went into loving, supportive environments and had good experiences which they would not have had in their original home.

So even the emotive topic of "stolen children" is not a black or white situation.

 

Very true.

[Petals]

I was going to leave this thread alone but my two penneth is this. Just treat everyone the same in Australia, do not separate us by difference. Aboriginal people are just people like anyone else, some are good and some are bad. They do get special help and therefore anyone with a half of teaspoon of blood wants to be one, just like the Moaris in NZ. I personally think its making them different and making them feel different and not encouraging them to take the opportunities.

 

Only way forward is education, money is not the answer.

 

My mum and dad fostered a half aboriginal baby many years ago and they wanted to keep her but they were not allowed to because they were white and the child had to go to aboriginal people. This is a very sad situation when a child is looked after for quite a while from being born and then uprooted to go somewhere else. We can adopt children of all nationalities but not aboriginal ones, what is that all about.

[Johndoe]

Although certain traditions prevail.

 

Yes..............traditional hunting where they are exempt Fisheries (white man's) rulings and can hunt the "traditional" prey that the "whitey" isn't allowed to.

 

Already a lot of former lifestyle has disappeared likely forever.

 

Yes, again. They now hunt their "traditional" prey such as dugong and croc, in 20ft tinnies powered by 75 horse yamahas.

 

It is these inequites that feed racism. I personally, find it hypocritical, confrontational even, that they claim "traditional rights" only when it suits their purpose and are quite happy to adopt the white man's culture when it suits their purpose.

[Johndoe]

And some have said in interviews that they were glad they were taken - they went into loving, supportive environments and had good experiences which they would not have had in their original home.

So even the emotive topic of "stolen children" is not a black or white situation.

 

It is only very recently after a high profile death of one child, and horrofic injuries of sibling (whom I fostered) that Peter beatty completely "lost his rag" (justifiably so) in a televised interview, where he said something akin to, (my words) "I don't give a flyin' feck with regards to care in extended family(ies) and cultural niceties, if an aboriginal child is at risk from the parents, then the first place to look in order to place that child, is in a place of proven safety, not in an extended family (who are not proven), purely because they are family and in order to satify cultural sensitivities"

 

That guy had some guts to stand up and say that out loud and risk the wrath of the indigenous community, that funilly enough, didn't eventuate. That statement and subsequent acting upon, was the greatest leap forward in indigenous child safety imho. Unfortunately, some of those at the coal face do not pursue his policy strongly enough and it isn't simply because of cultural niceties that they don't. They actually live in fear when they are told (by superiors) to place a child with a white family

[Skani]

to see why when to this day they are not even recognised in the Australian constitution.

 

I just want to clarify that they are recognised in the Constitution along with every other Australian citizen. But they are not expressly mentioned as a separate group. Some people see the change as a step backward - it will enshrine racism in the constitution. My cynical eye can foresee, down the track, lawyers making a mint out of it. Someone will challenge something and then there will be very expensive court cases trying to determine who is or is not Aboriginal under the Constitution.

 

Some people suggest that the desired end could be achieved much more efficiently with a Bill of Rights.