Support for Aboriginies

[Guest Gothic Rose]

That's nice Tisme that there are a few things to preserve indiginous culture on TV & In museums, however it's also quite tragic when you think about what that actually means. it's like hunting animals to extinction & saying but it's okay there is a stuffed dodo in the museum. I don't mean any offence to you at all but I really think it would be better if a way of life wasn't erradicated because it's inconvenient to the way modern society lives.

[Guest sudzy]

At the end of the day this IS a WHITE/BLACK problem. We have seen it so many times over years unfortunately.

 

Take a look at some of the indigenous people that have been lost in the mists of time. I don't care what anyone says, the situation in Australia is based on colour and that is (however unsavoury) a fact of life. Forget the 'allocation', 'land issues' the rhetoric about who is right and wrong, it boils down plain and simply to a 'different' colour skin.

 

I am not saying that there are wrongs on all sides, but as has been shown over aeons, someone 'different' (skin colour) can be made to feel unworthy no matter the clap trap about the more 'peripheral' issues.

 

Cheers Tony.

 

 

Well that's a bit simplistic. All down to skin colour?? I don't think so.

 

More to do with British colonisation... worldwide the same thing has happened wherever Britain has invaded and colonised. Just so happens that the locals were dark skinned! The issue is not skin colour, but history.

[tisme]

I don't mean any offence to you at all but I really think it would be better if a way of life wasn't erradicated because it's inconvenient to the way modern society lives.

 

We would all like to live in an 'Ideal' world but unfortunately the reality is it ins't.

 

There are Aboriginal 'dry' communities in some far off outback places of Australia that still do choose to live without all the conviences of the modern world and are supported by the government to do this.

[Guest AKA63029]

Well that's a bit simplistic. All down to skin colour?? I don't think so.

 

More to do with British colonisation... worldwide the same thing has happened wherever Britain has invaded and colonised. Just so happens that the locals were dark skinned! The issue is not skin colour, but history.

 

I agree, very simplistic, BUT.

 

Have a look at the countries England 'conquered', made 'civilised', 'developed' and 'colonised' then called 'their' own. Colour does seem to play an integral part. I'm not saying that is the ONLY reason, far from it, but the word 'superiority' does come to mind.

 

And if you had taken the time to read my other posts maybe your reply to me wouldn't have been so curt.

[Guest sudzy]

I agree, very simplistic, BUT.

 

Have a look at the countries England 'conquered', made 'civilised', 'developed' and 'colonised' then called 'their' own. Colour does seem to play an integral part. I'm not saying that is the ONLY reason, far from it, but the word 'superiority' does come to mind.

 

And if you had taken the time to read my other posts maybe your reply to me wouldn't have been so curt.

 

 

The skin colour is incidental.

[Ellie 2]

Why is it that when threads about Aboriginals appear we always have people who have been in the country for "5 minutes" speaking as if they know everything about a subject? This is not a discussion, it is a condemnation of Australia for what some perceive to be the total disregard of Aboriginal people and their culture, which is totally untrue.

[Guest sudzy]

Why is it that when threads about Aboriginals appear we always have people who have been in the country for "5 minutes" speaking as if they know everything about a subject? This is not a discussion, it is a condemnation of Australia for what some perceive to be the total disregard of Aboriginal people and their culture, which is totally untrue.

 

What difference does it make if a person has been in the country 5 minutes or 50 years?? Isn't it more down to a persons intellect, education and life experience when it comes to forming an opinion?

 

I think you will find a lot of Aboriginals will "condemn Australia", as you put it, and they've been here a helluva long time!!! ;-)

[Skani]

Isn't it strange how people can twist facts for a poster?

That picture was taken in 1906 - 106 years ago.

OF COURSE people would be "more discusted" by it than the burning of a flag if it were to happen today.

 

Just as we would be disgusted by the chaining of convicts which was a common practice.

Or sending 6 year olds down coal mines or into cotton factories

Or it being lawful to beat your wife as long as the piece of wood you used was no wider than 2 inches (or was it 4?).

Or being able to sell your wife at auction.

 

To quote: "What if your children were stolen?"

They were. Children as young as 9 were sent as convicts to Australia...so they not only lost their family, they also lost their country.

Between 1945 and 1970 the British government sent 170,000 children, some as young as 3, to overseas countries under the Child Migrant Scheme. They were told they were orphans. Their parents were told they had died or had been adopted in another country. So these children, too, not only lost their family, they lost their country.

7000 of them came to Australia and most of them are still alive.

 

The problem is not that people ignore or don't care about the horrendous things which happened in the past but how to make sure that everyone has access to living to their potential in the 21st century, regardless of their racial/ethnic background or the sufferings of their ancestors in the past.

And it's not that people haven't tried. Billions of dollars and hundreds of schemes have been invested in this.

The reality is that many of these schemes are working very successfully and have been for years - but it doesn't make attention grabbing TV. Much better a flag burning or confrontation to boost the viewer ratings.

[Guest sudzy]

To quote: "What if your children were stolen?"

They were. Children as young as 9 were sent as convicts to Australia...so they not only lost their family, they also lost their country.

Between 1945 and 1970 the British government sent 170,000 children, some as young as 3, to overseas countries under the Child Migrant Scheme. They were told they were orphans. Their parents were told they had died or had been adopted in another country. So these children, too, not only lost their family, they lost their country.

7000 of them came to Australia and most of them are still alive.

 

So you understand well what the British authorities were capable of. Then you should have a better understanding of Aboriginals and how they were treated since their country was invaded and colonised.

 

You should understand how their recent history has made them into a segregated disadvantaged social group.

[Skani]

That's nice Tisme that there are a few things to preserve indiginous culture on TV & In museums, however it's also quite tragic when you think about what that actually means. it's like hunting animals to extinction & saying but it's okay there is a stuffed dodo in the museum. I don't mean any offence to you at all but I really think it would be better if a way of life wasn't erradicated because it's inconvenient to the way modern society lives.

 

It's NOT being eradicated. Aboriginals who wish to live on their tribal lands with their tribal customs are fully supported to do so. And supplied with medical centres and schools teaching in their tribal language.

If an Aboriginal community wishes to remain "dry" so that alcohol is not used there, that is completely their call.

 

And the preservation goes way beyond "a few things". There are government funded Aboriginal Dance troops, Aboriginal Studies units at universities, special Aboriginal kindergartens even in places where there are no full blood aboriginals and you need have only one sixteenth ancestry to claim aboriginality, special media units since 1972 including over 100 Aboriginal radio stations, a huge Aboriginal art industry.

All these are dedicated to preserving aboriginal culture, history, languages.

 

Oh..and I should add...special Aboriginal genealogical groups so that their ancestry is written down and traced as far as possible.

[Guest Gothic Rose]

I agree with Tink, that this is more than a Colour issue it's cultural. The Aboriginal way of life & belief system is so far removed from westernised culture, Such vast difference does engender fear rather than respect. White man stormed around the world grabbing land & it's resources & oppressing & killing the native peoples of those lands. All in the name of base greed. However when these attrocities are committed by british colonialists it's heroic & an acheivement of our supposedly once great empire. However it was still genocide & Ethnocide. When other countries have committed attrocities against cultural groups their have been wars against those countries & we are again seen as heroic defending the oppressed from their persecutors. The double standards are incredible. If the Nazi's had won the war & invaded Britain, I wouldn't have been born as both sides of my family would've been wiped out for having the wrong blood & being aborrant to the Nazi regieme. My mothers maiden name was anglicised to an english approximation of that name. The only ones who remember the true name died under persecution in their own countries. This is what happens when a dominant power takes away your right to exist as per your culture. They take your land, your freedom & sometimes your life. The women are raped & children are forcibly removed from families.

 

The British colonialist tried to breed out The Aboriginal genes all together. It was just as barbaric as anything we've fought wars to prevent. In modern times there has been talk of ethnic cleansing in other countries & we support the wars & protests in those countries but when we look at the fall out of what we have done to the aborigines we think they should shut up, protest politely & maybe get a petition together.

 

Besides industrialisation, religion played a huge part in this process to. We expect the Aboriginals to be oh so grateful for our charity towards them. How dare they be ungrateful to us for "civilising " them after all they were " pagan savages" until we "saved" them. Was this actually help? imposing slavery, introducing disease, introducing alcholol & drugs & an alien way of life.

 

I think as human beings we are entitled to opinions on humanitarian issues in whatever country. This is not Australia bashing at all, it's addressing issues that are current & important & affecting peoples daily lives. If we can comment on news stories regarding the protests we should be able to discuss the issues behind those protests, I don't know much about Australian economics but I'm aware of how history contributes to the current situation. I think it should be ok to discuss these situations, just as it's ok for Australians to discuss the UK riots of last summer. If a migrant intends to be a productive member of their new country they should be aware of it's history & culture. Not just move there & winge about what products arn't available in the shops. As a human being I'm more concerned with humanitarian issues than sausages or the price of lemons. I may not know much about Australia but there is a lot more to learn about the place than which is the best BBq.

[Skani]

So you understand well what the British authorities were capable of. Then you should have a better understanding of Aboriginals and how they were treated since their country was invaded and colonised.

 

You should understand how their recent history has made them into a segregated disadvantaged social group.

 

Excuse me...in my professional life I have worked as a special Employment Counsellor for disadvantaged groups, including Aboriginals. I might have a "better understanding" than you know.

[Guest sudzy]

Excuse me...in my professional life I have worked as a special Employment Counsellor for disadvantaged groups, including Aboriginals. I might have a "better understanding" than you know.

 

Well 'scuse me, but that's not exactly obvious from your posts.... :unsure:

[Ellie 2]

What difference does it make if a person has been in the country 5 minutes or 50 years?? Isn't it more down to a persons intellect, education and life experience when it comes to forming an opinion?

 

I think you will find a lot of Aboriginals will "condemn Australia", as you put it, and they've been here a helluva long time!!! ;-)

 

It does seem to make a difference as all I have read is people stating things that happened 100 years ago, nothing about what is happening now. Skani has pointed this out. No mention of the things that have been tried and accomplished in the last 50 years or so. How many of you know and have entertained Aboriginal people in your homes? I have and had many lively discussions. Oh, and I must add that there is an extensive unit of work done in schools on Aboriginal history and culture - much more extensive than the unit on history from 1788 to 1900. As I stated in an earlier post, you will always find people, of any race/culture, who are dissatisfied with what is happening.

[Skani]

What difference does it make if a person has been in the country 5 minutes or 50 years?? Isn't it more down to a persons intellect, education and life experience when it comes to forming an opinion?

 

Well, you can form an opinion...but if that opinion is based on what you see in headline grabbing media and not on a lengthy study of all the issues, then it's not based on all the facts.

 

I think you will find a lot of Aboriginals will "condemn Australia", as you put it, and they've been here a helluva long time!!! ;-)

 

You will know about those who "condemn Australia" - they are the squeaky wheels. The ones you don't hear about are those who recognise that bad things were done in the past, that it is impossible for any of us to time-travel back and undo them, and who are fully occupied building strong communities and passing their traditions and heritage to their children. You don't hear about them because they don't fit a 4 second grab on the nightly TV news.

 

No one denies that many things were done in the past which should be condemned. But many people arrive in Australia and condemn it for not caring or not trying...and this reveals how little they really understand of Aboriginal issues. Many, many things have been tried - some have worked and are still working. Some haven't. The real problem is finding solutions which will work for the multitude of Aboriginal communities across Australia.

Crikey...even the national Aboriginal leaders can't agree on this. You can hear them say in public..."Oh.. that might work in Noel Pearson's community on Cape York but it won't work in ours". And then there are intra Aboriginal conflicts. The Aboriginal Land Council in Tasmania doesn't recognise descendants of some Tasmanian Aboriginal tribes as being true Aboriginals. Go figure!!!:arghh:

[Skani]

Oh, and I must add that there is an extensive unit of work done in schools on Aboriginal history and culture - much more extensive than the unit on history from 1788 to 1900.

 

Yes, that is a really important point. When I went to school (in the olden days!) we learnt British, American, Canadian, Russian history...and Australian explorers. Now they start Aboriginal studies in early primary school.

[Guest sudzy]

Well, you can form an opinion...but if that opinion is based on what you see in headline grabbing media and not on a lengthy study of all the issues, then it's not based on all the facts.

 

Are you implying that is how I form my opinions???? That is some assumption!

 

Anyway, how is it such a mystery to some people that there are social problems amongst the indiginous communities. And you don't have to go back a few hundred years to see why when to this day they are not even recognised in the Australian constitution.

[Skani]

You should understand how their recent history has made them into a segregated disadvantaged social group.

 

"They" are not a segregated disadvantaged social group.

 

Some have CHOSEN segregation - because they want to stay on their tribal lands using tribal customs.

Many, many are living normal Australian lives in normal Australian communities.

Many are living ditto...with special advantages...eg. with a much lower mortgage rate (2%) than other Australians, with special educational allowances not given to other Australians, with special access to land (including within cities) where other Australians are not allowed.

 

Some are disadvantaged, living in a very uncomfortable place between their traditional lifestyle and a Westernised 21st century society. The reasons for this are many and complex. These are the ones you will see in the media as the "Aboriginal problem".

[Skani]

Are you implying that is how I form my opinions???? That is some assumption!

Anyway, how is it such a mystery to some people that there are social problems amongst the indiginous communities. And you don't have to go back a few hundred years to see why when to this day they are not even recognised in the Australian constitution.

 

I'm sorry - I didn't mean you personally. I should have said "If one's..."

 

It's perfectly obvious there are problems.

But the attitude which comes through in discussions like this is that people arrive in Australia, express shock and horror that there are such problems and then assume (a) Australians don't care (b) nothing has been done to solve the problems.

And that's a long, long way from the truth.

[Guest Bleeding Thorn13]

I was born here & raised in this amazing country Australia, before Rose even set foot in this country she was introduced to a good friend of mine who has shared with her a lot of information about her cultural background, and said they will, hold a ceremony for Rose to welcome her into Australia which will be a great honor.

 

In my life time I've worked in government depts, non for profit community groups & social welfare charity organisations supporting people from all diverse cultural backgrounds, having first hand experience working with Indigenous & non indigenous people.

 

There are some saying how they've worked to help these disadvantaged Aboriginal people, but do you have any that you socialise with & are proud to call your friend like I do.

 

There is so much emphasis on division & our society would be better served if we could happily mix, there is so much stereo typing that it discourages people seeing each other as equals, the difference is it's really patronising to Aboriginals to be thought of as either a social problem or a quaint relic of the past.

 

I can't abide the mentality of those who assume they literally have a god given superiority over another race & that is what literally started colonialist history with the Aboriginal peoples, that background cannot be swept under the carpet when discussing the situations of today, so it's relevant that one image on a poster maybe taken from 1906 & the other from 2012 because one situation relates to the historical journey that has brought us to this point in time.

 

A person becomes a 16th Aboriginal from a back ground of rape of ones ancestors, it's not a happy little benefit scam, it's a persons history they are a product of generations of abuse.

 

 

Education is definitely the way forward, I have condemned the media for it's sensationalism, & I understand this situation is a very complex topic, but I think it's especially important to high light it for migrants, it's all very well to acknowledge the support that is offered to the indigenous people, but it's not as Black & White as some people think there are so many grey areas about this subject, but lets not forget that their not recognised in the constitution & still have a substantially lower life expectancy.

 

There has never been a politician who genuinely wanted to make a long lasting change, their only agenda is to be seen to be doing something, whilst doing little, politicians have one true agenda & that is to stay in power.

 

It's sounds like there are some who resent the fact that Indigenous people get these benefits, look what they have endured just to get that, & lets look at the population distribution, the other people throughout Australia who get benefits, there's a big difference in numbers...

[Ellie 2]

I agree whole heartedly with your opinion on racial superiority but that was the way people thought then and we can do nothing about that now. I would hope that today we would all be disgusted with what took place. However, we cannot dwell on history and I feel that in the last 50 odd years Australian Governments have tried to compensate for the wrongs of the past. Many Aboriginals lead happy western style lives others are happy to lead traditional lifestyles but you have those who wish to do neither and there is where the problem lies. Dare I say that many of those are pseudo Aboriginals. I wish I knew the answer.

[Guest Guest16631]

this is part of a painting.........done and given to me from a good friends mother....we have known each other for 20 years.....on the back she has written.................."I pray for peace with all races,this painting is my prayer for reconciliation"......................there are still many who feel not enough has been done and they daily face racism and exclusion ,from a country that belongs to them................there is a midnight oil song.......which chorus is very apt.....................The time has come to say fairs fair.............to pay the rent to pay our share...........................the time has come a facts a fact........................it belongs to them lets give it back.........................!..........................if only the right to have some say in their country ...............![ATTACH=CONFIG]12023[/ATTACH]

[tisme]

There are also many who think enough HAS been done, they are the ones you NEVER hear from.

 

I have 3 very close friends who are quarter caste Aboriginals, one was 'taken' from her family as a baby,and now after 53 years has found her birth family. My other 2 friends grew up as 'cousins' after their mothers were taken from their parents, who were half caste, and were raised in sister Kate's orphanage in Nedlands WA, one of them is an ancestor of Daisy Kadibil, one of the girls depicted in the movie/Documentary The Rabbit Proof Fence. None of them hold any animosity towards anyone for what happened in the past, they have moved forward.

 

As has been previously mentioned, thousands of children fell victim to the Governmment of the day and were forcibly taken, right up to the 1970's babies were being taken from unmarried mothers of any race who gave birth in Australia.

 

Unfortunately there is NO turning back the clock.

[Bobj]

"I think you will find a lot of Aboriginals will "condemn Australia", as you put it, and they've been here a helluva long time!!! ;-) "

 

Are they not being " racist" in a manner of speaking?

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[flag of convenience]

........what many of us forget is that Australia has a black history........and the arrival of the white

Man devastated their way of life............we have tried to force our values and lifestyle on a people who lived in harmony with their land............we brought disease and a way of life totally alien to them and expect them to accept this and be grateful.............they should integrate into........our world adopt our values..............they are on the whole a peaceful people........but as usual a few have taken advantage and used .....a cause ......to create trouble........and although it has brought the situation into the limelight.........it has also incited anger and fear...............what is the solution ?....I don't know..........but as history shows.............if something isn't done to help preserve their culture and way of life............it will disappear forever.......................

 

From my reading of Australian history I seem to recall inter tribal conflict as being much a norm so not sure just how peaceful it was in the past. Perhaps large aspects of the culture has already been lost along with way of life? Although certain traditions prevail. Already a lot of former lifestyle has disappeared likely forever.

 

One aspect with regards to this whole subject that I do note is that no one has an idea and that includes govenrment into any possible solutions.

Anyone that has spent time in The NT be it Alice Springs, Darwin, Katherine or smaller remote places may easily come to a conclusion that a solution will not be forth coming anytime soon nor short term but hopefully sometime for future generations.